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-   -   Blood splashes? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=577071)

  • May 18, 2011, 02:08 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Blood splashes?
    Facts;
    1. A man got shoot in the back on a sidewalk on his way home.
    2. The bullet goes straight through his body and comes out of his chest.
    3. The weapon was a S&W .357 Magnum 4 barrel revolver, 158 Full Metal
    Jacket bullet.
    4. Its winter time so the victim got a lots of clothes on him, the bullet
    goes through his; t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.

    Question:
    Should there be any bloodstains on the sidewalk or should all his clothes
    stop the bloodstains and just the bullet comes out of his chest?

    Its about 50 bloodstains in different sizes, from rice size - cent size, on
    a spot 17 ft x 8ft.

    Best regards
    Lennart Remstam
  • May 18, 2011, 02:15 PM
    Wondergirl

    How close was the shooter?
  • May 18, 2011, 02:22 PM
    Lennart Remstam

    The gun was 30 cm from his back or 1 ft, no bloodstains came out of his back, only from his chest.

    LR
  • May 18, 2011, 02:34 PM
    Wondergirl

    There would be bloodstains on the sidewalk.
  • May 18, 2011, 02:51 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    There would be bloodstains on the sidewalk.
    Thank you for answering, I can agree that it should be bloodstains on the
    sidewalk, but to me it sounds a lot, to many stains and to big. I mean if he was naked or only had a T-shirt on how many bloodstains would it be then and how far would they
    go? Is there any archives to check this?

    This is from the crime scene.
    Palmemordet polisen fakta page41 or
    The technical crime report from the national police or
    It's windy
    You can see the mark that the crime scene investigator has done,
    the bloodstains are on a spot 17x8 ft, and it's about 50 stains, size on the
    stains are from rice size to cent coin size.
    To me it sounds a lot, that so many blood drops passes through his
    winter clothes, t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.
    I can accept it if it was summertime and the victim
    only had a t-shirt on.

    What I think is that the victim hold
    his hand on the his chest where the bullet comes out, like this;
    Blood pool part 1
    It sounds more reasonably to me, then the blood drops only have
    to pass through thin gloves. See my reconstruction movie;
    YouTube - Rekonstruktion av Palmemordet del II

    Is there any archives where its possible to study this, as I see it it's got to
    be a limit where the only thing that comes out is the bullet and the
    lesser clothes the more bloodstains comes out.

    Lennart Remstam
    Thank.
  • May 18, 2011, 02:55 PM
    Wondergirl

    The shooter is VERY close, and the gun is VERY powerful.
  • May 18, 2011, 03:01 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam View Post
    What I think is that the victim hold
    his hand on the his chest where the bullet comes out
    He would do that only AFTER he had been shot and after blood would have been spattered onto the sidewalk in front of him. Holding his hand on his chest would staunch the flow of blood down his shirt and pants, but not prevent the initial spattering when his hand was NOT on his chest.
  • May 18, 2011, 03:02 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam View Post
    it's got to
    be a limit where the only thing that comes out is the bullet and the
    lesser clothes the more bloodstains comes out.
    Why a limit?
  • May 18, 2011, 04:33 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    He would do that only AFTER he had been shot and after blood would have been spattered onto the sidewalk in front of him. Holding his hand on his chest would staunch the flow of blood down his shirt and pants, but not prevent the initial spattering when his hand was NOT on his chest.
    The bullet went straight through his body, this is from the autopsy.
    The technical crime report from the national police
    He is kind of dead when the bullet comes out of his chest so he can't move his hands, he just fall down.
  • May 18, 2011, 04:38 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam View Post
    The bullet went straight through his body, this is from the autopsy.
    The technical crime report from the national police
    He is kind of dead when the bullet comes out of his chest so he can't move his hands, he just fall down.
    There is plenty of time for the blood to follow the bullet out of his body and spatter on the sidewalk before he even begins to crumple and fall over and die. His hands may jerk at his sides or involuntarily go to the wound, but it's too late to prevent blood from leaving his body.

    The main piece of evidence for the blood spatter in front of him is the closeness of the shooter and the weapon to his body.
  • May 18, 2011, 04:46 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Why a limit?
    See it this way;

    You got 2 plastic bottles full of blood, one is covered with
    Winter clothes the other one got no cover, it's naked.
    You shoot a bullet straight through them, one at a time.

    Question;
    Do you think it will be the same amount of blood around
    Them when you examen the area around them?
  • May 18, 2011, 05:10 PM
    DrBill100

    Lennhart,

    I have had no luck using the translation capacity of Google in order to review the autopsy finding (or other report) involved.

    I find your query very interesting and based on available/presented evidence think it is related to trajectory.

    I notice various cross-references in your citations and haven't checked them.

    I enjoy this type of investigation, it was my career for the past 15 years (ie, postmortem reconstruction), have no objection to educational ends, but would like to know more of your interest and need in order to determine if I may be of further assitance.
  • May 18, 2011, 05:38 PM
    Wondergirl

    Is this for school, for a forensics course?
  • May 18, 2011, 05:45 PM
    Wondergirl

    Who is your victim?
  • May 18, 2011, 06:05 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Thank you DrBill100.
    I been working on this case the last 12 years and it's about the Swedish Prime minister
    Olof Palmes death back in 1986. I been doing a reconstruction (animation and website)
    About the murder execution according to all the forensic science a could find.
    It's a reward on almost 10 million dollars on this case.

    I found out strange things and specially this bloodstains, to me it sounds strange that so
    Much blood is following the bullet out through his clothes, as I see it the clothes more or less
    Are working as a membrane and stops the blood but not the bullet.

    I don't have this experience so that's why I need an answer from somebody with experience
    Who knows what his talking about. The best thing would be to look at similar cases where
    People more or less been executed with winter clothes on, but where do I find them?

    Another question, I think one of the bullets broke this branch, what do you think?
    The branch is broken

    Best regards
    Lennart Remstam
  • May 18, 2011, 06:20 PM
    Lennart Remstam
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Who is your victim?

    The assassination of the Swedish Prime minister Olof Palme back in
    1986. If you solve the case you got million dollars more in you pocket.
    Olof Palme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is my investigation, there is some physic, math(forensic science) that
    Is wrong from the police as I see it, correct me if I'm wrong.

    For example this branch, is it a bullet who made this, is it possible to reconstruct
    This happening?
    The branch is broken

    Thank you
  • May 18, 2011, 08:33 PM
    DrBill100

    Like to pick this up tomorrow. See it is retrospective and without urgency. Interesting however.

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