We have stopped talking about PIGS and started talking about BRICs the next big reason why it is all doom and gloom. I am fed up with the media who just have to find some reason why the roof is falling in. India and China have recently shown some slowing economically, no doubt a response to Europe's slowdown so now failure in these economies is predicted along with Russia and Brazil because they are over exposed to some aspect of economic activity, mean time the great debate here is whether we should also become a farm for China, no doom and gloom there.

We have a lot of sayings about BRIC's here but as far as I'm concerned it's all BRIC BATS to the media

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, mean time the great debate here is whether we should also become a farm for China

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With zero growth there is no surprise that their demand for your mineral resources is way down. But slow economy or not ,the Chinese still have to feed their people.

I don't see good economic times ahead . Governments that tried stimulus find there is no market for the debt they created . They are forcing the "banks too big to fail " to purchase their reckless debt .Meanwhile the Obots think we should double down and stimulate some more.
I don't see a re-creation of the Weimar Republic... yet . But I see a 1970s stagflation as a very real possibility . We are probably there already if the government would stop lying about inflation.

Oh yeah... the BRICs ? They were only going to be emerging economies so long as there were markets for their goods.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Oh yeah ...the BRICs ? They were only going to be emerging economies so long as there were markets for their goods.

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Maybe, maybe not, we could have said the same of your economy and mine a hundred years ago, but we emerged into some sort of post industrial age where you can have someoneelse do the hard work. Russia is much like my own country, it has its minerals and so markets no matter what the outcome and India and China have vast internal markets bigger even than we can imagine, but Brazil perhaps they can become the supplier of the hispanics.

I personally don't think they will fail, I think it is all hype, they will slow but they can recover quicker than the developed world, they don't have the same cost burdens, nor do they have the nany state, and whatever happens they need infurstructure.

I am more concerned with what is happening in developed countries, I cannot imagine what the outcome of default might be. The Irish seem to have weathered the storm but the others don't seem to possess the will.


What we all need is a rest from bad news, we need to see some upturns in the cycles and not talking down a sign of growth as was done this week as if we have any control over it

What sign of growth was that ? Here we had another month of effective no growth and pathetic job numbers. The 99 weeks of extended unemployment benefits are running out here... so people have switched their strategery and are going on 'disability ' . The only growth here is for people distributing food stamps.
We have tried centralgovernment driven stimulus .It's time to return to free market principles.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What sign of growth was that ? Here we had another month of effective no growth and pathetic job numbers. The 99 weeks of extended unemployment benefits are running out here ... so people have switched their strategery and are going on 'disability ' . The only growth here is for people distributing food stamps.
We have tried centralgovernment driven stimulus .It's time to return to free market principles.

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You had growth in jobs it wasn't great but it was an improvement, your free market principles have failed because there is no money. The capitalists with the money don't have the confidence to invest. You are looking for instant Tom and the days of instant have gone. You built all those potemkin macmansions and you can't sell them, you can't even give them away and you wonder why the economy is sluggish, that's the free market for you, boom and bust and this is a bust. It is sad that the economy won't respond it needs some structural adjustment and you won't get that out of the free market. I think the structural adjustment yiou need at the moment is to stop breeding, perhaps free distribution of contraceptives. There is a way you could solve your deficit problems, legalise drugs and have the government take over distribution, tax it and put some money into rehab, a growth industry, those billions would bail you out in no time and you wouldn't have to increase taxes, and you could cut the cost of prisons

You are all over the map Sentencing reform ? It works without legalizing dangerous drugs. We have done it here in NY and now former State pen properties are up for sale.
Surplus of workers ? A very debatable position. But if we have too many unskilled workers in the force then enforcing immigration laws would solve that .

Ironically ,I think a big part of the housing problem in this country is that the baby boom generation is retiring and wants to sell off their properties. That partly explains the glut of inventory on the market. If that is the case then population replacement would be the answer.

The capitalists aren't investing because there is a huge issue here in regime uncertainty . We are looking at the mother of all tax increases at the end of the 4th Qtr. This year unless the Bush era taxes are extended. On top of that ;we have an administration that keeps threatening more burdensome regulations .
We don't want the central planning "structural adjustments " you favor. You will see that in November when the Presidency gets redistributed .


By the way ;is part of that restructuring forcing the banks to purchase all this debt the government generates ? Or maybe you think the banks are willingly buying up sovereign debt at rediculously low rates while foreign investors are bailing out ?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47633576

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Originally Posted by tomder55

you are all over the map Sentencing reform ? It works without legalizing dangerous drugs. We have done it here in NY and now former State pen properties are up for sale.
Surplus of workers ? A very debatable position. But if we have too many unskilled workers in the force then enforcing immigration laws would solve that .

Ironically ,I think a big part of the housing problem in this country is that the baby boom generation is retiring and wants to sell off their properties. That partly explains the glut of inventory on the market. If that is the case then population replacement would be the answer.

The capitalists aren't investing because there is a huge issue here in regime uncertainty . We are looking at the mother of all tax increases at the end of the 4th Qtr. this year unless the Bush era taxes are extended. On top of that ;we have an administration that keeps threatening more burdensome regulations .
We don't want the central planning "structural adjustments " you favor. You will see that in november when the Presidency gets redistributed .


btw ;is part of that restructuring forcing the banks to purchase all this debt the government generates ? Or maybe you think the banks are willingly buying up sovereign debt at rediculously low rates while foreign investors are bailing out ?
News Headlines

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You are working hard at putting words in my mouth Tom I said nothing about sentencing reform although dropping that stupid three strikes rule might do a lot to empty prisons. That rule alone has caused your prison population to grow without lessening the number of offences. You think regime uncertainty is a problem but it never stopped capitalists investing before and a little tax increase, well, we know that can't happen while the republicans hold the upper hand. Perhaps you are fearful they will loose and Bush's largesse, and economy stimulating you hate so much, will expire. If all those baby boomers are retiring that should loosen up the job market, but reality is they probably can't afford to retire. Your housing glut is the result of capitalst speculation ,Tom, they built the wrong product in the wrong place. It is reported that that glut is 40 million properties you will need a lot of immigration to overcome that. Tell you what, we have a housing shortage, caused by immigration, why don't you ship some of those houses over here. You keep thinking in terms of growth but growth can't just go on forever. You think your unskilled workers come from immigration, like your people are naturally gifted but the reality is your education system has failed, you're turning out dropouts who won't do meniel work. When the model is flawed it needs structural adjustment, those unskilled workers need to be trained. I have a suggestion for you, form a national task force, induct them into the army, train them and give them national projects to complete. There must be a lot of roads and bridges needing work, a fence to build along the border, derelict buildings to tear down, tornado ravaged towns to rebuild, you could underground all your electricity assets that would tornado proof them, you could even build a stairway to the stars, where is that can do attitude oh I forgot you don't want to sound like Obama and you wouldn't want to do anything that might be thought socialist

Back on theme I observe the first part of the BRIC is unravelling, China lowered interest rates for the first time in four years

That's because they plan on continue playing 'beggar thy neighbor' . BTW What do you think of the 'cow's tongue ' ?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NEnBLhxqVC...chinaclaim.gif

I caution you... that cow has a very long tongue and is developing naval assets to impose it.

What a piece of reversist rhetoric, China sailed those seas for thousands of years before the US came along and developed its naval assets to impose its will in the Pacific. It was not for nothing that Japan destroyed the US fleet, they feared the long reach of the US and I don't doubt that China has learned from history and understands the US renewed interest in the Pacific and Asia, but you really need to get all this in perspective, Chinese military spending is a fraction of that of the US and in line with other countries as a percentage of GDP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
You want to complain about military expenditures ask yourself what Saudi Arabia is on about as a percentage of GDP it outstrips the US almost three to one
You might also get some perspective on relevant and relative naval strength
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...vice_worldwide

Clete ;the US has treaty obligations around the world. Of course our military expenditures are higher.

Tom others have treaty obligations and meet them without having standing forces that outnumber everyone else. US expenditure on the military is twice the % of GDP that it's partners in NATO and other treaties incur, even China with its supposed buildup incurs expenditure at half the level of the US. The reality is that the US projects its power in a manner no other nation does, it behaves like an imperial power of the early twentieth century.

I have no doubt this causes great strain on the US economy and no doubt it is justified on the basis of the industries and local economies it supports, but it is unrealistic to think you can respond to every threat with a massive response and a carrier task force

Enjoy Pax Sinica . I'm sure you'll make a great puppet nation.

Tom we are past the xenophobia of the yellow peril no doubt encouraged by the US who continue with this outmoded idea. We are a small nation but never a puppet. We understand that like yourselves we might be unable to stand against the tide but then so was King Canute. We also understand that there are easier and closer targets than ourselves. Perhaps Pax Sinica might be less turbulent than Pax Americana. Do you know we were questioned recently as to whether we were parties to a secret plan to attack China? Very embarrassing when your Defence Minister is put on the spot about an american plan about which he knows nothing even though you allege us to be a close ally.

Your belligerence is not appreciated and you certainly could not call this peace and your paranoia knows no bounds. Do you search under your bed each night, there might be a red under there, perhaps he is NK or just a south american immigrant

The only real problem with our expenses and treaty obligations is that for the most part our allies don't pony up their fair share. Now in this critique I do not include your nation. But too many others ,especially in the Euro-zone have contracted their militaries ,to feed their nanny state promises ;and have done it on the back of the protection provided by the US military.
If there is any reductions needed in our defense obligations ,it is in guarding German beer halls ,
When there is a revolution in China ,when they remove their troops from Tibet and open the nation to outside press ;when they stop occupying their neighbor's territory throughout the South China Sea .When they stop their religious persecutions . Then I will perhaps feel better about their rapidly expanding military capabilites.

Hi Tom now why was it that you still have bases in Germany and Japan, tell me again about the eminent threat from these nations or the Russians. Now your focus has shifted to China, they have been naughty and don't play the way you do, we should be thankful for that. Who wants a cruise missile up their back side? Have you thought that China's expanding military capabilities are a response to your actions? But they are a big threat, one ancient aircraft carrier and a hundred sampans. If you thought seriously about it this is like the Cod war Britain fought with Norway, can't you see it?

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have you thought that China's expanding military capabilities are a response to your actions? But they are a big threat, one ancient aircraft carrier and a hundred sampans. If you thought seriously about it this is like the Cod war Britain fought with Norway, can't you see it?

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Yes we underestimated Japan's intent too. This week they will deploy 2 astronauts to their own space station. Do you know their mission ? Nope and no one else does. I am looking at their political transition this year with interest. Appears to me that the cadres are replaying a Shakespearian farce ;and the PLA is what is left for national control. The PLA is aggressive regionally .You know that in spite of your denial . All you need to know is that they sent a submarine into the middle of the South China Sea to plant a flag on the ocean floor ;and declare the whole Sea China space. That is why the current tensions with the Philippines . That is why Vietnam is actively seeking US help . Do you think you are so far removed from that ?

The view I and many Australians have Tom is; been there done that. We followed you into Vietnam, thousands of Australian troops fought there and for what; to prop up another of your corrupt puppets.We feel the same about Afghanistan, the sooner troops withdraw from that place the better, what was once a just cause has turned into a debacle. Russians planted a flag at the north pole, planting flags may signal your intentions but it doesn't gain you any land.
Australia planted its flag on Antartica, doesn't mean we own it, We have to loose this eighteenth century mentality

The Russians planted their flag to lay claim the all the mineral deposits in the Arctic. The Chinese likewise laid claim to all the mineral rights in the South China Sea by planting their flag. Yes it is a meaningless gesture unless you have the muscle to back it up and are willing to use it. I have no doubt that is the Chinese intention . All I need do is look at the news from Tibet to know their intentions .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I have no doubt that is the Chinese intention . All I need do is look at the news from Tibet to know their intentions .

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I don't see them invading their neighbours any time soon but they have redistributed their population to their outlying provances, this has caused some ethnic tentions. Very volatile people the Chinese. Tibet is history, the west stood by and did nothing they cannot now complain about it. I expect you want the Israeli's to give back the West Bank or do you think they have the intention of invading Jordan?

Tom there are a great many problems in the world. I don't hear you shouting about the religious conflict in Nigeria and southern saharan Africa. What about all the people who are being oppressed there? You still have a reds under the bed complex, fighting old wars, we have moved on