Ask Me Help Desk - Dog harelip?

We have 3 Maltese ****zu 2 females 1 male.
We have bred one female 3 times (not purposefully just left it to nature) and first litter was at 15months the second a year later. This final litter born a week ago was just 6 months after first litter. Given a choice we would not have bred her so soon. First 2 litters were all 5, healthy puppies. However this last one there was only 3, and 2 of them have a harelip they don't have the cleft palate. I checked
They are both suckling as well as could be expected and are growing just slightly slower than our other puppy.
They are not fatigued or dehydrated, I am keeping a very close eye on them.
I rang a vet as soon as I Identifyed the issue and asked what was in the best interest of our *****, as I didn't want to distress her and make her reject our only healthy pup.
The vet said aslong as they are drinking normally there was no need to remove them from the mother yet.
I would really love to be able to send these gorgeous puppies off to good homes but I know how difficult it will be to get someone to acknowledge that even though they have a bit of cosmetic problems they are still cute individual puppies.
Now I researched it and have had a lot of sites tell me that the harelip isn't hereditary but I am still completely unaware of what factors can cause this to happen.
As our other female became pregnant a few weeks ago, by chance and I do not wish to have to go through this again.
And hopefully on the approval of the vet we hope to continue to let our dogs breed. As we thoroughly enjoy havign the puppies around>
All of our puppies are extensivly touched from birth, (one of the boys is sleeping in my lap right now) and are well loved and looked after and when ready to go off to new homes are vet checked, vaccinated and microchipped.
We are not a puppy farm nor are we trying to build one.
We are just a animal loving family who is extremely saddened by the idea of possibly needing to destroy these beautiful pups.
If anyone has any info on past experiences or how this occurs please help!?

I would think a breeder and lover of the breed would know the proper name of their dogs... Its SHIH TZU...

As far as you claiming to not be a puppy farm.. uhm.. you may be doing the right thing medically for them, and you may be finding them decent homes.. but you are still producing more puppies than needbe.

As far as the puppies with the cleft palate.. If they can eat fine.. let them live. You may not get your to price for them.. and I would also suggest you sell them on limited registration.. meaning.. these puppies need to be fixed before they get the papers (If the parents are even papared).

If I were you, I'd talk things over with your vet. If your vet feels as if these puppies are going to die at an early age due to aspiration, they they should be euthanized. If the vet feels as if they are eating fine and that this problem can be surgically fixed later in life.. then let the dogs live.

A puppy mill, sometimes known as a puppy farm, is a commercial dog breeding facility that is operated with an emphasis upon profits above animal welfare and is often in substandard conditions regarding the well-being of dogs in their care.. .

We don't even plan on selling the two boys..
We are happy to give them away for free to a loving family.
Our dogs don't live in substandard conditions and their well being is our highest priority.
And can I ask..
How is it that there is more puppies than need be?
We are not weird perverse people who monitor our dogs vagina to make sure she is in season nor do we cage our dogs to make sure they can't get away from our male.
We just have our dogs roaming our backyard and if they get pregnant we deal it with appropriately.
How is leaving it up to nature anything like puppy farming.
All our puppies in the past have found beautiful homes and have never had any problems with them..

I would like to know why you gave me a red mark on my post. It was not incorrect advise. When in doubt, always speak with your vet.. especially when it comes down to whether the animal should live or not..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellibelli

A puppy mill, sometimes known as a puppy farm, is a commercial dog breeding facility that is operated with an emphasis upon profits above animal welfare and is often in substandard conditions regarding the well-being of dogs in their care. ...

You're right.. You're not a puppy mill... You would be considered a backyard breeder.. and a pretty poor one at that. No decent breeder allows their females to be bred on every cycle. No decent breeder allows mutts to be produced by their breeding stock... You put to shame the people who are trying to better their breeds. You are the reason our shelters have too many unwanted dogs waiting to die.

Like I stated before.. If you were a true lover of the breed.. you'd at least know the proper name of the breed... But you didn't. Therefore I will peg you as an irrisponsible breeder. You may not be an actual puppy mill.. you're one step down.

Sorry we don't monitor our dogs vaginas to make sure we know when she is in heat.
I don't think I ever labeled myself as a breeder.
And if we had noticed we would not have allowed her to become pregnant.
And what do I give a flying **** if you think I'm a poor breeder or not. Clearly wasn't my question...
I was looking for people who had past experience about pups with a harelip.
So please if you have nothing to offer me please **** off :D

I know you're not going to like what I have to say, but I'm hoping that you'll listen anyway.

You do seem to love animals, but you did ask this question;

Quote:

how is it that there is more puppies than need be?

In the US alone, and only in the Humane society shelters (so this number doesn't include other shelters), 3-4 million dogs were euthanized this past year. The majority of the dogs in the shelters are from people just like you. I don't mean that you're bringing these dogs to the shelter, but the people that are adopting your dogs are.

So far you've had two litters. Let's do the math. I don't know what size your litters were, but the average is 5 puppies. So we'll say that so far you've brought 10 new dogs into this world. You plan to give them away. How many of the people you give them to also want to experience the miracle of life? Well, too many, but I'll be nice. Let's say that half the people you give your pups to decide to be like you and have a litter. So, 5 pups, and each of them will have 5 pups. That's 25 puppies. All of those puppies find new homes, and half have puppies of their own (and statistically more than half will have a litter, so I'm being generous) within the first year (because most backyard breeders breed their dogs young.

Let's do the math for a 5 year period.

Year one, half of your two litters (5 pups) will have a litter of 5;
5 x 5 = 25.

Year two, half of 25, we'll be generous again and say 12;
12 x 5 = 60

Year three, half of 60 is 30;
30 x 5 = 150

Year 4, half of 150 is 75;
75x5 = 375

Year 5, half of 375 we'll be nice and say 187;
187 x 5 = 935

In five years your two litters, if only half of the people the pups you produced bred their pups, and half the people they sold to bred theirs, and again, the stats are much higher, will have produced 1545 puppies.

More than half of those puppies will end up in the shelter, according to statistics done by shelters in the US and Canada. Worse, 1/5 of those dogs will end up being euthanized because there are simply not enough homes for all the dogs being produced.

I realize that you don't want to hear this. You think that you're just one person, and you love your dogs, so why should it matter if you want to have a few litters?

Here's something else to think about. There are already dogs in the shelter. Because you're breeding, and giving away these puppies, instead of someone getting a shelter dog, they're taking one of your adorable puppies. So, a shelter dog dies, when it could have found a home had you not bred your dog.

It's a tough pill to swallow, I know. I also know that you probably won't listen, you probably don't want to hear the facts, or you think they don't apply to you because you're only one person.

Well, one person can change the world. One person can make a difference.

1 out of 5 dogs in the shelter is adopted. The other 4 never find a home, and they're euthanized.

Here are 5 dogs that are currently in my local shelter. Can you choose the 4 that have to die because you want to breed? Look at them all. Do any of them deserve to die because of what human beings want?

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I realize this is a tough pill to swallow. There's nothing you can do about the two litters you've already had. They're here for better or for worse. But you can stop this. You can have your dogs spayed or neutered, which will prolong their life. You can stop dogs that are already here from dying.

This is something that's in your power. It's in your hands. How much of an animal lover are you? Enough to love all animals? Enough to help save them just by stopping what you're doing now?

The choice is yours. I hope I'm wrong and you'll listen. I really do, because I've been fighting this battle for a long time, and knowing that millions of dogs die every year, in the US alone, it breaks my heart. I can't imagine any animal lover that would allow this to continue if all they have to do is be a responsible pet owner.

Quote:

We have bred one female 3 times (not purposefully just left it to nature) and first litter was at 15months the second a year later. This final litter born a week ago was just 6 months after first litter.

Oh wait! I just read this part.

You bred her 3 times, and before she was 2 years old? Once 6 months apart? OMG!

For the health of a dog she should be at least 2 years of age before her first litter, so that was the first mistake. Any female, if you choose to breed, should only have 2 litters in her lifetime, and the litters should be at least 1 year, 2 is better, apart. Second and third mistake.

I'm not surprised that the third litter has health issues. I am shocked that the mom is still alive and healthy.

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And hopefully on the approval of the vet we hope to continue to let our dogs breed. As we thoroughly enjoy havign the puppies around>

You plan to breed her again?

Quote:

We are not a puppy farm nor are we trying to build one.
We are just a animal loving family who is extremely saddened by the idea of possibly needing to destroy these beautiful pups.

Sorry, but you are not what you describe. You've put not only the mom at risk, but the puppies as well. Puppies are adorable, but is it worth the life of the female? Is she just a breeding machine? It seems that she is, which makes your claim that you're not a puppy farm, unbelievable.

I can't respond to this. I have to go vomit now. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellibelli

sorry we dont monitor our dogs vaginas to make sure we know when she is in heat.
i dont think i ever labled myself as a breeder.
and if we had noticed we would not have allowed her to become pregant.
and what do i give a flying **** if you think im a poor breeder or not. clearly wasnt my question...
i was looking for people who had past experience about pups with a harelip.
so please if you have nothing to offer me please **** off :D

Whoa there, lady (I'm assuming)... Just because you got a bunch of info you refuse to hear, doesn't give you the right to run your mouth.. Even though the words are starred out.. I still know what you're saying :)

Not a breeder? If you produce more than one litter at a time, you are considered a breeder. It is up to you if you want to be called a backyard breeder, reputable breeder, or a puppy mill.

You breed your dogs, or allow your dogs to be bred.. on every single cycle. Not only is that unhealthy for the dog, it is also unnecessary. Look what you just produced.. you produced dogs with faults. I'm sure that this isn't going to be the last time. Are you waiting for a genetic fault? A fatal fault? What?

Do you just not have the money to spay or neuter your pets? Or is that evil and against "God's will"... I've dealt with psychos like you.. unfortunately, you will never do the what is right by your pet.. you will continue to produce puppies and place them in "good homes"... People who sell their dogs at Wal-Mart are selling to "good homes" as well... And we all know the reputation that wal-mart puppies have.

You're wrong on every level.. Reddie me all you want.. curse me out all you want.. YOU are wrong.

I feel bad for your dogs :( They're not going to live very long.

She was 15 months at her first litter and then 2 and a half for her second. Why do you make it seem like she's breeding every 6 months cause she's not.. :D just so you know
I live in australia so your american statistics mean nothing to me.

Since you seem to think no dogs get killed in your country I did some research. Not much as I do have to go to work soon. There is a Facebook group trying to get shelters in your country to go the no kill route so obviously there is an issue with dogs being killed while people like you overbreed and don't give a rats behind about your dogs or the pups that come out. Go work in a shelter and hold a dog being put down due to there being no one that wants it and then come back with your attitude. I feel bad for your dogs and YES YOU ARE A BACKYARD BREEDER.
https://www.facebook.com/nokillaustralia?sk=info

I'm going to assume these are outdoor dogs too and neither are breeds suited to living outdoors. If they were inside dogs there would be no need to "perversely monitor your dogs vagina", you would see blood spots on the furniture or carpet and know it's time to separate them.
Changes in behavior are key indicators as well so we can safely assume these dogs do not get a lot of attention.

Sounds like an unfair assumption?

Probably, but you really can't expect us to believe you don't know when your dog is in heat. You know full well that your dogs are breeding and when they are doing it. Don't try and pull the wool over our eyes, it won't fly here.

Do you yourself use contraception?
If the answer is yes then why not do the same for your dog? Separation is the easiest form of contraception if you are against spaying. It is simply not healthy to allow a dog to mate at random.

In regards to the health issue, it depends on how serious it is.
If it's more than a harelip and extends into a cleft palate then you may have to look into euthanasia. If it's a minor problem then surgery can correct it easy enough.

Look. I'm over reading these because you are getting the situation completely wrong.
So I'm not even reading your replies anymore.

You're in Australia? Their shelters are even worse then those in the US and Canada. I'm in Canada, the dogs that go to shelter here are not euthanized unless they're deemed unadoptable. Even then millions are euthanized each year because of over population from people like you. Most of these dogs are in the shelter for over a year, and eventually have to be euthanized because they go cage crazy.

In Australia, judging by the fb group that Mogrann posted, which I'm a part of, most dogs have 24 hours to be adopted before they're killed.

I volunteered in a shelter. I held dogs as the needle went in. Perfectly healthy dogs that should have found forever homes. But they were killed because there aren't homes out there for them. Why? Because people like you breed. There are too many people out there that don't care if they're buying from a puppymill or backyard breeder. They want a puppy, and they want it cheap (which puppymills and byb's provide).

Because of people like you millions of dogs die. If you don't care about that, which you stated you don't, then you cannot call yourself an animal lover. You don't even care enough about your own dogs to stop breeding them.

Don't reply. I didn't think you would read what we said and realize that you're doing a horrible thing. Most of the backyard breeders and puppymill owners that come here don't want to hear the truth, or accept their part in this huge issue. I didn't have hope that you'd be any different. But I had to try, because unlike you, I don't only care about my dogs, I care about all the dogs in this world. If I can save one life, then it's worth it. You however destroy thousands (which I showed you), and don't care.

By the way, did you look at the pictures I posted? Which 4 dogs did you choose to die? I can give you their names, their ages, their background. Will that make it easier to choose, or do you choose not to look at the pictures because you don't want it to be real? I promise you, it is real. Those are real dogs that are in the shelter as we speak. Only 1 out of the 5 I posted will find a home. The rest will die.

I hope you can live with the decisions you make. My advice to you would be to volunteer at the shelter for just one day. Ask to be placed in the kill room. Hold the dogs as they are put to sleep. If you can still say that you don't care after that, then there's nothing further I can say. Some people really don't care about anyone but themselves.

Australia isn't as big as the US either.. So to say you don't have that problem is a lie... It's probably not as big because the numbers aren't as big...