I was told that it wouold be an open adoption if I signed off on my children I would still be able to see them and get the report cards and pictures. The adopted parents were all right in the beginning with getting the pictures to me and keeping me posted on how they are doing and then things started to go down hill I was not allowed to see them up until about a year ago on a regular basis and then after one or two visits I got them ripped from me and then after about six months they were allowing me to see them again and that went on for about 6 to 8 months and now I am told that I am never going to be able to see them again or be able to send them anything for their birthdays or anything. Mt oldest daughter also needs to see a doctor and they are refusing to give her the medical attention that is needed. Does that seem to be right or is it possible that it could be overturned with a judge.

Your opportunity to overturn an adoption was ages ago--right after you placed your children.

There is no law in any state that allows for an adoption to be overturned simply because the adoptive parents didn't hold up their end of the "agreement" before the adoption. Birthparents have no "rights" to the children or to anything promised before the adoption--they give up those rights when they sign relinquishment papers. It's basically on an honor system that the adoptive parents will hold up their end of the deal.

However--with the on-again-off-again nature of your visits and contact, I'm wondering if YOU held up YOUR end. Have you pushed for more than what was originally agreed on? What made them decide to pull back to begin with? I think there is more to this story than you are telling us.

No I only got to see them when it was convienent for them the worst part of this is that I have a younger child that has had a bond with the older children and it has plated a toll on her and I both you just don't take and allow it and then within like a 6 months take it back and tear them apart again.

You have an OPEN adoption. Count yourself lucky that you got to see them at ALL. Many birthparents don't even get that.

And since the children they are raising are THEIR children (not yours anymore, though you will always love them)--they have to do what is best for the children. THEIR children.

Most adoptive parents I've talked to have stuck with their agreements with birthparents. The ones that have NOT done so have felt threatened by the birthmother. So I'm asking again--what changed or what did you do differently? Did you ask a lot for visits? Did you change the way you acted around their children?

Were you a disruption in your children's lives when you had visitation?

Why were some of your children placed and some left with you?

Was the Court system involved in this or did you decide one day to put your children up for adoption?

I think there's more to this story than your side.

I didn't ask for any more visits at all I just did the same things as I normally would and it is where they wouldn't give me any answers at all the only thing that I can think it is that the kids want ot be home with me and they are feeling threatened by that

Be glad you got what you have... legally they aren't your kids any more... and legally you have no rights when it comes to them.

And legally, they don't have to give you the time of day if they don't feel like it.

After they are adopted out... you have just as many rights as I would to any kids you have... which is essentially none.

Get testy with them, and I won't be surprised if they don't completely end all contact. Its in your best interest to be as nice as you can be with them. They hold all the cards.

That wasn't meant to be mean... its just pointing things out how they are.

Wow,

What kind of expert are you? I believe this birthmom because my daughter did an open adoption and 3 weeks later the adoptive parents took away 2 extremely important reasons my daughter did adoption. They told us it had nothing to do with my daughter, they were having a hard time bonding with the baby and could do what they wanted and what was best for them, was best for the baby. I am very sick of people doubting birthparents. Unless you have had a baby stolen from you, you have no right to assume things. My daughter did nothing wrong, the adoptive couple told her that. I am an educated mother of 3 daughters and up until this experience, I was a proponant of adoption. I can no longer support adoption in most cases. You do not get it, the birthparent gets to pick what they want for their baby and if the adoptive parents agree to that commitment, then they should always honor it! If they do not agree after taking the baby, it is fraud. The grief is the same grief as having one of your children abducted and that is worse than a child's death. The laws have to change in order to protect from this fraud of open adoption! I am a tired and sad mother of my daughter who was lied to in order to get a baby. People wake up and have compassion for the birthparents in this world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenfred

wow,

what kind of expert are you? I believe this birthmom because my daughter did an open adoption and 3 weeks later the adoptive parents took away 2 extremely important reasons my daughter did adoption. They told us it had nothing to do with my daughter, they were having a hard time bonding with the baby and could do what they wanted and what was best for them, was best for the baby. I am very sick of people doubting birthparents. Unless you have had a baby stolen from you, you have no right to assume things. My daughter did nothing wrong, the adoptive couple told her that. I am an educated mother of 3 daughters and up until this experience, I was a proponant of adoption. I can no longer support adoption in most cases. You do not get it, the birthparent gets to pick and choose what they want for thier baby and if the adoptive parents agree to that commitment, then they should always honor it! If they do not agree after taking the baby, it is fraud. The grief is the same grief as having one of your children abducted and that is worse than a childs death. The laws have to change in order to protect from this fraud of open adoption! I am a tired and sad mother of my daughter who was lied to in order to get a baby. People wake up and have compassion for the birthparents in this world.

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http://www.infantadoptionguide.com/open-adoption-contact-agreements

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenfred

wow,

what kind of expert are you? I believe this birthmom because my daughter did an open adoption and 3 weeks later the adoptive parents took away 2 extremely important reasons my daughter did adoption. They told us it had nothing to do with my daughter, they were having a hard time bonding with the baby and could do what they wanted and what was best for them, was best for the baby. I am very sick of people doubting birthparents. Unless you have had a baby stolen from you, you have no right to assume things. My daughter did nothing wrong, the adoptive couple told her that. I am an educated mother of 3 daughters and up until this experience, I was a proponant of adoption. I can no longer support adoption in most cases. You do not get it, the birthparent gets to pick and choose what they want for thier baby and if the adoptive parents agree to that commitment, then they should always honor it! If they do not agree after taking the baby, it is fraud. The grief is the same grief as having one of your children abducted and that is worse than a childs death. The laws have to change in order to protect from this fraud of open adoption! I am a tired and sad mother of my daughter who was lied to in order to get a baby. People wake up and have compassion for the birthparents in this world.

---

Is this post an example of your education? I'll just sit here and wait for Synnen to come back and tell you what kind of expert she is.

I will ask about the Attorneys who were involved and the research you did before entering into the open adoption.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. All I can tell you, is that what was done to my daughter was unethical to say the least and there is no protection for these birthparents if the adoptive couple changes their mind. And in my daughters case, she did nothing and had no contact with the adoptive couple, they just sent an email with what they were not going to honor any longer. My daughters attorney told the adoptive couple that they need to keep their word but even the attorney couldn't restore what they took away. So, I find it criminal but the courts could care less.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenfred

I dont understand what you are trying to say. All i can tell you, is that what was done to my daughter was unethical to say the least and there is no protection for these birthparents if the adoptive couple changes their mind. And in my daughters case, she did nothing and had no contact with the adoptive couple, they just sent an email with what they were not going to honor any longer. My daughters attorney told the adoptive couple that they need to keep their word but even the attorney couldnt restore what they took away. So, i find it criminal but the courts could care less.

---

It comes down to the original contract - what did it say?

Why didn't your daughter choose to keep the baby? I'm not criticizing - pregnancies can happen at the worst time. I'm just wondering why she decided adoption was an option, particularly an open adoption.

I don't know if I could watch my daughter calling someone else "Mom" and being raised by someone else. I would prefer no contact over limited contact.

Why that decision?

Judy--in most places you can't even HAVE a contract between the adoptive parents and the birthparents. It's a gentleman's agreement, and both sides just have to have faith that the other will hold up their end of the bargain. Unfortunately, before the birth, the birthparents have ALL of the rights, and after the adoption, the adoptive parents have ALL of the rights.

It sucks, but you can't have contracts because it's too close to baby selling.

As for my credentials---I'm a birthmom to a 20 year old and have been involved in the adoption community for nearly 21 years now. While I had a good experience with my child's adoptive parents, I get the grief your daughter is going through. Unfortunately, until laws get changed, she still has no legal rights---and the adoptive parents DO have to do what is best for the baby and themselves. I got counseled during the adoption process that the adoptive parents don't have to uphold ANYTHING--and that was 20 years ago. I can't imagine that they've skipped that step now.

I really suggest your daughter join a birthparent support group. Lutheran Social Services has them in most areas, as do other non-profits like Catholic Charities. You do not have to belong to the religion to join the support groups, and they really are a place to get support from others who have walked in your shoes. I also STRONGLY recommend she see a counselor who has experience with adoption issues and grief counseling. It will help. My counselor pulled me back from suicidal thoughts not long after the adoption was finalized.

Am I a lawyer? Nope. Just a birthmom who has dealt with hundreds of other birth mothers in different places in their adoption story, and from different eras of adoption. Because of the way society views adoption, I wouldn't wish being a birthparent on my worst enemy--but for some women, it is still the best choice they could make with the options they have. But laws DO need to change, and more studies need to be done to help determine HOW the laws should be changed. We can't have people just "change their mind" 8 years after they chose adoption, but we need to hold adoptive parents accountable for the promises they make---they can promise the MOON to get that baby in their hands, and disappear afterwards and no one can do anything about it--and make sure that ALL parties understand the choice they are making and the long term consequences of that choice.

Yes, my daughter and my whole family meeds counseling. She is at college trying to focus on school with all this stress.

My question to the attorneys is; How can we change adoption laws? I have no idea how where to start. I would gladly be an advocate and try to do my part. How is this done?

Only the Politicians can change laws... you would have to lobby enough of them to take up the cause and they would have to persuade enough people to get a bill proposed and through the system before it may or may not be vetoed by the Gov or President.

You have a major uphill battle ahead of you... its not impossible... but it will be very unlikely to succeed.

Don't need a Lawyer to tell you that... its in every Jr. High Civics Class textbook.

Get in contact with other birthparents that want to change the law as well, and then contact your local lawmakers. Having an attorney on retainer to help you with the legalese is not a bad idea either.

I highly recommend doing a LOT of research before you just jump in and try to change laws. I've been working with others on this for a long time, and still am not sure HOW the law needs to be changed. The primary person the law needs to benefit is the ADOPTEE, not the adoptive parents or birthparents. I've also been in the unique position of having to consider adoption--my husband and I dealt with 10 years of infertility after I placed my child for adoption. The laws cannot solely benefit birthparents, either, because there ARE birthparents that overstep their boundaries and try to parent when they've given up that right.

The main law that I've come up with that NEEDS to happen is mandatory counseling--paid for by the ADOPTIVE parents--for all parties involved. And not just leading up to the adoption---it should be paid for at least 5 years following the adoption as well. I also think that limited contracts should be allowed--but I also agree that contracts can come dangerously close to baby-selling, especially for those birthparents who benefit during the pregnancy by having all expenses paid for by the adoptive parents. There should also be some way to persecute for fraud and/or have the adoption overturned if adoptive parents do not work to honor their agreements---but I ALSO think that birthparents should be liable for all expenses paid by the perspective adoptive parents if they change their mind, so as to prevent fraud from happening in that direction as well.

The biggest problem isn't the laws---it's how society sees adoption. Or doesn't see it, because they choose not to see the pain involved in adoption, from BOTH sets of parents. Before you can change laws, you have to change attitudes, and that means putting your story--or rather, your daughter putting HER story out there. Start a blog. Start contacting lawmakers for your state ad nauseum. Get her to contact the media to tell her story. If it were made public how many adoptive parents promise the moon and then back out, there would be a serious backlash on an industry that is already hurting---fewer than 4% of all unplanned pregnancies end in adoption, meaning that for every child placed for adoption, over 30 couples pray to be the ones chosen. If even FEWER young women choose adoption because adoptive parents act like jerks, there WILL be an industry backlash, and there WILL be legislative changes.

All your daughter can do is tell her story---to as many people as she can possibly get it out to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Get in contact with other birthparents that want to change the law as well, and then contact your local lawmakers. Having an attorney on retainer to help you with the legalese is not a bad idea either.

I highly recommend doing a LOT of research before you just jump in and try to change laws. I've been working with others on this for a long time, and still am not sure HOW the law needs to be changed. The primary person the law needs to benefit is the ADOPTEE, not the adoptive parents or birthparents. I've also been in the unique position of having to consider adoption--my husband and I dealt with 10 years of infertility after I placed my child for adoption. The laws cannot solely benefit birthparents, either, because there ARE birthparents that overstep their boundaries and try to parent when they've given up that right.

The main law that I've come up with that NEEDS to happen is mandatory counseling--paid for by the ADOPTIVE parents--for all parties involved. And not just leading up to the adoption---it should be paid for at least 5 years following the adoption as well. I also think that limited contracts should be allowed--but I also agree that contracts can come dangerously close to baby-selling, especially for those birthparents who benefit during the pregnancy by having all expenses paid for by the adoptive parents. There should also be some way to persecute for fraud and/or have the adoption overturned if adoptive parents do not work to honor their agreements---but I ALSO think that birthparents should be liable for all expenses paid by the perspective adoptive parents if they change their mind, so as to prevent fraud from happening in that direction as well.

The biggest problem isn't the laws---it's how society sees adoption. Or doesn't see it, because they choose not to see the pain involved in adoption, from BOTH sets of parents. Before you can change laws, you have to change attitudes, and that means putting your story--or rather, your daughter putting HER story out there. Start a blog. Start contacting lawmakers for your state ad nauseum. Get her to contact the media to tell her story. If it were made public how many adoptive parents promise the moon and then back out, there would be a serious backlash on an industry that is already hurting---fewer than 4% of all unplanned pregnancies end in adoption, meaning that for every child placed for adoption, over 30 couples pray to be the ones chosen. If even FEWER young women choose adoption because adoptive parents act like jerks, there WILL be an industry backlash, and there WILL be legislative changes.

All your daughter can do is tell her story---to as many people as she can possibly get it out to.

---

Thank you, these are the answers I am looking for, a practical way to start. I also know there has to be protection for adoptive parents, there are birthparents who interfere most likely. I do not know of any. I also agree that the baby should be the most important one in this situation. But I also believe that through researching adoption, it is always best for birthparents to raise their babies if they are responsible and able, if not, then the next best situation is for the adoptive parents and birthparents to work together in the relationship as to always allow the adoptee to know and have some contact in their growing up years. This is far better emotionally and healthier then them growing up and then finding out they are adopted and who the birthparents are. It is a security and a normal in their life that allows them to never question who they are. This is why my daughter chose open adoption, for her baby, not herself. She has told me it may be better for her to have a closed adoption.

What is right for my daughters child is that these adoptive parents give her back because the PLAN for this baby will not be fulfilled in the best interest of her. What the adoptive parents are doing is only thinking about themselves. This is wrong. They needed a closed adoption and should NOW relinquish this precious baby back to my daughter. If my daughter takes them to court for fraud, on the very slim chance she will win, these adoptive parents should understand that being in court for one year and them possibly losing would not be healthy for the baby. They need to think of this baby and she is best with her biological mother because she is capable and has much family support. This was never the plan for my daughter, she was supposed to be able move on with her life knowing that all will be good, and the agreement would be honored. I often wonder what this would all be like if we had wonderful adoptive parents and how it would be if they just would have kept their word.

I want the law to be able to set a precedence in court on adoptive couples who are a fraudulent in the pursuit of desperation of a child and a mandatory class being required to talk about the pain of birthparents and what is appropriate and not. Also to self identify what type of adoption they can handle. Because clearly this couple didn't understand themselves well enough. These are just a few things that would help both adoptive couples and birthparents. And the adoption industry from failing. If adoptive parents know that they can have a child taken away from breaking an agreement, they would think hard about the promises they make to birthparents for themselves and have no doubt of what they have to do.

By the way, the couple my daughter gave her baby to, they have 2 boys and plan to have more. This is a mom who has give birth and should know better.
Thank you for your ideas!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenfred

Thank you, these are the answers I am looking for, a practical way to start. I also know there has to be protection for adoptive parents, there are birthparents who interfere most likely. I do not know of any. I also agree that the baby should be the most important one in this situation. But I also believe that through researching adoption, it is always best for birthparents to raise their babies if they are responsible and able, if not, then the next best situation is for the adoptive parents and birthparents to work together in the relationship as to always allow the adoptee to know and have some contact in their growing up years. This is far better emotionally and healthier then them growing up and then finding out they are adopted and who the birthparents are. It is a security and a normal in their life that allows them to never question who they are. This is why my daughter chose open adoption, for her baby, not herself. She has told me it may be better for her to have a closed adoption.

What is right for my daughters child is that these adoptive parents give her back because the PLAN for this baby will not be fulfilled in the best interest of her. What the adoptive parents are doing is only thinking about themselves. This is wrong. They needed a closed adoption and should NOW relinquish this precious baby back to my daughter. If my daughter takes them to court for fraud, on the very slim chance she will win, these adoptive parents should understand that being in court for one year and them possibly losing would not be healthy for the baby. They need to think of this baby and she is best with her biological mother because she is capable and has much family support. This was never the plan for my daughter, she was supposed to be able move on with her life knowing that all will be good, and the agreement would be honored. I often wonder what this would all be like if we had wonderful adoptive parents and how it would be if they just would have kept their word.

I want the law to be able to set a precedence in court on adoptive couples who are a fraudulent in the pursuit of desperation of a child and a mandatory class being required to talk about the pain of birthparents and what is appropriate and not. Also to self identify what type of adoption they can handle. Because clearly this couple didnt understand themselves well enough. These are just a few things that would help both adoptive couples and birthparents. And the adoption industry from failing. If adoptive parents know that they can have a child taken away from breaking an agreement, they would think hard about the promises they make to birthparents for themselves and have no doubt of what they have to do.

By the way, the couple my daughter gave her baby to, they have 2 boys and plan to have more. This is a mom who has give birth and should know better.
Thank you for your ideas!

---

I know I'm in the minority here, but this post makes my stomach turn for several reason.

The couple has two boys and plans to have more children. I can understand that the plan to have more children may not have been revealed. No one noticed they already had two boys? Didn't your daughter select these people? How did the adoptive parents get into contact with your daughter?

And this part - "If my daughter takes them to court for fraud, on the very slim chance she will win, these adoptive parents should understand that being in court for one year and them possibly losing would not be healthy for the baby ..." is an outright threat to the parents.

Where was all this family support at the time of the adoption: "They need to think of this baby and she is best with her biological mother because she is capable and has much family support." She has suddenly become capable with family support?

For that matter where is the baby's father in all of this?

I'm not saying at all that what the adoptive parents did is legally or morally right or fair. I am saying that ALL parties in this adoption should have received counseling. All I know about what transpired is what you have posted. I've been in the legal "industry" too long. I'd love to hear the adoptive parents' side of things.

Right up there with the "keep your promises" clause should be a "what happens if the bio mother becomes a large pain in the neck" clause. I'm not saying that's what happened here. I am saying I see that it could happen.

And, yes, I have some experience regarding adoption. A member of my family "adopted" a baby, went through an Attorney, paid for two Attorneys, all of the mother's expenses, the baby's expenses, everything. Pick the baby up at the hospital, all was well. Then the mother started dragging her feet. After three months "Mom," who now had a supportive family (the same family that helped her make the decision that the baby be adopted) demanded the return of the child. The child was returned to the mother. Would counselling have changed anything? I have no idea. Changed my mind about private adoptions. This thread has changed my mind about open adoptions.

This baby is being discussed like she's a carnival prize.

Judy... my adoption is an open adoption. Please don't get the wrong idea about them. For most people, they are FAR better than closed, secretive adoptions. And by most people, I mean for birthparents and adoptees.

Of COURSE it is easier for adoptive parents to have closed adoptions! It's easier to ignore the pain of the birthparents that way, and easier to "pretend" the baby is only theirs.

Counseling should be there for EVERY adoption--for ALL parties. Adoptive parents forget the pain part when they're excited for a new baby, and birthparents don't really understand all that they are giving up. The first year is SO HARD. SO hard. You have to have a will of steel to not want to change your mind--and I do not know one single birthmother that was not at least tempted to try to do so. Of course it crosses your mind! For birthparents, adoption is like a death--you have to grieve it as such, and society WILL NOT LET YOU. It was your CHOICE, so you're not allowed to be sad and angry and want to change your mind to overturn that "death" and have your baby back.

It's amazing how people tell you how strong you are, and how wonderful, and how happy you've made those adoptive parents, but forget HOW MUCH you've given up, and how very much you need to grieve it. If you compare it to a death, people get angry with you and say "at least you know your baby is alive and out there somewhere! I lost such-and-such relation, and would give ANYTHING to have him/her back!" Well... so would birthparents---give anything to have their child back, I mean.

It's incredibly complicated and hard to legislate because it is ALL about emotions. 100% of all the changes anyone wants to make to adoption law are based on their emotions. And they're HARD emotions--grief, anger, betrayal, anguish, loss--on BOTH sides. Adoptive parents don't always understand that they get the package these days. What the hell birthmom is going to agree to a closed adoption when she CAN demand visits and letters and information on the child? If one set of parents won't do it, another will. And what adoptive parent is going to truthfully say "I don't want you, just your baby. Go away!" until AFTER the adoption is final?

Don't slam open adoptions. Be angry with the people who are not honest with themselves or not honest with the other parents who make open adoption into a fight. I cannot blame a birthparent for wanting to rip their baby back out of the arms of an adoptive couple who does not uphold their end of the agreement, no matter how painful for them. They have the child--they have to live with the cost, emotionally and mentally, of that child--and that includes keeping their promises to the birthparent. Same thing with birthparents that overstep---they have to be reminded, sometimes by cutting any EXTRA contact out, of what they agreed to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Judy...my adoption is an open adoption. Please don't get the wrong idea about them. For most people, they are FAR better than closed, secretive adoptions. And by most people, I mean for birthparents and adoptees.

Of COURSE it is easier for adoptive parents to have closed adoptions! It's easier to ignore the pain of the birthparents that way, and easier to "pretend" the baby is only theirs.

Counseling should be there for EVERY adoption--for ALL parties. Adoptive parents forget the pain part when they're excited for a new baby, and birthparents don't really understand all that they are giving up. The first year is SO HARD. SO hard. You have to have a will of steel to not want to change your mind--and I do not know one single birthmother that was not at least tempted to try to do so. Of course it crosses your mind! For birthparents, adoption is like a death--you have to grieve it as such, and society WILL NOT LET YOU. It was your CHOICE, so you're not allowed to be sad and angry and want to change your mind to overturn that "death" and have your baby back.

It's amazing how people tell you how strong you are, and how wonderful, and how happy you've made those adoptive parents, but forget HOW MUCH you've given up, and how very much you need to grieve it. If you compare it to a death, people get angry with you and say "at least you know your baby is alive and out there somewhere! I lost such-and-such relation, and would give ANYTHING to have him/her back!" Well....so would birthparents---give anything to have their child back, I mean.

It's incredibly complicated and hard to legislate because it is ALL about emotions. 100% of all the changes anyone wants to make to adoption law are based on their emotions. And they're HARD emotions--grief, anger, betrayal, anguish, loss--on BOTH sides. Adoptive parents don't always understand that they get the package these days. What the hell birthmom is going to agree to a closed adoption when she CAN demand visits and letters and information on the child? If one set of parents won't do it, another will. And what adoptive parent is going to truthfully say "I don't want you, just your baby. Go away!" until AFTER the adoption is final?

Don't slam open adoptions. Be angry with the people who are not honest with themselves or not honest with the other parents who make open adoption into a fight. I cannot blame a birthparent for wanting to rip their baby back out of the arms of an adoptive couple who does not uphold their end of the agreement, no matter how painful for them. They have the child--they have to live with the cost, emotionally and mentally, of that child--and that includes keeping their promises to the birthparent. Same thing with birthparents that overstep---they have to be reminded, sometimes by cutting any EXTRA contact out, of what they agreed to.

---

I know yours was an open adoption, and I know how frank you are about it, about the painful decision, about all the wise and warm advice you've given through the years. I'm not just paying you lip service. You know I respect you.

I am not slamming all open adoptions or adoptions in general, not at all. I also realize that cases in which the adoptive parents back out of the agreement are brought to Court, and in several States (I've been looking up the law) Courts have the ability to decide if an open adoption is in the best interest of the baby. I have seen no cases where failure to comply with the agreement has resulted in the return of the baby.

And I agree - the birth mother has made an agonizing decision, signed an agreement (or contract in some States) and it has blown up in her face. I get that.

What I don't get is when it's not just about the adoptive parents refusing to comply - that very legitimate argument that the adoptive parents have morally and perhaps legally ignored the contract/agreement is watered down. The adoptive parents already have two children; the adoptive parents plan to have more children; the birth mother has extended family and family support. Did no one look at the total picture before the papers were signed?

And in an open adoption, who selects the adoptive parents? How are the birth and adoptive parents put in contact with other? Maybe my problem, if I have a problem, is that I don't understand the basic process. Is there some sort of psych evaluation on both sides?

Then there's the birth father who presumably has signed his rights away, probably underwent his own emotional trauma, believes he is not responsible for supporting his child, has moved on with his life - and now his life is being upset.

I don't see this as a simple signed contract/broken contract problem. I see all sorts of grey between the black and the white.

This is on the Family Law board. Sorry if the OP (who isn't actually the OP) doesn't want to answer questions or give info. Perhaps one of the Family Boards would be a better choice. Legal advice/suggestions requires a lot more info than what's been offered.