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I'm waiting fro the protests and the angst from the US about the Indian missile launch. Didn't they know or perhaps they had no intention of sanctioning India. Once again the double standard is evident even though this launch moves us far closer to nuclear confrontation than did the NK failed attempt. Is it just that India is too far away to threaten the US, in that case so is Iran
India launches long-range missile on test flight - CNN.com
Why does India threaten you is the question ? Here's the difference... India has a solid nonproliferation record. They're engaged with the international community on nonproliferation issues.
And yet by your definition nonproliferation includes not developing the delivery systems and yet... here is a clear violation.. and yet you do nothing. INDIA will have no problem with dealing with the MUSLIM threat and the CHINESE threat as well. You pu$$y foot about the issue if you will but one more indication of your failure to deal evenhandly in foreign relations . Another american proxy
India doesn't threaten me, they threaten world peace because like yourselves they think they need the ultimate deterent
Nonproliferation means that they don't export their knowledge and technology to terrorist states .
Evenhandly ? There is no requirement to do so with rogue nations like the NORKs and the 12'ers
Have they exported their nuclear technology, it was another of your mates who exported their technology to them and yet, no sanctions. As I said before you always have to have someone to blame to deflect the issues from what you are doing yourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Non proliferation means they don't develop or enhance nuclear capabilites, by your definition my nation could exercise its option to develop nuclear weapons tomorrow and no one will say anything.
Given the instability in the region caused by the NORKs and their patron , I wouldn't hold it against your nation to develop it's own deterence. I certainly would not blame the Japanese ,Taiwanese ,or South Koreans .
We don't need nuclear deterence Tom, we are not stuck on the end of a peninsular on a traditional migration route, nor are we being invaded by the penguins. Once again these are typically northern hemisphere problems (arn't they all?). I have no doubt we have all the research to hand having collaborated in nuclear tests in the early days but we see no practical application for it. Now you do have a practical application but unless you use it, its deterence value is somewhat diminished. It is the same with nuclear power, the cost doesn't warrant the effortQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The NK have not done much about regional stability or instability since the mid fifties, they rattle their sabres now and again to remind us they are still there, is all.They may yet do us a favour and blow themselves up. China is basically resigned to allow Taiwan to exist as long as they are not militant and the Japs learned the lesson you never did. Now India is a horse of a different colour, how long will they be content to remain within their borders? they will follow commercial success with adventurism just as you have.
You couldn't be more wrong . Their rapid development of a blue water navy is not designed to defend coastal waters or trade routes exclusively . Taiwan and Japan stand in the way of their ambitions and their aggressions in the East China Sea ,especially against the Japanese demonstrate it . You may think the Japanese are defanged ;but remove the US willingness to defend Japan and Taiwan and what you will get is rapid proliferation and mobilzation.Quote:
China is basically resigned to allow Taiwan to exist as long as they are not militant and the Japs learned the lesson you never did.
Tom the development of a blue water navy is for the same purpose the US has one, as a natural extension of national power. What you don't like is your wings are being clipped a little and there are others who see their interests need defending. Look at China's military expenditures, they are a fraction of yours. It is your military expenditures that fuel the arms race, not the other way around. As far as soveriegnty arguments between Japan and China they are capable of resolving these themselves. By the way India has a navy too you have said nothing about that. Don't forget there is a lot of history between China and Japan and WWII is not forgotten
India is a democracy. You still don't see the difference ?
No Tom adding that word to your political spectrum makes no difference, the question is after all are the leaders responsible or mad tyrants. Russia is a democracy, will you tolerate all they do because the leader has been "elected". Iran is a democracy, it doesn't stop you from arguing with them over nuclear policy. I have observed the operation of your democracy, do you really think you are different?
Both Iran and Russia masquerade as democracies. Putin is alternately President/Prime Minister for life. He has used poision and murder to remove political opposition. The Iranians are a democracy only to the extent that the person who the 12'ers approve of has political leadership. So no ;I do not consider either nation a legitimate democracy.
But Tom we don't want to adopt your form of democracy, which is a democracy of convenience. Sure you go though a painfull razzamattaz every few years on the pretense that you are actually electing the candidate of choice but in reality only a few will ever get an opportunity for their voice to be heard. In the same way we don't want to adopt your form of capitalism, even though it is rearing its ugly head here lately. Let's speak plainly Tom your president governs at the whim of Congress, which in itsself along with the Senate is organised to get nothing done unless a massive majority exists in both places. It is actually surprising you have evolved beyond the eighteenth century. So in fact you could say the iranians have stood your principles on their head and their President actually has the ability to direct what is done. Forget the religious overtones for a moment. Now Putin is also in the same position. The man gets elected, legitimately we are unable to judge form this distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Sorry you feel that bashing us is a good idea, perhaps you need that vent of feelings to prevent your head from exploding, but since Russia, China, NK, Iran to name a few are closed societies we really don't know what motivates the saber rattling, or what becomes of it, neither do you.
So if you don't mind, we will do as we do no matter what you say, and pick our friends and enemies as we choose, and I hope you feel free to do the same. See how easy that was? Aren't you glad you are in the ocean you are in, and not in the same one we are? See there is a bright side to this.
So stop stealing our workers why don't you, and talk to the partners YOU trade with and respect so much that you defend them against US!! Hey India ain't that far away, and they aren't Asians. Call 'em, they are as smart as you guys, some are smarter. They would love to assimilate and help you guys out. At least you won't be bothered by American diseases.
The NORKS were parading a missile atop a sophisticated Chinese made 16-wheel missile transporter-erector-launcher (TEL) the other day during their parade .If the Chinese provided it or gave them the technology to reproduce it then the Chinese violated various UN resolutions passed in 2006 and 2009.
Now we have been told that the Chinese do not want the NORKS to have nukes because it would be a destabilizing factor in the region. But I think they are more than happy to help them.
Meanwhile ;the long knives are sharpening in China as a new generation of thugs prepare to assume power for another generation. Bo Xilai's dismissal as Chongqing party chief ,Gu Kailai and her complicity in the murder of Brit Neil Heywood ;Wang Lijun attempt to defect ,is all beginning to resemble a Chinese depiction of Shakespeare's Richard III .
North Korea and Iran are callaborating to develop long range nuclear capability to have a bigger saber to rattle. While China suffers from massive unemployment, and economic dependence big time, and truth be told they say they are rich and powerful but they are not. But they can hardly admit that can they?
Tal I have no doubt there are almost as many affulent people in China as in america and many more poor by our standards but don't confuse China with the third world in other places, this is no place of sprawling slums and refuse heaps. China suffers from massive unemployment because of migration from rural areas. Thing about China is they have an ability to get things done, they are not hampered by an obstructionist political system
At least after the dust settles . Yeah... National Socialism systems tend to get the trains to run on time. On the negative side ;they are always in pursuit of liebestraum... and the Chinese are no different . Their expansion into Tibet is rapid . Their expansion of the string of pearls is rapid... and that means they are headed for a clash with India.Quote:
Thing about China is they have an ability to get things done, they are not hampered by an obstructionist political system .
Or fall under there own weight as have all the other dictators around them. I mean they are more afraid of North Korean poor people swamping their borders than the threat of attack from nuclear proliferation by Iran, or NK.
Tom have you examined a map lately? Even though China has clashed with India over a small part of disputed border the practicality of there being a real clash is small. If they were going to expand why hasn't Mongolia fallen already or Kazakhistan? Reality is they have have enough land, and where they have really expanded is Xizang. What they don't need is more people. I think the chinese have a real idea of the enormity of their countryQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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