Ask Me Help Desk - Can I modify a Kentucky court order for custody in Michigan where my child is living?

Where to begin... Ok... Here is the situation:

Background info:

In 2007 the courts in Kentucky gave custodial rights to her mother. I was given visitation and I am the NCP. Her mother has always lived in Kentucky. I on the other hand live in Michigan. In December 2009, my daughters' mother called me up on a Friday and said that if I didn't come get my daughter by Monday she was going to put her in a foster home on Monday. She was sick and tired of "dealing" with my daughter (which was only 11 yrs old). I asked her mother if she was sure this is what she wanted. I love my daughter and obviously want my daughter too. She said "YES". I purchased a ticket and my daughters mother took her to the airport in Louisville, KY and put her on the plane. Her mother did go down to the friend of the court and stopped them from collecting child support from me ($577 mth)

Here is the situation:

From the time she gave our daughter to me, I asked her to sign an "Agreed Order" and get it notarized so I can give it to the courts in Kentucky. The agreed order that I typed up was just a flip of the current order, but I added in the order that she didn't have to pay child support as long as she helped to maintain health insurance and buy clothes from time to time. She would always say "I will give it to my attorney to look over" and never do anything with it.
In March 2012, her mother lost her job and now doesn't have my daughter under any insurance plan. I do work, but am not rich by any means, but I did go to the state of Michigan and they gave my daughter insurance. But now since her mother isn't working and only drawing unemployment of ($420wk) she is now looking back to her daughter and is wanting her back. I am sure, like in 2007, it is mainly for the child support.
In June, because (long story short) my daughter was going to counseling and seeing a therapist... Custody became an issue with them. I was told that I needed to have the court order changed to where I am the custodial parent and her mom is the NCP. I again gave the agreed order to her mother and told her that I needed this done. Her mother came straight outright and said I will never sign it. I love my daughter and I spent too much money before getting custody of her. I told her, It is a piece of paper to you. I am the one the one that has been raising her for the past 2.5 yrs.
She said she refused to sign it because she spent over $3,000.00 in attorney fees in 2007, and she wants our daughter to come live with her so she can get support from the state and claim her on her taxes. ( I have claimed my daughter for 2010 and 2011). Basically I feel like her mother wants her for a meal ticket. My daughter is now 13 (almost 14) and has lives and resided in Michigan for the past 2.5 yrs and is considered a Michigan resident. Oh yeah... I forgot to mention that her mother is an alcoholic and that is the reason for her going to therapy.

FINALLY... MY QUESTION:

What can I do to make her mother either sign the agreed order or to modify it?

I was told that since I have school records and medical records of my daughter living in MI for the last 2.5 yrs, my daughter is considered a MI resident and I can have the courts here do it. But do I have them modify it? Do I start from scratch?

I was reading and I read that MI would be her Home state, but some of what I read said that since the order was originally made in KY, I would have to modify it there or make a motion to change the venue to MI since that is where my daughter is a resident of. But I also read something about ACCJEA would this Act over rule KY and let MI have jurisdiction over the case?

Could someone please give some advice as to what I should do and how to do it? I don't have money to hire an attorney. I do own my own home. Her mother stays with friends and family and does not have a stable home. This is why I think she wants to use my daughter for too... get state or federal housing.

Thanks in advance for any advice you have to offer... also BTW... If I have to go through all this again... I will ask for support. Her mother had me pay child support of $577 mth. When I wasn't even working, maybe she will know what it feels like. I am a great father and have a great daughter. But her mothers actions and drinking and calling at 2am drunk is taking its toll on my daughter. I feel so bad for my daughter. I hate it when a dead beat parent uses a child as a tool in life. My daughter or any child shouldn't have to deal with this stuff and be put in the middle. My daughter told me and her mother that she loves it here and she has a stable home.

Fred, I wouldn't attempt this without an Attorney.

I never heard of anyone signing a prepared Order. Are you talking about something the Court issues? Something else? It's meaningless if there is a Court Order somewhere - a Court only can ONLY be modified by a Court Order.

If/when you go back to Court this will be decided in the best interest of the child, not where she prefers to live.

Why did you wait 2.5 years to do something about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmbush

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What can I do to make her mother either sign the agreed order or to modify it?
...

If she won't agree to such an order, you will need to file a motion with the court and ask the court to rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmbush

...
I was told that ... my daughter is considered a MI resident and I can have the courts here do it. But do I have them modify it? Do I start from scratch?

I was reading and I read that MI would be her HOMESTATE, but some of what I read said that since the order was originally made in KY, I would have to modify it there or make a motion to change the venue to MI since that is where my daughter is a resident of. But I also read something about ACCJEA would this Act over rule KY and let MI have jurisdiction over the case?
...

UCCJEA, the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act does apply, for sure, but it means that the Kentucky courts will continue to have jurisdiction as long as one parent remains in Kentucky. You will have to file your action in Kentucky.

I thought I had responded to this. Weird, several of my posts seem to be getting lost.

Anyway, under the UCCJEA jurisdiction rests with court that issued the original order as long as one parent remains in that jurisdiction. You can try to get it moved, but I doubt if it will fly.

You should have filed for a change in custody immediately. Not sure why you waited. However, I think you need to get a copy of the ruling that ended child support. That may be enough to show the change in custody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I thought I had responded to this. wierd, several of my posts seem to be getting lost.

Same thing just happened to me twice - I don't think the posts were pulled. They just never posted.

Odd -

Anyway, I'm frustrated enough to actually go and do some work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Fred, I wouldn't attempt this without an Attorney.

I never heard of anyone signing a prepared Order. Are you talking about something the Court issues? Something else? It's meaningless if there is a Court Order somewhere - a Court only can ONLY be modified by a Court Order.

If/when you go back to Court this will be decided in the best interest of the child, not where she prefers to live.

why did you wait 2.5 years to do something about this?

Judy,

Thanks for your input. What the county attorney in Kentucky told is to do is write up an "AGREED ORDER" you called it prepared order... maybe the same, just different terminology? Well either way, she told me the other day that she refuses to do it because she doesn't want to give me custody. I told her, "What are you talking about? I have had custody of her for the last 2.5 yrs. You gave up on here and gave her to me! The order to me is basically a legal piece of paper. I never really worried about it until just recently when I took my daughter for therapy (she has ADHD and other issues that mostly has to deal with her and how she thinks and deals with her mother (my ex)). When I went there, they basically looked at me with a look and attitude that who are you? You say you are her father, but have nothing to prove that you have authority to have her treated. So that is what prompted the change.
Now her mother doesn't have a job, is basically homeless (lives with family members and men that she meets at the bar) and an alcoholic. When it comes to the issue of having her mother still living in KY... yes she does, but doesn't have a place she lays her head down for more than a couple nights at a time... So that is why I thought maybe I could do a change of venue from KY to MI. Plus my daughters' therapist has a sister that is a lawyer and she said that even though it was ruled on originally in KY, because my daughter has been in MI for more than 2 yrs and has records to prove it... I can do this in MI instead of KY. But her disclaimer was that she doesn't practice this line of legal work and she would check with someone else that deals with family law on a daily basis. My trouble is I just make enough money to get by and pay my bills and provide for my daughter (ever have a teenage daughter? They don't want wal-mart brand things lol) so I can't really afford the money for an attorney here. I don't really want her mothers money (or a lack of) either. I just think her mother needs to do the responsible thing and switch the order. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I thought I had responded to this. wierd, several of my posts seem to be getting lost.

Anyway, under the UCCJEA jurisdiction rests with court that issued the original order as long as one parent remains in that jurisdiction. You can try to get it moved, but I doubt if it will fly.

You should have filed for a change in custody immediately. Not sure why you waited. However, I think you need to get a copy of the ruling that ended child support. That may be enough to show the change in custody.

Scott,

Thanks for your response. From what I read I want to agree with you about the UCCJEA, but in my readings on it (internet) there seems to be some sort of thing about support or something of her mother. They talk about visits, and her mother only gets to see our daughter about 7 days a year (by her choice). Just 2 weeks ago I took my daughter down to KY to see her mother. Her mother saw her on Saturday and then took off with some friends to Myrtle Beach for 5 days and then saw her on the last day were there (the following Sunday). I think it would be obvious to the courts where the mothers priorities lay. They say actions speak louder than words :) Plus my daughters' therapist said her sister said there is something about my daughter being up here for over 2 yrs does something to the UCCJEA, but she wasn't exactly sure because she doesn't focus her legal career in the famliy law. Does anyone know what that 2 yrs could be or mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

If she won't agree to such an order, you will need to file a motion with the court and ask the court to rule.

UCCJEA, the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act does apply, for sure, but it means that the Kentucky courts will continue to have jurisdiction as long as one parent remains in Kentucky. You will have to file your action in Kentucky.

AK,

Thanks for your advise and response. You can read what I wrote Scott and respond to that if you would?

Thanks in advance,
Frederick

I guess I'm tough - if my (step) children want something from other than Wal-Mart (or any other store) and I can't afford it they get Wal-Mart stuff.

I think you have to PROVE what you said in Court - if the therapist can give testimony that your daughter is safer/happier with you than with her mother, that will carry a lot of weight.

I never count on anything being obvious to the Court.

You really do need an Attorney - and I know the economy is brutal. You might get one chance to do this. Don't throw it away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmbush

AK,

Thanks for your advise and response. You can read what I wrote Scott and respond to that if you would?

Thanks in advance,
Frederick

I have read it. You write, for example that

"... my daughters' therapist said her sister said there is something about my daughter being up here for over 2 yrs does something to the UCCJEA, but she wasn't exactly sure because she doesn't focus her legal career in the famliy law. ..."

Please forgive me, but it's amusing that you are relying on double hearsay. The truest part of what therapist's sister reputedly said is that she doesn't "focus" on family law. :) Read the UCCJEA yourself, and you will probably understand what we are telling you.

What you posted has nothing to do with where jurisdiction lies.While it has a lot to do with who should have custody, that's a different argument once you know what court to argue it in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I guess I'm tough - if my (step) children want something from other than Wal-Mart (or any other store) and I can't afford it they get Wal-Mart stuff.

I think you have to PROVE what you said in Court - if the therapist can give testimony that your daughter is safer/happier with you than with her mother, that will carry a lot of weight.

I never count on anything being obvious to the Court.

You really do need an Attorney - and I know the economy is brutal. You might get one chance to do this. Don't throw it away.

Judy,

You are so right about never counting on anything being obvious in the court. I learned that when we originally went to court and her mother showed up drunk to court and after my attorney pointed it out and when the judge asked her about it... she said that she was sick and had been taking liquid cold medication. LoL I was like yeah.. right... but the judge didn't say anything more about it moved on and bought it.
I am going to look for an Attorney here in Michigan and see what they say. I pretty much get the feeling that I will have to hire an attorney in KY though, which makes it difficult on me being 400 miles away. My original attorney retired and moved away :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

What you posted has nothing to do with where jurisdiction lies.While it has a lot to do with who should have custody, that's a different argument once you know what court to argue it in.

Scott,

Maybe I am wrong in thinking this... But when the judge hears both sides of the story, I think one thing will remain a huge question in his head. That is "The mother gave her to the father or was going to put in a foster home" I think this will stick out a lot in the judges head. Her mother gave me custody and refuses to change custody on paper(court order).

Have a great and safe 4th ofJuly

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

I have read it. You write, for example that

"... my daughters' therapist said her sister said there is something about my daughter being up here for over 2 yrs does something to the UCCJEA, but she wasn't exactly sure because she doesn't focus her legal career in the famliy law. ..."

Please forgive me, but it's amusing that you are relying on double hearsay. The truest part of what therapist's sister reputedly said is that she doesn't "focus" on family law. :) Read the UCCJEA yourself, and you will probably understand what we are telling you.

AK,

You are correct about the double hear say. Everyone knows where hear say will get you in a court of law... objections and not taking into consideration :)

I am going to check with a lawyer here in MI. Maybe the "significant connection" can be argued against the State of Kentucky and it can be transferred to Michigan?

I did read up on and some states say that "significant connection" doesn't matter if the child and at least one parent lives out of state and no medical or education has been done in the old state where the order was originally done?

Have a safe and wonderful 4th of July tomorrow!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmbush

Scott,

Maybe I am wrong in thinking this.... But when the judge hears both sides of the story, I think one thing will remain a huge question in his head. That is "The mother gave her to the father or was going to put in a foster home" I think this will stick out a lot in the judges head. Her mother gave me custody and refuses to change custody on paper(court order).

Have a great and safe 4th ofJuly

Again, That has nothing to do with jurisdiction. But you don't need to hire a KY lawyer. You retain a MI lawyer with an affiliate in KY.

But you really need to separate the issue of who deserves custody with the issue of jurisdiction. I will not argue that a court should award you custody. I think you have made a good case for that. But I will argue that KY retains jurisdiction and will do so as long as the mother resides there.