... and what should he expect from you?

I'm asking this question in relation to a thread I posted in the Relationship Section, but I'm just curious from a female's perspective as to what you all expect from a guy you just met on your first and/or second and third dates.

Do you expect the guy to make moves on you physically? Or do you expect that he keeps his hands to himself (not even holding your waist or hands) and just talk and get to know you? Would you prefer the guy to show some physical interest?

Conversely, what do you all expect a guy to expect from YOU? If you're really into him, what signs, if any, would you show on the first/second date?

Pat, my dear, you are really overthinking this and making yourself into an emotional mess. But, I will try to help and answer your questions to give you some insight into the femal psyche.

Everyone is different and each of us expect different things out of a relationship. But, when you are just starting, most women do not want a guy groping her or pushing her too hard for intimacy (that means, kissing, touching, hugging, sex). Initially, on the surface, like men, women respond to looks. But, after that, I for one, need to be able to find a mental connection in order for me to want more from a guy.

I like to talk with him about life in general, funny stories from both of our lives, my work life, my parents and friends. Very typical stuff. I expect the guy to want to do the same. I want to go out for dinner and talk. Go to the movies. I love to read and want someone who does the same so that we can trade books and talk about them. I keep up with the world news and want someone to do the same so we can have some fascinating discussions about our world views. I love antiques and love to browse junk shops and go to auctions from time to time. Those are turn ons for me if the guy is into the same things I am. Knowing that I can have a rational discussion with someone. Listening to their point of view. Asking questions without being argumentative and receiving thoughtful and thought provoking answers. Those are what I look for in a mate, and expect from him.

What I do not want is someone making me feel uncomfortable by trying to touch me too quickly. Don't start trying to kiss, hold my hand, or grope me while I am having a conversation with you. Personally, I like letting a man know when I am ready to initiate any physical contact. When a man does that too soon, he is coming on too strong and it is a bit scary and makes me push him away.

On first date. Talking about things I have heard on the news, telling funny stories about my past, asking about his life. I would like him to do the same. I like to keep things light and figure out from his answers whether I want to see him again. Do not want someone trying to get me into bed on the first date. Shows me where his priorities are at this point in time and my priorities are not there at this point. A hug and quick kiss at the end of the date are nice. They let me know he is interested in me.

On second date and third dates. Do something that you both have found you like doing through discussion on first date. Do those things and keep talking and getting to know each other. Talk about worklife, talk about friends, talk more about my likes/dislikes, his likes/dislikes. A longer hug and some good deeper kissing is very nice at the end of the date if I am interested and the opportunity presents itself.

I know you stated in an earlier post that you are not looking to get into a relationship right now. Well, expect most of those women who respond to you from Match.com to be looking to get into one. That is why they are there. Take your cues from what they say in their initial presentation of themselves. If they say they just want to date and not have a long term relationship, then okay. But, most do not do that when they turn to a dating place.

Hope this helps you.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Pat, my dear, you are really overthinking this and making yourself into an emotional mess. But, I will try to help and answer your quesions to give you some insight into the femal psyche.

Everyone is different and each of us expect different things out of a relationship. But, when you are just starting off, most women do not want a guy groping her or pushing her too hard for intimacy (that means, kissing, touching, hugging, sex). Initially, on the surface, like men, women respond to looks. But, after that, I for one, need to be able to find a mental connection in order for me to want more from a guy.

I like to talk with him about life in general, funny stories from both of our lives, my work life, my parents and friends. Very typical stuff. I expect the guy to want to do the same. I want to go out for dinner and talk. Go to the movies. I love to read and want someone who does the same so that we can trade books and talk about them. I keep up with the world news and want someone to do the same so we can have some fascinating discussions about our world views. I love antiques and love to browse junk shops and go to auctions from time to time. Those are turn ons for me if the guy is into the same things I am. Knowing that I can have a rational discussion with someone. Listening to their point of view. Asking questions without being argumentative and receiving thoughtful and thought provoking answers. Those are what I look for in a mate, and expect from him.

What I do not want is someone making me feel uncomfortable by trying to touch me too quickly. Don't start trying to kiss, hold my hand, or grope me while I am having a conversation with you. Personally, I like letting a man know when I am ready to initiate any physical contact. When a man does that too soon, he is coming on too strong and it is a bit scary and makes me push him away.

On first date. Talking about things I have heard on the news, telling funny stories about my past, asking about his life. I would like him to do the same. I like to keep things light and figure out from his answers whether I want to see him again. Do not want someone trying to get me into bed on the first date. Shows me where his priorities are at this point in time and my priorities are not there at this point. A hug and quick kiss at the end of the date are nice. They let me know he is interested in me.

On second date and third dates. Do something that you both have found you like doing through discussion on first date. Do those things and keep talking and getting to know each other. Talk about worklife, talk about friends, talk more about my likes/dislikes, his likes/dislikes. A longer hug and some good deeper kissing is very nice at the end of the date if I am interested and the opportunity presents itself.

I know you stated in an earlier post that you are not looking to get into a relationship right now. Well, expect most of those women who respond to you from Match.com to be looking to get into one. That is why they are there. Take your cues from what they say in their initial presentation of themselves. If they say they just want to date and not have a long term relationship, then okay. But, most do not do that when they turn to a dating place.

Hope this helps you.

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Yeah that helped a lot actually! I think I'm right on track then. I've pretty much done exactly what you just wrote, and I didn't even try to kiss her or whatever. Just hugs and holding her waist a bit while we walked. But yeah, I think a lot.

Good. Glad I could help. You seem like a nice and thoughtful man. Most women like that. Just be yourself and don't worry. I am sure everything will fall into place as long as you are yourself and try not to be someone you are not. Don't listen to your guy friends. They don't have enough experience with real relationships to be in a position to dispense constructive advice.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Good. Glad I could help. You seem like a nice and thoughtful man. Most women like that. Just be yourself and don't worry. I am sure everything will fall into place as long as you are yourself and try not to be someone you are not. Don't listen to your guy friends. They don't have enough experience with real relationships to be in a position to dispense constructive advice.

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Yeah, I am your textbook nice guy... lol. I guess I could stand to be a tad more aggressive but only unless the opportunity presents itself. It'd be weird to do something out of context of the situation. It's just creepy and that would definitely end the date... lol.

Yes. It would most definitely be creepy if a guy I didn't know that well tried putting his hands all over me. I can positively state I would run in the opposite direction. When I was younger, that did happen to me. I have had stalkers. Very messed up and scary.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Yes. It would most definitely be creepy if a guy I didn't know that well tried putting his hands all over me. I can positively state I would run in the opposite direction. When I was younger, that did happen to me. I have had stalkers. Very messed up and scary.

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Ruby, what kind of signs do/did you give off to the guy that you wanted him to initiate affection? Maybe I'm just not reading this girl right or any girl for that matter... lol. Like, sometimes when we walked she'd brush up against me with her arm/body.. I don't know if that was a sign.. lol.

Like, sometimes when we walked she'd brush up against me with her arm/body..i dunno if that was a sign..lol

Probably not a sign. When you are walking side by side on a busy street/sidewalk, you have a tendency to walk closely because you don't want bump into the people walking from the opposite direction. Also, if it is cold out, you have a tendency to walk close. In both of those instances, sometimes you misstep and bump into your walking partner.

I saw your post on your other question about initiating contact. It will probably be when the two of you are sitting closely and speaking to each other. She will lean in closer than she normally has in the past, and will be staring directly into your eyes. That, my friend, is when you make your move. Any time before that, it is a gamble.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Like, sometimes when we walked she'd brush up against me with her arm/body..i dunno if that was a sign..lol

Probably not a sign. When you are walking side by side on a busy street/sidewalk, you have a tendency to walk closely because you don't want bump into the people walking from the opposite direction. Also, if it is cold out, you have a tendency to walk close. In both of those instances, sometimes you misstep and bump into your walking partner.

I saw your post on your other question about initiating contact. It will probably be when the two of you are sitting closely and speaking to each other. She will lean in closer than she normally has in the past, and will be staring directly into your eyes. That, my friend, is when you make your move. Any time before that, it is a gamble.

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Hmm interesting. Now that you say that, she did kind of do that. On our first date, we'd talk but not look at each others eyes for long... we'd kind of look away at the table or behind one another.

This second date, when we were having coffee, she did lean in more, and we locked eyes when we talked for several seconds at a time. There was more of a connection and I guess we were both more comfortable.

But this girl has been really hard to read because she's kind of quiet and sometimes she'd walk ahead of me... lol. But she drove over an hour on less than a day's notice to see me, so she must see something she likes.

But this girl has been really hard to read because she's kinda quiet and sometimes she'd walk ahead of me...lol. But she drove over an hour on less than a day's notice to see me, so she must see something she likes.

That does say a lot Pat. Yes, I do think she likes you.

What I am talking about locking on your eyes, there is no hesitation, no looking away. You will kind of feel the sexual tension rising between you if there is chemistry. When you are in that position, with eyes locked and very close, you could always just ask her, "Can I kiss you?" I had that happen a few times and it was kind of a nice rush.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

But this girl has been really hard to read because she's kinda quiet and sometimes she'd walk ahead of me...lol. But she drove over an hour on less than a day's notice to see me, so she must see something she likes.

That does say a lot Pat. Yes, I do think she likes you.

What I am talking about locking on your eyes, there is no hesitation, no looking away. You will kind of feel the sexual tension rising between you if there is chemistry. When you are in that position, with eyes locked and very close, you could always just ask her, "Can I kiss you?" I had that happen a few times and it was kind of a nice rush.

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Well, this all shows how much experience I've had. :(

Every girl is different I've found. I always thought the same thing would work across the board. My ex was very different from the girl I met after she broke up with me, and now this girl is even more different.

I just need more confidence in myself. It's weird how a girl can like me but yet I still clam up and come off as aloof to stuff.

Just like guys, woman are all different. This girl sounds a bit shy. And, also from the way you have described her, very sweet (driving all that way), and very cute.

Confidence usually builds with age and experience. You sound like a great guy, it sounds like she is into you, just go with it and don't worry so much. The most important thing to remember is find the things you have in common and do one of those things that you like to do together. Keep the communication going. Ask her questions about herself. Show you are interested in really getting to know her. Those are all things women like.

Hey ruby would you ancer I question I've neen dying to have ancered?



Send me private message if yes

Sorry Greywizard. I have been told by an administrator that I should avoid private messages and encourage people to post on the boards.

So, if you have a serious question, please post it for all to see in whatever forum you feel it is appropriate to ask. You can tell me on this posting what forum you have posted in. If there is a question that you have been dying to have answered, I am sure there are other people that may have the same question but are too afraid to ask. Since no one knows who you are, your privacy is safe. And if it is something of a sexual nature, guaranteed, there will be other people who will like to have their opinion on the subject matter heard. It may be something I cannot answer and someone else can.

Hey guys, just wanted to update this thread.

So I called this girl and left her a message on Thursday asking if she wanted to do something again this weekend and she didn't call me back. I Imed her last night and we talked for a bit and I don't think it's going to work out anymore. I'll post the conversation we had (deleted names of course to protect privacy) but you guys will see what I mean:

MANOFSTEEL: oh I don't know if you got my message but do you know how to dance?
HER: umm what message? And what kind of dance?
MANOFSTEEL: oh I called you yesterday and I left a message
HER: yea my phone is really gay, if I'm in a bad area calls don't come through
MANOFSTEEL: there's this jazz club that I was thinking of taking you to if you were feeling adventurous and wanted to watch me suck at dancing... but I figured learning wouldn't hurt
HER: jazz huh, I've take a few lessons before, but man has it been awhile
MANOFSTEEL: I took a lesson at that place once... as a present from my mom actually... lol
HER: haha, well I know one thing and that your mom is cool lol
MANOFSTEEL: they were good... they block off an hour from 8-9 I think for beginners lessons before all the people come in
MANOFSTEEL: yeah she's always making suggestions on how I can be more cultured and
HER: LOL
HER: funny
MANOFSTEEL: so do you want to go?
HER: humm maybe. I'm not really comfortable dancing in front of a lot of people unless its dark and I'm drunk haha
HER: I actually haven't even been to a dance club in over a year
MANOFSTEEL: I hardly go unless my friends drag me
MANOFSTEEL: I prefer pubs over clubs
HER: yea me too
HER: plus there usually isn't a cover charge at a bar
MANOFSTEEL: well that was my other idea... Mike's pub downtown
MANOFSTEEL: I figured we could go 3 for 3 since hanging out with you has been pretty fun
HER: aww thanks, it has been fun, I def think next time we got to check out some of these city bars everyone goes to
HER: u said you go near the uni right?
MANOFSTEEL: yeah
HER: well next time I'm in the city we'll have to plan a night out in town
MANOFSTEEL: OK cool
HER: once I actually move there, it will be a little easier to plan stuff
MANOFSTEEL: yeah I know the drive throws a little wrench into it
HER: yea a little
HER: plus this energy I don't really have
MANOFSTEEL: yeah I know what you mean
MANOFSTEEL: I make myself go out because Saturday is the only day I have really to be social and stuff
HER: yea, isn't that sad when you got to make yourself go out?
MANOFSTEEL: we're old haha
HER: yea, we sure r
HER: but anyway, I got to get going
HER: I got cookies waiting for me downstairs :-)
MANOFSTEEL: OK have a good night... if you change your mind just give me a call because I'm going to be out there anyway with some friends
MANOFSTEEL: (the ones you met and some others)
HER: OK cool, have a wonderful evening, ttyl :-)

She likes me, but not enough to pursue it more I guess. Or she just doesn't want to drive... lol. Either way I'm going to back off this one and go out with that other girl on Monday night.

Comments/advice are welcome.

Patrick. Hmmm. How do I put this. Although you were nice, you were a bit of a jerk. I will explain below further. But, it is not because she doesn't want to drive. She is being pretty straight forward. She doesn't dance and if you ask her to dance again, she will say no. She likes you man.

But, you left the invitation open, didn't make a definite commitment as to when you wanted to see her. You basically told her that you already had plans with your friends so you weren't available to go out tonight. For me, I would think the guy is being a bit of a jerk because he is telling me I am an afterthought. "Hey, I am busy with my friends tonight, but thought that if you want to join us,..." That is not being considerate of her feelings and you are most definitely letting her know that although she will be driving a long way, she will be hanging out with you and your friends. Not just you. At this point in your "relationship" you don't know her well enough. Bringing your friends into the picture is too soon. You need to date her. Just you. Not you and your friends dating her.

This is what you need to do. Send her an e-mail. Tell you are sorry that you made other plans and assumed she would just go. Ask her if she is free next Saturday, it will just be the two of you, and, if she has any suggestions on what she would like to do, that you are more than willing to take her. Tell her you have had fun with her (again - I know you kind of mentioned it before) and you want to go out with her again.

DO NOT wait until Thursday to send this. Send it Sunday or Monday. When a guy contacts us on Thursday to see if we are available on the weekend, it pisses us off. We usually have made plans for the weekend by then. If it is a guy we like, we need to know within a few days of the last date that they are interested in seeing us again either the next weekend or the following one.

If she blows you off, you will have your answer as to whether this girl wants to continue dating you. In the meantime, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't go out with others you have met through Match.com and you should. But, if you are really interested in this girl, you need to make a concerted effort to let her know that you really like her.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Patrick. Hmmm. How do I put this. Although you were nice, you were a bit of a jerk. I will explain below further. But, it is not because she doesn't want to drive. She is being pretty straight forward. She doesn't dance and if you ask her to dance again, she will say no. She likes you man.

But, you left the invitation open, didn't make a definite commitment as to when you wanted to see her. You basically told her that you already had plans with your friends so you weren't available to go out tonight. For me, I would think the guy is being a bit of a jerk because he is telling me I am an afterthought. "Hey, I am busy with my friends tonight, but thought that if you want to join us,..." That is not being considerate of her feelings and you are most definitely letting her know that although she will be driving a long way, she will be hanging out with you and your friends. Not just you. At this point in your "relationship" you don't know her well enough. Bringing your friends into the picture is too soon. You need to date her. Just you. Not you and your friends dating her.

This is what you need to do. Send her an e-mail. Tell you are sorry that you made other plans and assumed she would just go. Ask her if she is free next Saturday, it will just be the two of you, and, if she has any suggestions on what she would like to do, that you are more than willing to take her. Tell her you have had fun with her (again - I know you kind of mentioned it before) and you want to go out with her again.

DO NOT wait until Thursday to send this. Send it Sunday or Monday. When a guy contacts us on Thursday to see if we are available on the weekend, it pisses us off. We usually have made plans for the weekend by then. If it is a guy we like, we need to know within a few days of the last date that they are interested in seeing us again either the next weekend or the following one.

If she blows you off, you will have your answer as to whether or not this girl wants to continue dating you. In the meantime, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't go out with others you have met through Match.com and you should. But, if you are really interested in this girl, you need to make a concerted effort to let her know that you really like her.

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Sorry for being a jerk.. lol.

Only reason why I did the whole "well hey if you change your mind give me a call" thing was because I had wanted to take her dancing and then meet up with my friends later in the night. But she said no to dancing, and in the AIM conversation I suggested another idea and she basically said no, not this weekend because she's tired and whatnot. I didn't push dancing once she kind of side-stepped that invitation.

I don't want to come off as pushy/needy or desperate so I'm just going to back off a bit. There's no rush and I've already seen her two weekends in a row. Maybe she needs time for herself to just relax. If she likes me, she'll want to see me- if not this weekend, maybe another.

I'll just leave her alone (no contact) until maybe mid-next week and I'll just give her an IM and chat a bit... kinda stay on the radar so to speak. Next weekend is my birthday, so I'm going to be out with my boys, but maybe the following week I'll ask this girl to come out again, or maybe I'll suggest meeting her closer to where she lives so she won't have to drive as far.

I'm really enjoying the social dating experience and I'm not looking for anything serious. If something serious should find me, that'd be cool, but I'm not trying to make anything happen here. Just getting to know different women and how I mesh with different personalities. It was a fun experience with this first girl.

Okay Patrick. Sorry I didn't realize that there was more to the conversation than what you posted. I think the way you plan to handle it is a good idea. When you do ask her out again, definitely do it earlier in the week or a week ahead of time. Women feel like they are a last resort for a guy if he asks her out a day or two ahead of time, until/unless they are in a committed relationship. Then it doesn't matter.

So, have a good time with your friends tonight. Me, I am digging my way out of a major snow event from last night. :)

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

If it is a guy we like, we need to know within a few days of the last date that they are interested in seeing us again either the next weekend or the following one.

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Doesn't that come off as smothering? I had an experience with a girl like that not so long ago who would make plans with me for the following weekend while we were still out on a date in the present weekend... lol. I was kind of thinking, "I'm here with you now/I just saw you!!!! Give me some space!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

But, if you are really interested in this girl, you need to make a concerted effort to let her know that you really like her.

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How do I do this without coming off as a creep? I've learned lessons in the past and I know that girls cannot stand a needy/desperate guy. That's why now I'm more chill about it with girls and if they cancel plans/say no like this girl did, I simply back off, stay on the radar, and try again after the "dust settles". I don't want to be that guy who is like, "hmm wanna go out next weekend? How about next Wednesday? Weekend after that?" LOL.

I understand completely what you are saying. The biggest problem is that everyone is different and their needs are different. I am assuming that since you met through the internet dating site, she is looking for a relationship. It won't come off needy is that is what she wants. What did she tell you she was looking for? What does she say on her profile on the site? That should give you a better idea of how to handle yourself with her.

Considering she turned you down this time, I think you handled it fine. She really probably doesn't like dancing and she might have been a bit annoyed that you waited until Thursday to ask her out.

As for the other girl, I understand what you are saying there too. Not too many of us want that kind of commitment right off the bat. It does come across as too needy/desperate. You can gauge how you are doing by what you don't like other people doing to you and what you do like. That would be the best way to approach it. This way, whatever happens, you will eventually find someone in sync with your way of thinking.