Ask Me Help Desk - Second offense? Shoplifting/return fraud

I am not sure if this is considered my second offense or not.

My first time, it was asked on these forums when I shoplifted at Superstore. For that incident I was not charged, no police were present and I was let go. No criminal record, nothing. I was told that the incident will be recorded on my informational profile that police can view. I was then later told by forum members that this does not exist. I am a 21 year old university student in BC, Canada.

This time, I was caught for return fraud (pretending to return an item in the store for which I had a receipt of purchase). Stupid me, but the item that I actually bought was in my backpack at the time.

The police came and arrested me. They asked me about my first incident at Superstore after searching up my profile on their laptop in the car. I thought they would not be aware of that incident due to the answers to my previous post. I have a court date scheduled and am pretty scared to the say the least.

My Questions:
Will the Crown/Court see this as my second offense or first offense?
Will that matter? What is the likely outcome of this scenario?
Should I hire a laywer and how much do they usually cost for cases like this?
What should I do to better my chances at diversion or avoiding a criminal record?

Always have an attorney, they are the best bet for diversion program, This should be first offense.

I don't know where this record is ( and the legality of it) since you were not charged or convicted, there should be no record.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Always have an attorney, they are the best bet for diversion program, This should be first offense.

I don't know where this record is ( and the legality of it) since you were not charged or convicted, there should be no record.

Thanks for the quick reply. I thought they would not have a record as well, but they did. I am not sure if the fact that it was a year ago matters.

Can this record be used against me by the Crown?
I will definitely consult some attorneys for advice if not have one by my side.
With a diversion program (after completing), will I see any trouble traveling to United States?

The total was $80 CAD. Would this impact anything? And to clarify the items I was refunding were textbooks. Not sure if that changes anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noobstar

Thanks for the quick reply. I thought they would not have a record as well, but they did. I am not sure if the fact that it was a year ago matters.

Can this record be used against me by the Crown?
I will definitely consult some attorneys for advice if not have one by my side.
With a diversion program (after completing), will I see any trouble traveling to United States?

The total was $80 CAD. Would this impact anything? And to clarify the items I was refunding were textbooks. Not sure if that changes anything.

My feeling is that the first offense will be mentioned. You were allowed to walk away but apparently it didn't stop the behavior so this time the Crown will want to make sure it makes an impression on you. The details will "probably" not be available. The stop for shoplifting will.

I can tell you the theory in the US - you've been caught twice involved in illegal activities in the past year. That's how many times you were caught, not how many times you committed a crime.

Attorneys charge varying fees, and a lot depends on how many appearances he/she will need to make.

Why would attempting to return textbooks matter?

Thanks Judy

What are my chances at an alternative measures program? A discharge? Criminal record? Jail time?

With an alternative measures program, will this still go on record after completing the program?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noobstar

Thanks Judy

What are my chances at an alternative measures program? A discharge? Criminal record? Jail time?

With an alternative measures program, will this still go on record after completing the program?

All of Canada is similar -

"Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney’s office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Court appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown’s Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision.”

There appears to be a record of your "prior" so I am guessing you don't qualify for diversion.

I would guess, yes, you will have a record (because this is not your first offense) and I will guess a fine and possibly probation.

That's my guess.

Thanks Judy

How long does probation last for theft? What does it consist of and can this be removed off my record?

Does probation mean I have a criminal record but no sentenced jail time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noobstar

Thanks Judy

How long does probation last for theft? What does it consist of and can this be removed off my record?

Does probation mean I have a criminal record but no sentenced jail time?

No way of knowing about probation, the length, because you have a prior. I would expect 6 months or 1 year - if you get probation.

Yes, you will have a criminal record.

Yes, you will get probation INSTEAD of jail time. However, if you violate probation you WILL get jail time.