My son dad remarried to a woman who is from another country. We live in Georgia and I just found out that he told our son who is 10 that they may be moving to California. This after he had stipulated in the papers if I move 50 miles outside current address I would be half responsible for visitation. For ten years from my disliking I've done this for my son to have an relationship with his dad. Just got a text messege when I called to speak to our son that they were on their way to san diego.. See you later. I final say in issues not agreed upon.. wouldn't this count? It doesn't seem logical that you can just go across country without even discussing it and I have a say.

Up under custody and visitation it has many things listed as to rearing, religious upbringing, activities.. things all in this nature. We live in Georgia. The father has secondary custodian and I have primary. It was mentioned by my son who is ten that his dad and wife may move to California. Then I get a text when my son was with them that he was on the plane to san diego. I had it checked and it wasn't true but the father said, I can take him anywhere and all he has to do is say so. His text was just to harrass. However, if something as small as an activity I have a final say on.. If its not to the child's best interest then surly something as big as just heading to san diego from atlanta would be a bigger issue that I can make a call on. Right?

First, he is wrong. If you are the primary Custodial parent and he moves the child, then you file contempt of court charges and have a warrant issued for his arrest.

Second, impress on your son that he is not to get on a plane without your permission.

If you still have this text, you might take it to the court to get supervised. Situation.

OK, so you are the parent that your son lives with and your X has specific times for visitation spelled out in the Court agreement? If you both have the right to make decisions about the things you list- activities, religion etc. Then the X has the right to make decisions about those things while the child is with him, and you have the right to make decisions about those things while your son is with you. IF the Court Order says YOU have the right to decide those things not your X, then you decide those things even while your son is with his father. Does your court order say anything about taking the child out of state? If not, I would file a motion with the Court to modify the Order and have that restriction added into the Order (use the text message as the reason you want to add this in!DO NOT DELETE THAT MESSAGE!) If your X wants to move out of state usually he would be required to ask the Court for permission. If he has not asked for permission to move he can be held in Contempt. You need to carefully read your Court Order and ask the Court at a hearing to clarify anything that is not clear in writing. If it is not in writing from the Court it means nothing. This is not legal advise and I am not an attorney.

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Originally Posted by imrachelsmommy

Does your court order say anything about taking the child out of state? If not, I would file a motion with the Court to modify the Order and have that restriction added into the Order

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This is NOT necessary. As long as the OP is the PRIMARY custodian, the secondary cannot legally move the child out of state. In fact, it works both ways. Neither parent can move the child if it affects the custodial situation. The father is, of course, free to move himself.

But if the father has the child for several weeks during school breaks or in the summer, he could take the child for a vacation, which would be perhaps in other states. As long as it does not effect the return of the child, there would be no issue.

It reads: Child Custody and visitation. The parties shall have joint legal custody of the minor child, name. The mother shall have primary physical custody of the minor child and the Father shall be the secondary physical custodian. The Father shall have the right to be consulted with regard to the minor child's care, guidance, maintenance, medical care, education, extracurrilcular activities, religious upbringing supervision and rearing.The parties shall make good faith efforts to share in all non-emergency decisions affecting the child. If the parties are unable to agree after good faith efforts to resolve any differences between them, and keeping in mind the best interest of the child, then the Mother shall have the right to make the final decision. Each party shall be entitled to complete and detailed access to the minor child's medical, dental and school records. Both parties shall keep the other informed of the health and whereabouts of the moinor child at all times. (others things are said not pertaining to what I am asking- in regards to time given for activities)

It goes on to say also which I've respected to this day: The Father will be responsible for transportation necessarty to exercise visitation with the minor child provided the Mother lives within a fifty mile radius of her present residence otherwise, each party shall be responsible for one half of the transporting of the child for the Father to be able to exercise his visitation. I've stayed within 20 miles. He has moves twice over fifty miles or at about the distance. So.. yes I've agreed to let my son to go on ski trips up state and to Florida however, I do not agree for him to just up and take him to California because, of the distance. It's not in the best interest for my son. It is not respectful to the courts nor to I that I can understand that I should just be let known he is on a plane across country. Its not a state away- the distance is the issue and its an issue if I was stipulated to stay within 50 miles radius. Now, as for "final say" it IS under child custody and visitaion so I would think and I am not sure that the final say would apply to this issue. It's not I'm upset that he is taking him to the fair. This is bigger than a vacation week. If, I were going that far away, his dad would know and know why so as not to cause evil. They didn't even go... why would he say that? Is that not causing contentions? He said that he can take him wherever he wants and all he has to do is say so. I will not speak of my emotions but this isn't good for the child either to cause a parent this much evil- and for nothing. Just control- he is very controlling and this is why this issue exists. So, if I can't have a say so of where he takes him then why should I have a say so on anything else? The other fear here is that his wife is a doctor from Bulgaria. Across country at the ocean 3000 miles away from me- and I shouldn't worry? If they did move there than once my son is capable of making mature quests of his own, what ever that age may be.. it is not at ten if they in fact move there. He will not be getting on a flight every two weeks to go to California and I would be driving over 50 miles to put him on an airplane. I know that much. Won't happen. Im just concerned about the opening question "final say" on this. I need to know if I have this right? I had a crappy attorney last time. And yes, his dad makes 20 times much than I do and his wife probably double his. If, I can up and afford an attorney- a good one- than I wouldn't be on here. If this is in fact what I have to do- than I need all the help I can get. Thanks to everyone!

First, I edited your post to make it clearer what was in the agreement and what you were saying. If I was mistaken, let me know.

But what you posted reinforces exactly what I said. He does not have the right to take your son anywhere he wants without your permission. Your attorney wasn't that crappy. While this is pretty standard it puts you in control. You tell your son, not to get on a plane without your permission. Point out to your son, that you won't refuse reasonable requests as you haven't in the past. But that you need to be aware before he leaves the area. And there is no way he can move with your son. If he does that you can swear out a warrant against him.

Does your son have a passport? If not he can't leave the country. If he does, you hold on to it and he won't be able to leave the country.

Now here is the negative. If he decides to move and wants to continue with the current visitation, the current agreement would appear to allow that. On the other hand, I don't believe a court would agree to it. So if he does move out of state, I would immediately file for a modification of the visitation schedule. I also think you can force the father to pay your court costs in this situation.

But you do not have to do anything now. What until he tells you definitely that they are moving.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Understood Mr.Green- I do hope you are right because, I will stand my ground. As for if he moves my ten year old simply will not get on a plane by himself and he would have to have a way there which I am still within my 50 mile radius. I would not do his father any favors as to drive him to the airport that is 50 miles away and pick him back up two days later. That is too much time consumption on part based upon his choices that should not effect my life to that extreme. It would not be in the best interest of my 10 yr. old child to be on an airplane by himself for 5-6 hrs. Sounds like neglect. In the state of Georgia I can't leave him home more than 2 hrs. It just goes against so many things of reason and against the best interest of "the child". Even if he moved there, would I not still have final say based upon what is in the best interest of the child. I wouldn't with hold visits if he came to Atlanta every two weeks for the weekend. It seems to make better sense but, that usually doesn't apply to those who always want control. His dad has a temper too. And very retaliative when he doesn't get what he wants. Too many times I've sat waiting where we meet for 30-1 hr. for me to get him back home. I can't imagine what it would be like if he in fact moved to California and our son older. Nightmare. However, I must say my question has been answered. So, if he is at an airport about to go to California would I have the right to call the police? I called last time and they said if it were his visit, nothing they can do. I thought I could make a statement in text that he is not allowed to take him out without my permission and on this note he does not have the right when it comes to California. That way I will be making my decision known as to "final say" based on the papers. The law can see the papers and they should follow through by not allowing him, right?

Ok, First, this is not neglect and you shouldn't even think of going that route. Second, the police were correct that as long as it is his visitation time, they can do nothing. That's why its important for your child to understand that he has to refuse to get on a plane unless you have given permission. If he does, the father can't force him to. You can also try contacting the TSA to put your son on a watch list. This can then require the father to have written permission from you to get on a plane. But that is the only thing you can do if that much.

The main point here is the difference between taking him for a visit and moving. As long as the father returns the child when his time is over and lets you know where he is, then he would not be considered in violation of the current custody order. Since you have stayed within 50 miles of the original residence he is required to bear ALL costs for visitation.

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It would not be in the best interest of my 10 yr. old child to be on an airplane by himself for 5-6 hrs. Sounds like neglect. In the state of Georgia I can't leave him home more than 2 hrs.

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This above is wrong. Children even younger than 10 travel alone all the time. It is not the same as leaving him alone at home. Solo child travelers are generally under watch the entire time. On the other hand, having him fly cross country every other weekend is not going to be considered as reasonable. So, if he does move, it is certainly reasonable grounds for you to file to modify the visitation schedule. In such a case, allowing him school holidays and time over the summer would be more reasonable. But, the father would still have to bear the costs, including transportation to and from the airport.

You need to be careful here to pick the battles you can win. You will win if he doesn't return the child after his visitation. You can win a modification if he does move. You won't win trying to stop him from taking your son on a vacation.

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Originally Posted by Bagara

It reads: "... Both parties shall keep the other informed of the health and whereabouts of the moinor child at all times."...

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If I'm understanding what she said previously, the father sent her a text to the effect that the son was on a plane to California. While the father has the right to take the son to California, for a vacation, as long as it is within his visitation periods, he does not have the right to falsely inform her that they are on a plane. That would seem to be a violation of the quoted portion of the custody decree.

So, does he or does he not have the right to take my son anywhere without my consent? You said no the first time based on the "final say" custodial parents right to have that based on what's best for the child. Then you said I wouldn't win if he were to take him on vacation to California.

You said: The main point here is the difference between taking him for a visit and moving. As long as the father returns the child when his time is over and lets you know where he is, then he would not be considered in violation of the current custody order. Since you have stayed within 50 miles of the original residence he is required to bear ALL costs for visitation. I know this. The question is: Can I deny his dad to take him to California based on the papers of custody and visitation I having the final say as outlined in the above order you helped to edit? If, not isn't that a bigger issue than an activity at school so to speak? I can say no to minor things buy have no grounds for 3,000 miles away? No disrespect and I note your reputation is well but, you've given two answers. However, the TSA is a definite route I will follow and that was a great idea. That makes me feel some what safer. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Ok, First, this is not neglect and you shouldn't even think of going that route. Second, the police were correct that as long as it is his visitation time, they can do nothing. That's why its important for your child to understand that he has to refuse to get on a plane unless you have given permission. If he does, the father can't force him to. You can also try contacting the TSA to put your son on a watch list. This can then require the father to have written permission from you to get on a plane. But that is the only thing you can do if that much.

The main point here is the difference between taking him for a visit and moving. As long as the father returns the child when his time is over and lets you know where he is, then he would not be considered in violation of the current custody order. Since you have stayed within 50 miles of the original residence he is required to bear ALL costs for visitation.



This above is wrong. Children even younger than 10 travel alone all the time. It is not the same as leaving him alone at home. Solo child travelers are generally under watch the entire time. On the other hand, having him fly cross country every other weekend is not going to be considered as reasonable. So, if he does move, it is certainly reasonable grounds for you to file to modify the visitation schedule. In such a case, allowing him school holidays and time over the summer would be more reasonable. But, the father would still have to bear the costs, including transportation to and from the airport.

You need to be careful here to pick the battles you can win. You will win if he doesn't return the child after his visitation. You can win a modification if he does move. You won't win trying to stop him from taking your son on a vacation.

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I need to make some corrections here as some of what is being said is boarderline misinformation.

When a child is traveling without an adult then that child is in the custody of the airline. They are normally given a wristband. The airline has the same rights as would a babysitter and are responsible for the child up and until the child is turned over to the designated party. At no time is the child left truly alone during the journey. This happens every day in the industry.

Another thing is that it is breaking the law if there is no permission to cross a state line with a child. It is a misdemeanor. It can raise to a felony.

We need to be clear on this.

Federal Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act



The Federal Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act was enacted in 1980 to help prevent parental child abduction. Specifically, it was designed to keep parents from taking their children across state lines and initiating custodial proceedings in that state, since before the PKPA, states were not required to adhere to or enforce any uniform federal guidelines when it came to parental child abduction.


Second Degree Custodial Interference



Under the PKPA, custodial interference in the second degree is considered a misdemeanor, and is defined as the unlawful removal of a child from his custodial guardian or, if custody is joint, without the knowledge and permission of the other parent.


First Degree Custodial Interference



Custodial interference in the first degree is a felony, and occurs when second degree custodial interference has been committed and when the kidnapper ignores a request or an appeal by the custodial guardian of the child for the child's return.



Ref:
Parental Child Abduction Laws | eHow.com

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Originally Posted by AK lawyer

If I'm understanding what she said previously, the father sent her a text to the effect that the son was on a plane to California. While the father has the right to take the son to California, for a vacation, as long as it is within his visitation periods, he does not have the right to falsely inform her that they are on a plane. That would seem to be a violation of the quoted portion of the custody decree.

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No he does not have the right to go where he pleases with the child other then in state without permission from the other parent. Without permission and crosing a state line with the child would be a violation of federal law.

AK Lawyer. Yes, he has done this twice. Once when he was 9 and once yesterday. To California that is. I'm just confused on 'final say" the weight of that in regards to what is in the best interest of the child up under custody and visitation. If, it's under visitation and that is whay my son is doing is visiting his dad than, wouldn't it apply? It's understandable not to be controlling and petty on certain things. I did pitch a fit when my son was 3 and he had him playing a game rated 18 called halo.. he came home and pretended to shoot people and said he was going to do it to himself. He told me his dad lets him play halo. I looked it up and my resolute was solid. Regardless of him being in his home. That was not in his best interest. But, too it effected his well being even being at my home. It carried over. There are a lot of issues that go on. Several weeks ago my son got in the car and said his dad popped him in the face. I have on text his dad stating he will be late because he is teaching him something. I am waiting by the way, where we meet. He was two hours late. What he was teaching was a two day project of a lego port. (Important isn't it) It had been several hours and his dad turned on the TV and of course a ten year old is going to look. He looked too many times so his dad popped him in the face because, he told him a couple of times not to and to concentrate and not look at the screen. My son cried when he got in the car. He said he didn't want his dad to see him cry when he did it but, he did to the side. His dad is 6'6. You can imagine his strength. It didn't leave a mark. And he insulted him saying he had a.d.d. several times. My son is honor roll. I make sure he works hard in school. But he has a attention span of a ten year old. I don't know. Yes, I said something to his dad also about this and he went off and belittled me as well. He does everything above and beyond the line of the law. Never leaving evidence. Except, what my son says. He did admit to it but, there is no mark. You have to have that. Many times I've wanted to return evil for evil but I do not. I know my son is watching. Example, is all I have to give him by how I live, my love, and that I am here for him. I apologize if I rambled. It's been a tough weekend.

Cali- so even if we have legal joint custody and he is visiting his dad, his dad cannot go out of state with our son without my permission? Written. Whew.. I read the above but, more I talk about this the more my nerves get to me. Am I understanding this correctly? My emotions sometimes blind my understanding when it comes to these type of serious issues. It takes me a minute. Thank you to all.

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Originally Posted by Bagara

Cali- so even if we have legal joint custody and he is visiting his dad, his dad cannot go out of state with our son without my permission? Written. Whew.. I read the above but, more I talk about this the more my nerves get to me. Am I understanding this correctly? My emotions sometimes blind my understanding when it comes to these type of serious issues. It takes me a minute. Thank you to all.

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It doesn't have to be written but for the protection of both parties I for one would want it documented.

Here is a quote for the next time the police try to blow you off for reporting this.


Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act
If a party (such as your ex-spouse) refuses to return your child, you may seek relief under the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (PKPA). Contact the local law enforcement authorities and request they assist in the return of the child. If they refuse, insist that they enforce the PKPA Statute. Local law enforcement is bound by law to enforce the PKPA, and it is NOT up to them to selectively enforce it OR to decide the merits of any specific case or situation where the PKPA is applicable.
Ref:

Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act

He has never said that he wouldn't return him. Just he'll return him late when I am already waiting. It's the going out of state and me not even knowing or even thinking we need to discuss it. If, he says it.. it goes. That is his thought and he feels that is his right. The cops were trying to blow me off during his visit even if I am getting a text that he is on his way to California. I made them do a well check. They didn't like it and neither did the dad. But, how am I to know for sure. He lies to me. It was the only way.

First, to Califdad, not sure what you are correcting. We agree that a child traveling alone is in the care of the airline and not left alone. That's what I said.

Also, we are fully in agreement that not returning the child after visitation would be illegal. Thanks for adding the piece about crossing a state line without permission.

The problem with such laws is they provide a way to deal with it when it happens, but not prevent it, except by fear of the consequences.

So lets be clear for the OP the boys father CANNOT take him out of state without her permission. If he does, she can call the police. If he tries to move with the child he will be in violation of the custody agreement and, again, she can have him cited for contempt and swear out a warrant.

Check out putting him on a watch list as I suggested. But, again, if your son will refuse to go on a plane without your permission, that will help.

If he is consistently returning the child late (and I mean more than an hour or so) then you can try going back to court and ask that he be cited for contempt.