Ask Me Help Desk - When should it be called infidelity?

I'm sure this is a question many of you have encountered and considered. I have myself been thinking about this quite a bit and find it to be difficult to draw a line. Today the internet allows for many new forms of connection between people. These generate some gray area that didn't exist for consideration when many people first formulated their ideas of unfaithfulness in a relationship.

I'll attempt to outline some scenarios I considered (by no means an exhaustive list) and am interested to see where people think that the line between personal enjoyment and infidelity has been crossed. I tried to list some things here in an order that I think is escalation, but this is opinion and even then, some things I found hard to rank.

Non-physical/Emotional Acts:

1. Online (or other electronic) communication with another where the content is extremely personal.
2. Electronic communication with another where the content is sexual.
3. Electronic communication where the content is both personal and sexual.
4. (1-3 with an acquaintance? A friend? A person you see every day? What about frequency of communication? Years of personal communication with another when committed/married?)

Physical:

1. Masturbating.
2. Masturbating while fantasizing about another individual.
3. Viewing pornography and masturbating.
4. Viewing 'live' pornography of a couple on the internet.
5. Viewing live pornography of one individual.
6. Viewing live pornography of one individual that lives locally.
7. Viewing live pornography of one individual and allowing them to see you masturbating via webcam.
8. Viewing live pornography of one individual as they perform acts that you choose (say by category).
9. Viewing live pornography of one individual as they perform acts that you dictate.
10. Watching a live member of the opposite sex in an erotic show (i.e. stripclub).
11. Watching (but not touching) a paid sex worker doing sexual things.
12. Watching (but not touching) a paid sex worker doing sexual things and while your partner masturbates.
13. Kissing a paid sex worker (assuming this would happen).
14. Engaging in sexual contact with a paid sex worker but not having any form of intercourse.
15. Engaging in oral sex with sex worker, but not intercourse.
16. Anal intercourse with sex worker, but not vaginal.
17. Any and all forms of sex act with another individual.
18. Sex acts with more than one outside partner.
19. (What about acts 10-18 not with a paid sex worker, but with a willing acquaintance? A friend?)

I've seen parts of this before - is this homework, something else?

I have no idea where you would have seen this before because I came up with it entirely without consulting any form of outside information. It's also not any form of homework or anything like that. I am asking because I am genuinely interested in people's thoughts and opinions regarding the matter.

Non-physical/Emotional Acts:

2. Electronic communication with another where the content is sexual.
3. Electronic communication where the content is both personal and sexual.
4. (1-3 with an acquaintance? A friend? A person you see every day? What about frequency of communication? Years of personal communication with another when committed/married?)

Physical

7. Viewing live pornography of one individual and allowing them to see you masturbating via webcam.
8. Viewing live pornography of one individual as they perform acts that you choose (say by category).
9. Viewing live pornography of one individual as they perform acts that you dictate.
12. Watching (but not touching) a paid sex worker doing sexual things and while your partner masturbates.
13. Kissing a paid sex worker (assuming this would happen).
14. Engaging in sexual contact with a paid sex worker but not having any form of intercourse.
15. Engaging in oral sex with sex worker, but not intercourse.
16. Anal intercourse with sex worker, but not vaginal.
17. Any and all forms of sex act with another individual.
18. Sex acts with more than one outside partner.
19. (What about acts 10-18 not with a paid sex worker, but with a willing acquaintance? A friend?)

These are the things I would object too, and probably wouldn't tolerate. Doesn't matter with who,friend acquantance, sex worker, stranger, co worker.

I am incapable and unwilling to answer such a list. The first thought that pops into my mind is the nature of the relationship I'm being unfaithful to. Is my mate in a 20 year coma, or dying slowly and wants me to do unfaithful acts while not being unfaithful at all? Or even just one of the many ordinary scenarios that happen every day, where the lines are blurred and each one needs to be taken in context.

To every thing, there is a season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I've seen parts of this before - is this homework, something else?

I know backpack, no, it would not be homework

Sorry, backpack, that is all beyond my comprehension; I don't have any kind of relationshiip now I can refer to so it is difficult to even think of answers to your questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tickle

I know backpack, no, it would not be homework

It just seemed like a lot of work for no reason other than "I wonder." Your recommendation tips the scales for me and so, if I sounded overly suspicious, I apologize.

I have seen something similar, but I can't find it - I believe it focused more on Internet "relatonships."

This is something that I have wondered about for a while just because it seemed like such a difficult question to answer. I outlined the above steps because I think the differences between one action and the next don't ever seem too major, but there is a point where one partner will see a problem and be bothered.

My curiousity was further increased because a married couple I know well (together 30 years) is currently dealing with the fall out of an 'emotional affair.' It was intermittent but lasted years. Almost all communication taking place indirectly (letters, phone calls, emails, social networking sites, etc. ) where they met in person only a couple of times and were never physically intimate. This wasn't the typical idea of infidelity or an affair, yet, the problems that it caused in the marriage were/are very damaging.

When I tried to formulate an idea of what an affair is, I thought at first it's when you feel the need to hide something from your partner out of guilt or fear (but that's not always true). So then it's infidelity if your relationship with this other person, emotional or physical, is hurtful to your partner (also not always true). So to what depth can a relationship with an outside person go or to what extent is a partner "allowed" to seek connection with another individual before you would call it infidelity?

I think this is meant for discussion. Am I right?

The internet world is fairly new to me. Having friends that I've never met in person, only met online, is also fairly new to me. In fact, AMHD is the reason I have "online" friends. I've been on AMHD for more than 4 years.

If you go to my Facebook account, I have over 100 friends. The majority of those friends are people I met on AMHD. Here's the kicker. My daughter's birthday was yesterday. The only people that posted "happy birthday" to her, or commented on my post about her birthday, were the friends I made on AMHD. Not one of my family (and I do have family on fb), posted a happy birthday to my daughter.

The friends you make online are very real. Very very real. Until you experience it, you will never understand. Before I experienced it I used to think that people that considered people they met online as "friends" were nuts, or needed to get out more.

I realize that you're asking about sexual contact, things that cross the line when you're in a committed relationship. I am married, have been for 17 years. I've never crossed the line (my line), but I do flirt, have flirted with probably every male, and female (I'm not even bi curious) on this site, and on Facebook. Is it serious? No. Do the people that I flirt with know about my marriage, and my commitment, and the fact that I don't cheat? Yes.

Your list is vague in some ways. Where do you draw the line? Is flirting taboo? For some people it is. Is online flirting taboo? Again, for some people it is. Is masturbating when thinking of someone other than you significant other taboo? For some people it is. This is very much an individual, and couple, thing. No two people, and no two couples are the same.

I've flirted, even posted sexual things to people here. My husband read all the things I posted. We don't have an open marriage. But, it's online, it's innocent. Then again, that's us. I don't cheat, he doesn't cheat. We love each other, and we're committed to each other. Is flirting cheating? Not to us.

So, my answer is. It depends on the person, the relationship they're in, and what they consider cheating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alty

I think this is meant for discussion. Am I right?

I realize that you're asking about sexual contact, things that cross the line when you're in a committed relationship. I am married, have been for 17 years. I've never crossed the line (my line) ...

I think Alty hit it on the head here - the "my line" reference says it all.

Everyone has different and personal boundaries. I also think it depends on the relationship, and the boundaries in that particular relationship.

I try not to do or say anything that a third party would come upon and think was inappropriate. As far as FB and other social media I get surveillances which involve a history - everything is fine, both parties are posting to other people on line, it's joking, it's flirting. The relationship gets rocky for whatever reason and suddenly those very posts are ammunition.

I'm not guessing. I see what can happen. Of course, no one can lead his/her life looking over his/her shoulder.

For me emotional cheating is every bit (and perhaps more) devastating than physical cheating. Sharing your concerns and feelings with a third party is, in my eyes, a betrayal.

But, again, that's just me.

I have posted this before - I have a dear, dear friend who has a marvelous voice, sultry, downright sexy. She used to do voice overs. She's worked for a "meet people" (which translates to sexual conversation) chat line for some years. I've known her for years, from my NYC days, and we have had the conversation many times whether the people who call her to "chat" are cheating. We've never come to a conclusion.

She says she provides a needed service. In theory people who call her and masturbate don't need to go and seek a "physical" partner. I don't necessarily agree. It makes for great discussions.

So there's another aspect here.

I expect that the answer to this varies greatly from individual to individual, couple to couple, and that there is no one universal answer. I was just interested in seeing where people would draw a line, if they did at all, and what would make the difference for them. There's some good food for thought here. Thanks for the responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by backpack2389

I expect that the answer to this varies greatly from individual to individual, couple to couple, and that there is no one universal answer. I was just interested in seeing where people would draw a line, if they did at all, and what would make the difference for them. There's some good food for thought here. Thanks for the responses.

No one EVER comes back, let alone to say thanks. On my behalf, thanks.

And, yes, it was interesting, good conversation.