I have cut the concrete to the existing drain pipe but do not understand how I can insert a new y pipe into it since the existing pipe is not moveable in either direction and you cannot use rubber unions under the concrete.

WE have the answer for that but first a few questions. What size is the pipe? What material is the pipe? What type of wye do you wish to insert? PVC? Other? It's true that rubber couplings underground are a no-no, however, metal shielded couplings (see image) are acceptable.
If you give me the answers I'll come back with a solution

Existing drain pipe is 3" pvc schedule 40
New wye is 3x3x3 pvc sch 40

Appreciate your help

In my area, regular ferncos are allowed underground, but anything above ground needs to be a shielded clamp. The purpose of the shielded clamp is basically for a more ridgid joint connection. A regular rubber clamp is fine underground as long as the pipe is bedded properly. As long as the pipe can't shift, the rubber clamp works just fine. I think Mark has mentioned something along these lines before (may be wrong about that). What do you say Mark?

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A regular rubber clamp is fine underground as long as the pipe is bedded properly.

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And there's them problem. Rubber clamps can shift and bell allowing water to be trapped so they aren't allowed underground in my area. In fact we don't use them at all. Our ground is sand so to bed a pipe properly you would need gravel. That doesn't make much sense when a shielded clamp will do the job. Regards, Tom

As Lee pointed out, I have investigated the all rubber fernco clamps and they are ONLY approved for under ground applications... never to be used above ground even though they are sold everywhere and used above ground by all homeowners... ;)

However, as noted by Tom, each area has different bedding requirements so they may not be allowed in every state.

In terms of Old buck's question, I would prime/cement 4" pieces of pipe into each end of the 3" wye and then measure the overall length of the fitting including the cemented pieces and then add 1/2" to that measure and mark that measurement out on the pipe (the 1/2" is added to allow for the rubber clamp ribs inside the rubber sleeve). Next, cut the pipe at those marks... nice straight cuts. Next, slide the shielded part of the clamps over the ends of the cut pipe, if possible (or you can just install them by unscrewing them and putting them in place later), and then put the rubber sleevs over the pipes sticking out of the fitting and then FLIP THE RUBBERS BACK ON THEMSELVES... in this manner you simply drop the fitting/rubber sleevs into place and then flip the rubber sleeves back and onto the existing pipe in place. Install the shielded clamps and tighten appropriately... be sure to check that the branch of the wye has some pitch to it.

See example of 12" fitting below.

Good luck!

Mark

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. And great desription of the proper way to do the job. Take care.

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Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

In my area, regular ferncos are allowed underground, but anything above ground needs to be a shielded clamp. The purpose of the shielded clamp is basically for a more ridgid joint connection. A regular rubber clamp is fine underground as long as the pipe is bedded properly. As long as the pipe can't shift, the rubber clamp works just fine. I think Mark has mentioned something along these lines before (may be wrong about that). What do you say Mark?

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I am not sure what a "ferco" is but if it is the rubber connection, I do not believe they are allowed underground in my county.

I will double check with Bldg Dept on Tues. If I can use them then installation will be rather simple.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

As Lee pointed out, I have investigated the all rubber fernco clamps and they are ONLY approved for under ground applications...never to be used above ground even though they are sold everywhere and used above ground by all homeowners...;)

However, as noted by Tom, each area has different bedding requirements so they may not be allowed in every state.

In terms of Old buck's question, I would prime/cement 4" pieces of pipe into each end of the 3" wye and then measure the overall length of the fitting including the cemented pieces and then add 1/2" to that measure and mark that measurement out on the pipe (the 1/2" is added to allow for the rubber clamp ribs inside the rubber sleeve). Next, cut the pipe at those marks...nice straight cuts. Next, slide the shielded part of the clamps over the ends of the cut pipe, if possible (or you can just install them by unscrewing them and putting them in place later), and then put the rubber sleevs over the pipes sticking out of the fitting and then FLIP THE RUBBERS BACK ON THEMSELVES...in this manner you simply drop the fitting/rubber sleevs into place and then flip the rubber sleeves back and onto the existing pipe in place. Install the shielded clamps and tighten appropriately...be sure to check that the branch of the wye has some pitch to it.

See example of 12" fitting below.

Good luck!

Mark

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I do not believe I am allowed to use rubber connectors underground in my county which is why I am having trouble figuring out how to install the wye.
Originally before I cut the concrete (and of course where I was going to cut into the drain is at the far end of 20 feet of cutting), I was planning to cut the horizontal drain pipe and an existing and exposed vertical pipe. This would have allowed the necessary movement. When I got to the end, however, there are two very close side by side drains and the front one does not connect to the vertical stack.
Thus my dilema.
I will check with my Bldg Dept on Tues about the rubber connectors which would also solve my problem but I don't think they are going to approve the rubber.
Thanks for your input.
OldBuck

Hey Buck,
In my post #2 I showed a shielded metal coupling.

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rubber connectors which would also solve my problem

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A shielded metal coupling would be just as easy to install and give you a ridged connection instead of a flexible one, I'm still trying to figure why Mark and Dad ( which I consider to be top of the line plumbers) prefer rubber connections under ground instead of metal ones.
When I'm running sewer line or inserting a fitting I want a ridged connection. Not a flexible one. Mark gave you a great solution on inserting the wye. I would have eliminated a step by using a street wye in place of a regular one. Good luck Buck and go with the metal shielded couplings. Tom

Hi Guys!

If Tom and Oldbuck reread my post carefully they will see that I only mentioned that the all rubber clamps are made to be used underground only... I never suggested using them here or anywhere for that matter... only that they are allowed underground in some states.

Further, in my explanation to Oldbuck on how to do the installation I clearly mention the shielded part of the shielded clamps as sliding over the cut ends of the pipe. In fact, in my last sentence of the instructions I state, "Install the shielded clamps and tighten appropriately". I figured the distinction between all rubber clamps and the shielded clamp were clear for you Oldbuck as Tom had posted a picture of and described the shielded clamp. So, I hope it is now clear that I do NOT recommend the all rubber clamps, but the shielded clamps for this application.

One other option not mentioned here that is actually much harder than it will sound would be to use two 3" PVC SLIP COUPLINGS. Here, you slide the slip couplings onto the cut pipe ends pushing them back out of the way and then you prime/cement everything and slide the slip couplings into place over the wye fitting. The issue is that "sliding" the couplings usually involves a hammer and a piece of wood and you can't twist the couplings either so the seal isn't always best! I still strongly recommend the shielded clamps here as I know these will be the easiest and best result for you!

Finally, Oldbuck, your country/state will most definitely allow the shielded clamps as they are really the ONLY way you can do this job. Note also that they may allow the all rubber clamps, but I wouldn't use them unless required.

Hope that cleared all this up!

Mark

Thanks for the clearifactioin Mark. I just don't see the advantage of using rubber couplings any where, It just sounded like you approved using them, If I was mistaken you have my apology. And if there is a advantage to using rubber couplings I'm waiting to hear it. Cheers, Tom

I see absolutely no advantage to them. I simply noted a fact: that these all rubber couplings are manufactured and approved by code in most states for underground use ONLY. I always think it is funny that they are manufactured and approved for underground use but are almost always used above ground by homeowners that simply don't know better. By the way, they are NOT code approved in my state for anything, but they are still sold at all home improvement stores... go figure, huh?

My bad! You're still the best!! Cheers, Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Hey Buck,
In my post #2 I showed a shielded metal coupling. A shielded metal coupling would be just as easy to install and give you a ridged connection instead of a flexible one, I'm still trying to figure why Mark and Dad ( which I consider to be top of the line plumbers) prefer rubber connections under ground instead of metal ones.
When I'm running sewer line or inserting a fitting I want a ridged connection. not a flexible one. Mark gave you a great solution on inserting the wye., I would have eliminated a step by using a street wye in place of a regular one. Good luck Buck and go with the metal shielded couplings. Tom

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I will use the metal shield if the Bldg Dept says it is acceptable.
Will have to wait until tomorrow to find out.
Thanks,
OldBuck

I agree with Tom and Mark on this. Shielded is really the best bet underground, whether regular rubber is allowed or not.

Tom, I was also just stating what the code is in my area, sorry for the confusion.

OldBuck, if they don't allow any type of rubber clamp, or shielded clamp in your area (hard to believe they won't at least allow the shieled), then your only other option would be a pvc repair coupling. This is basically a pvc coupling without the ridge on the inside that the pipe go up against. If you go this route, it would be best to have two people when setting this all together, as you must do it extremely fast (before the glue starts to take hold) and you need to mark exactly where the coupling needs to be located so it is centered on the pipes.

Hey Lee

Actually, I mentioned the repair couplings (PVC slip couplings in post #11), but I don't blame you for not noticing as it was a very lonngggg post... :)

Mark

Yep, I missed that, Mark. Sorry. Ive got some work to do on my "skimming over" skills. But hey, at least I know we were thinking alike. Not a bad thing.

Thanks for the update. I say Tom and Mark did well on this one. Take care and let us know how it all turns out.

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Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

I agree with Tom and Mark on this. Shielded is really the best bet underground, whether regular rubber is allowed or not.

Tom, I was also just stating what the code is in my area, sorry for the confusion.

OldBuck, if they dont allow any type of rubber clamp, or shielded clamp in your area (hard to believe they wont at least allow the shieled), then your only other option would be a pvc repair coupling. This is basically a pvc coupling without the ridge on the inside that the pipe go up against. If you go this route, it would be best to have two people when setting this all together, as you must do it extremely fast (before the glue starts to take hold) and you need to mark exactly where the coupling needs to be located so it is centered on the pipes.

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We can use the rubber with the stainless steel collar.
We thought we couldn't use that and thus our original dilema.

Thanks to all for their help and suggestions. I should get it all done tomorrow and be ready for inspection on Fri.