I am the mother of two minor children. Ages 6 and 9. Their father and I divorced in Jan 2007 . At the time of the divorce he was trying to give up all rights to both children and would let them be adopted by someone else if I deciede so. The courts would not allow that, they said a father can not just give up the right because they don't want to pay child support. So the judge ordered that my ex pays child support but was awarded no visitation rights at all.. In the past 6 years he has not been in their life for more than a year total, and a year is being generous. It will be 2 years in the next few months since he has had any form of contact at all, phone call, visit, email, text message, birthday card/present, Christmas card/present anything at all. He has had all the chances in the world to do so, he has chosen not to. He pay child support not by want to, but by have to. So in this case even though child support is being taken out, since he has had no contact is this still abandonment, what if for some reason out of the blue he decieds he want to see them. Now after all this time, and takes me back to court for visitations? He has never been a constant in their lives, never been any form of father figure, or support, the only thing he has done is pop in and out, causing them to become more hurt and confused. and now they don't even speak about him or ask about him.. I have since re married and my husband take care of them, supports them, loves them, and by every meaning of the word is their father. They by choice have called him dad, if you would ask them who their dad is they will point to my husband, or say his name. I do not want my children to suffer or be caused any more emotional damage than my ex husband has already caused them. What can I do?

My ex husband and I divorced in Jan of 2007, He attempted to give up all rights to our 2 minor children. The Judge said that he was not allowed to do so, just because he did not want to pay child support. The judge then awarded me soul custody, he was to pay child support and was awarded NO visitation at all. In the 5 years since the divorce he has not had more than a yr total contact with the children, and in the next month and a half it will be 2 yrs since he has seen, spoke, or hand any form of contact with them at all, not even a birthday or christmas card/present.. I have since re married, and my husband has supported them, loved them, taken care of them, been to plays, and games, and shopping with them, and has been a father in every since of the word to them, they have been calling him dad, and they chose to do so on their own not by any persuasion.They have even asked if they could have his last name so we can all have the same name. In the past the biological father has done the in and out dance, false promises and broken sad little faces to the kids. He has caused them such emotional pain. And now it has been almost 2 years since they have even seen or talked to them. The children do not even talk or ask about him at all. What is considered abandonment? And if by some small chance he would try and take me to court to establish visitation, would he be awarded this even though he has made no attempt to reverse the court order in 5 years, and hasn't seen them in 2 years. Theydo not want a relationship with him, my 9 yr old son has stated several times that he is happy he is out of his life and would never want to go anywhere with him. My 6 yr old daughter says no also. If you ask them who their dad is they will either point to my husband or say my husbands name. I also want to point out that I never nor do I allow anyone else to speak poorly of their biological father around them. I do not believe in that, I want them to have their own opinions and I never want to be held responsiable for their feeling toward them, I have let him do that himself by his own actions... So what is the rules in this situation

No this is not abandonment. In fact, we have a "Sticky" note at the top of this forum that deals with this very issue. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family...st-364259.html

It would be unlikely, at this point, that he would get any visitation. At the most, he might get supervised visitation, but the chances are slim.

The judge was correct that they will not terminate a parent's rights just to allow them out of paying support. I suspect you weren't remarried at the time. But since you are married now, your husband can adopt and that would terminate his rights and obligations.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

No this is not abandonment. In fact, we have a "Sticky" note at the top of this forum that deals with this very issue. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family...st-364259.html It would be unlikely, at this point, that he would get any visitation. At the most, he might get supervised visitation, but the chances are slim. the judge was correct that they will not terminate a parent's rights just to allow them out of paying support. I suspect you weren't remarried at the time. But since you are married now, your husband can adopt and that would terminate his rights and obligations.

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We are looking into my husband adopting them, but their biological father would have to agree to that, and there lies the issue, he don't want to " look bad" in the eyes of the people he is associated with, therefor I see him contesting the adoption just to save face really, I mean he has made zero effort in being a part of their life for nearly 2 years, and like I said, prior to the 2 years he hasn't been around more than a handfull of times, and every time he has it has just upset them, because he will say and tell them things and then won't see them for another 8 months or a yr or longer.as far as the child support, I couldn't care less about the money he can keep it, I just want the peace of mind to know my children won't have to go somewhere they don't want to go and that they won't be emotionally scared any more by his actions. And as far as abandoment? You said there is a note about it on here?

Yes I included a link to the post in my response.

Adoption is your only alternative. If he refuses to agree, you can try to use abandonment as grounds to push the adoption through.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Yes I included a link to the post in my response.

Adoption is your only alternative. If he refuses to agree, you can try to use abandonment as grounds to push the adoption through.

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But in your opinion, do you feel the court system would even allow him visitations after 5 yrs of not seeking it at all and 2 yrs of no contact? This is the main concern I have, I really don't want an ugly court battle, and I especially do not want to put my children through any more emotional damage by a court battle..

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Originally Posted by Tay15

We are looking into my husband adopting them, but their biological father would have to agree to that, and there lies the issue, he don't want to " look bad" in the eyes of the people he is assoicated with, therefor I see him contesting the adoption just to save face really, ...

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Two things you should be aware of:

1. In most places, adoption hearings are closed to the public. The people he is associated with probably would not know of the adoption unless he were to tell them.
   
2. If he doesn't consent to the adoption, his parental rights can, in the context of a step-parent adoption, be terminated without his consent.

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Originally Posted by AK lawyer

Two things you should be aware of:

1. In most places, adoption hearings are closed to the public. The people he is associated with probably would not know of the adoption unless he were to tell them.
   
2. If he doesn't consent to the adoption, his parental rights can, in the context of a step-parent adoption, be terminated without his consent.

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We live in Ohio, and I mean his family, they would know, but they haven't made effort to contact the children either so... But what are your thoughts on what the courts would do if he up and deciedes to try and establish some for of visitation with them now after the 2 yrs of no contact, and the previous in and out he is doing?

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Originally Posted by Tay15

We live in Ohio, and I mean his family, they would know, but they havent made effort to contact the children either ...

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As I said, they would only know if he told them.

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Originally Posted by Tay15

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so...But what are your thoughts on what the courts would do if he up and deciedes to try and establish some for of visitation with them now after the 2 yrs of no contact, and the previous in and out he is doing?

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Me? I would agree with ScottGem:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

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It would be unlikely, at this point, that he would get any visitation. At the most, he might get supervised visitation, but the chances are slim.
...

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Yes after 5 years or more he could get visitation, the only reason he does not have it now, is most likely he never went to court for it. Visits is not ordered at a child support hearing, They are not connected.

They may order it to be supervised, they may order counseling at the beginning but yes he would most likely get it.

Unless he signs over his rights I see little chance of an adoption taking place , esp since he is paying child support

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

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Unless he signs over his rights i see little chance of an adoption taking place , esp since he is paying child support

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I'm not sure of that

"3107.07 Consent unnecessary.
Consent to adoption is not required of any of the following:
(A) A parent of a minor, when it is alleged in the adoption petition and the court , after proper service of notice and hearing, finds by clear and convincing evidence that the parent has failed without justifiable cause to provide more than de minimis contact with the minor or to provide for the maintenance and support of the minor as required by law or judicial decree for a period of at least one year immediately preceding either the filing of the adoption petition or the placement of the minor in the home of the petitioner."

That "or" is the important part. Consent can be dispensed with if the father hasn't made any effort to contact the children even if he has been paying support.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Yes after 5 years or more he could get visitation, the only reason he does not have it now, is most likely he never went to court for it. Visits is not ordered at a child support hearing, They are not connected.

They may order it to be supervised, they may order counseling at the beginning but yes he would most likely get it.

Unless he signs over his rights i see little chance of an adoption taking place , esp since he is paying child support

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We went to court for our divorce, and the Judge ruled he was not awarded any visitation at all, but was ordered to pay child support, we have never went through a child support hearing. It was all done in a court by a judge. What I am asking is why after such a Gap in interest would a court think it would be healthy for the father to pop back in and get visitation and over turn his previous ruleing?. also at the beginning he want to give up all rights any way.. also the kids have said they want nothing to do with him anyway, my son has stated if he is forced to go with him that the first time he stops, he is jumping out of the car and running back home or to his grandparents... so what do you do in this case.. Why would a judge overturn the first order? And has your opinion changed now,

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Originally Posted by Tay15

We went to court for our divorce, and the Judge ruled he was not awarded any visitation at all, but was ordered to pay child support, we have never went through a child support hearing. It was all done in a court by a judge. What I am asking is why after such a Gap in intrest would a court think it would be healthy for the father to pop back in and get visitation and over turn his previous ruleing?...also at the begining he want to give up all rights any way..also the kids have said they want nothing to do with him anyway, my son has stated if he is forced to go with him that the first time he stops, he is jumping out of the car and running back home or to his grandparents...so what do you do in this case..Why would a judge overturn the first order? and has your opinion changed now,

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Its not about overturning anything. Its about modification. And you ex has the right to modify the custody at any time so long as it meets the courts rules. He is to his credit supporting his children. Since your life has changed so it is possible his life is changing also. From the sounds of it you haven't created this friendly environment for him and hischildren. Tensions almost always run high when you start blending.

Family courts are big on restoring natural families. They will take into account that a father could change his feelings. So if a father, even an estranged one were to go back to court for visitation, they would consider it.

But given that a court initially ordered NO visitation,an unusual step, I think it is unlikely they would modify the order after such a time of no contact. I think the courts are likely to look favorably on a step parent adoption because it creates a family. And I am very sure that without the adoption you won't get any changes.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Its not about overturning anything. Its about modification. And you ex has the right to modify the custody at any time so long as it meets the courts rules. He is to his credit supporting his children. Since your life has changed so it is possible his life is changing also. From the sounds of it you havent created this friendly enviroment for him and hischildren. tensions almost always run high when you start blending.

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That is not true, I have given him every opportunity to see his children, in fact I lived in apartment at one point, his first wife and mother of his other child lived in the same set of apartments, he would go to drop off or pick up his other son, and not even go the 2 feet to see our 2. He even walked right by them while they were going to the car with my husband and did not even acknowledge them, and they passed on the same side walk, it is not like he didn't see them, there has been no hostility from me, I never speak poorly or let anyone else speak poorly of him in front of or around my children. I harbor no ill feelings, I wish him well in his life.. but I do not believe that after being NO part of a their life for so long he should be able to just 1 day say" oh well maybe i want to be a dad now" " lets go upturn their lives for what I want".. to me it is what is best for the kids, not him or me. Anytime they have asked to see or talk to him in the last 5 yrs I have tried, I will NEVER denie them that righ if that is what they want.. but how many unanswered calls, or blow off can one person really take.. I have covered for him, and not to be nice to him but to spare my children's feelings.. I just said he is working kids.. maybe next time.. 5 yrs of working without a day off, they are old enough now not to believe that.. and please keep in mind, he still hasn't tried to make contact, I am just curious because my children would like to take my husbands last name, in their words, he is our daddy, and this is our family, I think we should all have the same name.. Emotionally my children have been scared by his actions, my son has made drawlings and wrote storys, that I was called to school over about how hurt he was.. Now that has all stopped and they are finally happy with the family God has given us.. you are right the both of us have moved on and our lives have changed, I have been a parent who has done everything 24/7.. he could not even tell you their teachers names or what sports or activities they are in.. we both have made our choices, I regret nothing... So by what you are saying, it like this... He can just mess up hurt them, scare them emotionally, but its perfectally OK for him to be allowed to waltz back and do it again?. and somehow you say I haven't created a "friendly enviroment"... Not once have I ever been anything but accepting and if anything stupid for allowing him to repet his behavior..

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Family courts are big on restoring natural families. They will take into account that a father could change his feelings. So if a father, even an estranged one were to go back to court for visitation, they would consider it.

But given that a court initially ordered NO visitation,an unusual step, I think it is unlikely they would modify the order after such a time of no contact. I think the courts are likely to look favorably on a step parent adoption because it creates a family. And I am very sure that without the adoption you won't get any changes.

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Thank you Scott, I also found it unusaual that the court orderd No visitation, I haven't heard of any other case in my area like this either.I think it was due in part because he just tried to give them up from the beginning and as you have said also, that is not allowed... Like I mentiond to the other person, He still has not made an attempt to contact them or me.. but he is very unpredictable and I just want to be prepared for anything he throw our way.. if he does, because my children absolutely do not want to be around him. And it is because of their own feelings.

We cannot predict what a court will do. We can suggest what we think they might do and offer a suggestion on what we think you should do. And what you should do is go ahead with the adoption. Given all the circumstances you list, I think the adoption will be granted even if the bio father objects.

But I don't think he can just "oh well maybe i want to be a dad now". The court awarded him no visitation. Therefore, he has to go to court to change that. And the court is not likely to just allow him a free rein at this point. At the most he would get supervised visitation to start.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

We cannot predict what a court will do. We can suggest what we think they might do and offer a suggestion on what we think you should do. And what you should do is go ahead with the adoption. Given all the circumstances you list, I think the adoption will be granted even if the bio father objects.

But I don't think he can just "oh well maybe i want to be a dad now". The court awarded him no visitation. Therefore, he has to go to court to change that. And the court is not likely to just allow him a free rein at this point. At the most he would get supervised visitation to start.

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They question now is, do I rock the boat, like I said he hasn't attempted anything, and the kids are happier than ever with their lives, they have a family and it's a whole unit, no back and forths, it very peaceful and loveing.. if I should go ahead with the adoption and the Ex does contest, my children will be involved in a messy court battle, and I don't want them to go through that, that is the main reason we haven't filed yet... If it stays like this there are now problems, but as a mother I can't see my baby's hurt anymore by him, and even though in 5 yrs he hasn't been in their lives for more than 8 months total, and that is seriously being generous with the time, he has cause them so much pain, and I am always the one to pick up the pieces, dry the tears, clam the nightmares, and deal with the school when there is a behavior spun from his actions.. I am just afraid that if I file it will stir the pot and I don't want that, plus even supervised visitation is too much at this point, The children have made it very clear they WILL NOT EVER go anywhere with him no matter what.. My son is 9, but trust me he has the mind and attitude of a 30 yrs old, he thinks and acts for himself, and they things he comes up with are just to wise for his age, I'm just worried for them, I don't want them to regress in behavior and be sad all the time again it kills me to see them that way

So try it this way. Approach the father and remind him that, at the time of the divorce, he spoke about relinquishing his rights to allow for adoption. Now that you are married and have someone willing to adopt, you would like to go ahead with it. Remind him that an adoption would end his support obligation. So ask him if he will make this easy by agreeing to the adoption.

If he says no, then tell him that you don't want to subject the children to a court battle over this so you will not pursue it and let his support payments continue.

You might also consider sitting down with your children and explain to them that your husband loves them and loves being their father so he would like to make it official by adopting them. However, their bio father is blocking this and to pursue it might involve some messy court actions. But if they want you to go through with it you will.

And finally, before you do anything, consult with an attorney to find out what the odds are of pushing through an adoption if he refuses to sign.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

So try it this way. Approach the father and remind him that, at the time of the divorce, he spoke about relinquishing his rights to allow for adoption. Now that you are married and have someone willing to adopt, you would like to go ahead with it. Remind him that an adoption would end his support obligation. So ask him if he will make this easy by agreeing to the adoption.

If he says no, then tell him that you don't want to subject the children to a court battle over this so you will not pursue it and let his support payments continue.

You might also consider sitting down with your children and explain to them that your husband loves them and loves being their father so he would like to make it official by adopting them. However, their bio father is blocking this and to pursue it might involve some messy court actions. But if they want you to go through with it you will.
And finally, before you do anything, consult with an attorney to find out what the odds are of pushing through an adoption if he refuses to sign.

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I can't disagree enough with the portion I have highlighted in red. Making the bio father out to be the bad guy could in fact be considered parental alienation. As it is according to the OP their relationship with the bio father isn't on good grounds. As we know the courts may not allow children so young to testify or be involved in the process. Lets try to keep in mind these are preteen children that are involved and their scope of understanding is very limited and easily swayed.