Hello:

Recently, the Appeals Court approved the loss of YOUR Habeas Corpus rights. That's right, I said YOURS.

Hold on, excon, you say. The habeas corpus rights that were taken away, were taken away from foreigners who are held in foreign prisons. YOU and I, excon, still have OUR habeas corpus rights, you say.

By the way, habeas corpus (a bedrock of American law), is the last available method a prisoner has to challenge his imprisonment in court.

So, you and I still have OUR habeas corpus rights, you say. Well what happens if the CIA (who rightly or wrongly thinks you're NOT an American) picks you up in the middle of the night and whisks you off to, say Cuba? Since you aren't ever going to see a judge, who are you going to tell about your habeas corpus rights?

If some people don't have habeas corpus rights, none of us do. Come on righty's, tell me I'm wrong.

excon

I tend to lean to the right and I agree with you. Any one of us could hear a knock on the door and there is someone we have never seen before and told to come with them. Hopefully that does not happen, but it HAS happened to some people who were wrongly held and questioned. So never say it can never happen to you/me/them.

The right to courts have not be given to many people over the years, During WWII we did not give them to german or japanese prisones either.
Also the japanese american citizesn ( actual citizens) were imprisioned during WWII without any rights to the court.

The Korean prisoners during that war, or the VC during Nam were not given any rights to US courts eithter

I see little difference between past war time rulings and the current rulings. And it has not destroyed america over the past 60 years from these happening

Hello again:

Padre, we're getting destroyed now. I think we're going to hell in a handbasket. George Bush is where the handbasket begins...

excon

PS> Nobody cares about politics over here, cides the three of us. Maybe if one of us couldn't get off we'd get a few responses...

German-Americans were interred during WWII also - there was an old fort here in Bismarck that was converted to a camp. The only reason my Grandfathers were not interred was because they were farmers and the crops were needed. My Father and two of his brothers served in WWII and that did not make an impression on whoever in the world was deciding who to inter.

Olberman's great comment: YouTube - Keith Olbermann: Death of Habeas Corpus

I don't get it... maybe it's because I don't watch TV... expecially "news".

Seems to me that the OP hinges on "what if". Can't anyone can say "what if" and make anything sound bad?

Admittedly, I'm mostly in the dark not being sure what law or policy is being referred to... or what, in a simple sentence, GWB supposedly did that prompted the post.

Too, I'm always left in wonder when I hear a complaint that a President (not just GWB, but any President) did this or that. I'm no Poly Sci guru, but I did not know that a President could change a law or take away a right.

When a voter is ticked off at a new or changed law or policy, he'd better look at not only the President who supported it, but every person responsible for backing it or voting for it. If one focuses on only the president, he or she has been duped.

Sorry... end of rant :p

Hello again, Need:

Where do you think I get it? I'm not smart enough to come up with it myself.

Plus, I have to tell you, that I'm proud of your Supreme Court for voting 9 to zip yesterday, against the policies of George W. Bush, and restoring the very rights I'm talking about. There is sanity in the world after all.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickJ

Seems to me that the OP hinges on "what if". Can't anyone can say "what if" and make anything sound bad?

sorry...end of rant :p

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Hello Rick:

You're a moderator. You're allowed to rant...

You are absolutely right. What if the government violated your rights? Furthermore, I suggest that you're correct in the notion that most people never need their Constitutional rights. But ALL of them, not just this one, are based on a "what if" scenario.

And, it isn't "what if" to the people that it actually happens to, and there are such people - even if only a few. Or do you deny that there are any? The Bill of Rights was written for the few who run into the jaws of government - not the many who don't. I think we need to fight for them even though we may never need them.

excon

PS> I didn't know the president could take away one of our Constitutional rights either, but he did. If we don't do something to restore them, they're gone forever...

Rick,
Doesn't a US president have veto power? If he thought it were a bad thing would he not veto it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Rick,
Doesn't a US president have veto power? If he thought it were a bad thing would he not veto it?

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That's how it should work, and for the most part has worked until now, but GWB has taken to issuing a "signing statement" when he signs a law that says which parts of it he agrees with and intends to enforce, and which parts he asserts are unconstitutional constraints on his "unitary executive" powers, and which he therefore will not enforce on others or comply with himself. This is insidious, because the only way to get judicial review of the President's unilateral determination of the law's unconsitutionality is for somebody with legal standing to suffer harm and file suit asking the Court to enjoin the Executive to enforce and obey the law as written and signed.

As to whose rights have been taken away, the answer is everyone's, because the President has asserted the right, and Congress (to their everlasting shame) has passed a law that gives him the right to designate ANYBODY WHOMSOEVER (US citizen, legal resident alien, or foreigner) as an "enemy combatant". This designation automatically deprives them of any access to the courts to challenge the declaration of their status, or to see and challenge any evidence of crimes they may be suspected of. It is now completely legal in the United States of America for the Executive Branch of government, on its own determination and initiative, to declare ANYONE to be an "enemy combatant", seize them off the street or from their home, lock them up for the rest of their life, and never reveal the reason for their seizure or even the fact that it took place--no review, no rebuttal, no appeal.

Lets talk about the 8 yrs clinton ruined the country. Seems the dems don't like to discuss that. :)

I'm not American but I do like the majority of Americans I've met, so I thought I'd just chuck this into the debate;

Fascist America, in 10 easy steps | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Enjoy!

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gazelleintense

lets talk about the 8 yrs clinton ruined the country. seems the dems don't like to discuss that. :)

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Hello gaze:

So, that excuses Georgie? No, it doesn't. Haven't you right wingers heard the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right"? Nope, no you haven't.

excon