While attempting to install a replacement light fixture, the fuse blew so I attempted to improve the electrical connections to the light fixture and then I reset the fuse. I then heard a fairly loud buzzing noise and within about 3 seconds, I manually flipped the appropriate fuse breaker to the off position -- and the buzzing stopped. I adjusted the electrical connections again and turned the fuse breaker to the on position: this time there was no buzzing but the light didn’t come on.

Using a multimeter, I tested the house wires leading from the outlet and they appear to have no current. However, the other outlets, including lights, that are on the same breaker circuit do work.

Can anyone tell me why the house wires leading to the light fixture are not getting any power and how I can fix it?

Thank you in advance for any assistance or suggestions you can provide.

Additional Background Information:

I had difficulty making good connections apparently because the light fixture wires are made of thin silver threads and the house wires are made of thick copper. Neither the connectors that came with the light fixtures or the connectors the hardware store sold me after I explained my difficulty seemed to allow me to make reliable connections.

The light fixture that is not working is in the basement ceiling. As far as I know, I have only one GFI breaker - in an upstairs bathroom; I reset it and that outlet works fine.

This question has changed because the situation has changed. I believe it has become considerably more interesting: If you like a mystery or a challenge, keep reading. Surprisingly, three days after the light fixture stopped working -- it started working again . . . without me making any repairs! Kind of hard to believe right? And, I still need your help to figure out what is wrong because there is still a problem. I will explain:

The problematic light fixture is at the bottom of my basement stairs. When operating properly, the light can be turned on or off by either the light switch at the top of the stairs or the switch at the bottom of the stairs. After the light fixture stopped working (see details in quote below) I would still flip the light switches now and then reflexively when attempting to navigate the dark stairway. Finally, after about three days, one time when I reflexively flipped the switch, the light actually came on! I was astonished -- since the light hadn't worked for several days and I hadn't done anything to repair it. Can you guess why?

I thought, what could possibly have changed to make the light fixture start working again? It wouldn't take three days for electrical circuits to cool down so what else could it be? Ambient temperature and humidity had likely changed a little bit in the basement over the last three days but that didn't seem to be a very likely explanation. I thought a moment and realized that I changed one variable even though it is normally not a factor. By reflexively but inconsistently flipping the light switches over the last few days, I had inadvertently been randomly changing the relative position of the two light switches that control the light fixture. I had effectively been "rolling the dice" without knowing it and after three days, I finally came up with a winner.

So I noted the current position of the light switches and went through the few possible permutations to see what would happen. I discovered that there was only one combination of switch positions that resulted in the light turning on: both switches had to be in the up position.

Of course, I could live with the current situation. But if anyone can tell me how to fix the switches so they work normally, I would appreciate it. "Work normally", of course, means that flipping either switch changes the status of the light regardless of the position of the other switch.

Finally, I did check to make sure that the circuit breaker does turn off the light when I flip the circuit breaker. But do I need to do anything else to make sure the circuit breaker is safe and operating correctly since it didn't turn off automatically earlier when I heard that buzzing noise (see quote below)?

Thank you,

Tim

P.S. This is my first attempt to reply to a post in this forum and I don't know why the "reply with quote" button forces you to "submit an answer" as your only option to reply. It seems a bit odd since I am obviously not attempting to answer my own question and I suspect others may want to reply at times even when they don't have the answer. I looked in the help area for this forum but could not find any guidance on how to just reply to a post without "Submitting [an] Answer".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timx2244

While attempting to install a replacement light fixture, the fuse blew so I attempted to improve the electrical connections to the light fixture and then I reset the fuse. I then heard a fairly loud buzzing noise and within about 3 seconds, I manually flipped the appropriate fuse breaker to the off position -- and the buzzing stopped. I adjusted the electrical connections again and turned the fuse breaker to the on position: this time there was no buzzing but the light didn’t come on.

Using a multimeter, I tested the house wires leading from the outlet and they appear to have no current. However, the other outlets, including lights, that are on the same breaker circuit do work.

Can anyone tell me why the house wires leading to the light fixture are not getting any power and how I can fix it?

Thank you in advance for any assistance or suggestions you can provide.

Additional Background Information:

I had difficulty making good connections apparently because the light fixture wires are made out of thin silver threads and the house wires are made out of thick copper. Neither the connectors that came with the light fixtures or the connectors the hardware store sold me after I explained my difficulty seemed to allow me to make reliable connections.

The light fixture that is not working is in the basement ceiling. As far as I know, I have only one GFI breaker - in an upstairs bathroom; I reset it and that outlet works fine.

---

You were correct, to add information to your own post you simply enter it in the "Answer this question" block, just like you were answering your own question.

First, remake all the connections in the ceiling fixture. To make a good connection between small stranded wire (the fixture wiring) and solid house wire (thick copper wire) strip back the insulation of the solid wire about 3/8 to 1/2". Strip back the insulation of the stranded wire about 1/2". Straighten the strands of the stranded wire and twist them into a single strand. Make sure that all the strands are included in the twist. Insert the stranded wire in the wire nut as far as it will go. Then insert the solid wire into the wire nut. While holding both wires together, push and twist the wire nut counter clockwise. The twisting action of installing the wire nut will wrap the stranded wire around the solid wire. The secret is to use the correct size wire nut and to not strip back too much insulation on the solid wire. With a single solid wire and a single stranded wire you need a small wire nut. Manufactures use different colors to indicate the size of wire nuts sizes but usually they are white, gray or blue. Repeat, do not strip back too much insulation on the solid wire. You need the insulation to take up the space in the wire nut. After making the connection there should be no bare wire visible. You should not be able to pull the wire nut off the connection.

The buzzing sound and the tripping of the breaker indicate a poor connection with possibly a strand of the stranded wire exposed to created a short circuit.

If remaking the connections in the ceiling box does not solve your problem post back with a description of the wires in the ceiling box. It is possible that the short circuit that tripped the breaker created another problem in one of the switches.

I solved the problem by replacing one of the light switches, i.e. the closest light switch to the light fixture I was working on. I guess the only tricky part was making sure I got all four wires connected up to the correct terminals on the new switch since two of the wires were the same color: black. The green terminal was in a different position relative to the terminal for the red wire on the old versus the new light switch. I assumed the green terminal was for the ground on both the old and the new switch. Since the switch works fine now and the house hasn't burned down yet, it appears I must have gotten it right. Now if I could only figure out how to find a reliable plumber to fix my pipe that is leaking into my floorboard without him charging me more than I have in my checking account just to show up at the door.. .

Thank you for your advice Harold (hkstroud). I think the main reason I had trouble with the connections is that the solid copper house wires were so thick, that it was not possible to twist them at all; it was like wrapping the little silver wire strands around a copper telephone pole -- the silver strands would just slide around on the thick copper wire. And then, after making the connections, I really had to push hard to push the thick, stiff copper wires back into the fixture -- that probably loosened the connection even if it was OK to start with.

The other problem is that a very long length of the house copper wire was already exposed so I didn't have the opportunity to trim the insulation on the copper wire to a desired length. I'm not sure if I could even see any insulation on the house wire. When I open up the next light fixture to work on, I'll check and see if I can find any accessible insulation on the house copper wire so I can hopefully try the wire connection method you have recommended.

P.S.
Harold, to prevent other readers from possibly getting confused, may I ask, didn't you mean to say turn the wire nut "clockwise" when your wrote "counter clockwise' below? Actually, now that I think about it, it could get confusing because it depends on the orientation. And I remember you are a lefty too - hmm, does that matter? My understanding is that if you're pointing the opening of the wire nut away from you, as I normally would, you would want to turn the wire nut clockwise to tighten up the wire connection, right?


The rest is ranting and stuff like that for bored readers only.

It's often frustrating for an amateur taking on a new kind of task like this with no training or personal assistance because everybody always tells you its so easy because they always assume the ideal perfectly easy situation. But it seems like I (and maybe others?) always end up tackling some unusually complicated situation the first time -- before we ever get the chance to experience how easy a normal situation can be. This has happened to me many times and typically ends up wasting tremendous amounts to time and gets quite frustrating. And, as long as I am doing such a good job of griping, I'll mention that the instructions that come with the thing you're working on are often so pathetically ambiguous that only the person who wrote it or a possibly a person who doesn't need any instructions could possibly understand them. I'm glad forum/boards like this are available to help -- you just have to have garner up a lot of patience to wait for an answer when you really want to finish the job.

So thank you Harold and thanks to Askmehelpdesk.com for being there.

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timx2244

This question has changed because the situation has changed. I believe it has become considerably more interesting: If you like a mystery or a challenge, keep reading. Surprisingly, three days after the light fixture stopped working -- it started working again . . . without me making any repairs! Kind of hard to believe right? And, I still need your help to figure out what is wrong because there is still a problem. I will explain:

The problematic light fixture is at the bottom of my basement stairs. When operating properly, the light can be turned on or off by either the light switch at the top of the stairs or the switch at the bottom of the stairs. After the light fixture stopped working (see details in quote below) I would still flip the light switches now and then reflexively when attempting to navigate the dark stairway. Finally, after about three days, one time when I reflexively flipped the switch, the light actually came on! I was astonished -- since the light hadn't worked for several days and I hadn't done anything to repair it. Can you guess why?

I thought, what could possibly have changed to make the light fixture start working again? It wouldn't take three days for electrical circuits to cool down so what else could it be? Ambient temperature and humidity had likely changed a little bit in the basement over the last three days but that didn't seem to be a very likely explanation. I thought a moment and realized that I changed one variable even though it is normally not a factor. By reflexively but inconsistently flipping the light switches over the last few days, I had inadvertently been randomly changing the relative position of the two light switches that control the light fixture. I had effectively been "rolling the dice" without knowing it and after three days, I finally came up with a winner.

So I noted the current position of the light switches and went through the few possible permutations to see what would happen. I discovered that there was only one combination of switch positions that resulted in the the light turning on: both switches had to be in the up position.

Of course, I could live with the current situation. But if anyone can tell me how to fix the switches so they work normally, I would appreciate it. "Work normally", of course, means that flipping either switch changes the status of the light regardless of the position of the other switch.

Finally, I did check to make sure that the circuit breaker does turn off the light when I flip the circuit breaker. But do I need to do anything else to make sure the circuit breaker is safe and operating correctly since it didn't turn off automatically earlier when I heard that buzzing noise (see quote below)?

Thank you,

Tim

P.S. This is my first attempt to reply to a post in this forum and I don't know why the "reply with quote" button forces you to "submit an answer" as your only option to reply. It seems a bit odd since I am obviously not attempting to answer my own question and I suspect others may want to reply at times even when they don't have the answer. I looked in the help area for this forum but could not find any guidance on how to just reply to a post without "Submitting [an] Answer".

---