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SWIM has failed one ETG in the past, the level was 222ng and the cutoff was 100ng. SWIM didn't try to dilute urine, creatinine was around 90. The mind blowing thing is, SWIM drink 11 tall boy beers or more only 37... yes 37 hours before the test. Now SWIM is at a different center where his cutoffs are 500ng!! Does this basically mean he is safe to drink from now on as long as it's not the night before?
The EtG level as compared to drinks consumed is surprising only if it is compared to advertising claims of the commercial testing industry. The fact is people produce and eliminate EtG at widely variant rates and the same individual may produce different amounts from time to time. This variation is often 10 fold. Despite your luck in this instance it probably wouldn't be advisable to test it based on a metabolite we know so little about and questionable testing procedures. In addition, the amount of alcohol consumed is only weakly associated with EtG presence.
How many EtG tests have you taken where you had drunk 3 or more drinks within 48 hrs previous?
After failing that test, SWIM always leaves 2 days before an ETG, EVEN with the prior low level 100ng cutoff ones. If SWIM drinks massive amounts of beer on, say, a Friday night, he'll be clean as a whistle on Monday morning. Over the past year, he's done it about 9 times and all relapses of fun have been undetected.
The reason I thrown this out on these forums is mainly to sooth some fears for others dealing with this bull****. And SWIM was wondering about the consistency of ETG levels.
***SWIM doesn't recommend in anyway using this as an excuse to drink. But if someone already has, there's hope. SWIM is also super skinny, young, drinks a pot of coffee a day, and has been a heavy drinker for the past 8 years. I imagine all those play a part in it.***
Your information is interesting and certainly emphasizes the discrepancy between the claims of the testing field and actual experience. There is no way of determining the frequency of false negatives or failure to detect as you have noted. If it follows the pattern of other testing, such as immunoassays, these false negatives out number false positives by 3 to 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by duiguy22
So as not to embolden those that might interpret your experience as a license to drink without fear of detection, I can point to numerous cases where there was no alcohol consumed and they registered above, sometimes 3x more, than your 222.
Both your experience and theirs points to the inconsistency and unreliability of EtG testing. These problems have been well known and reported in professional journals for several years now. In fact, since 2005 authoritative advisories have been issued (see Skipper and SAMHSA), each new discovery has eroded the supposed benefits of the tests and yet use of the test has increased exponentially. As a sensitive and specific bio-marker for alcohol consumption EtG is worse than useless: Not detecting those who do drink and wrongfully accusing those who don't, in large and harmful numbers under each category. There are serious questions about whether it is even a specific bio-marker for exogenous alcohol as a recent study found EtG in the system of 39 total abstainers (100% of group) with no exposure to environmental ethanol and in the urine of 13 children under the age of 10 yrs (100% of group)(Rosano & Lin, 2008)
Despite my opinion of the test, would still recommend caution on your part as the pendulum swings in both directions. Thanks for your information and keep us posted.
Update.
500ng immo test for ETG. SWIM drank 6 16oz tall boy beers on Tuesday and tested Thursday. SWIM found out he passed. Works out to about 40 hours.
If you have the time I would like to know the period across which you drank the beer, the brand, and time you finished the last one.Quote:
Originally Posted by duiguy22
I just read a Special Advisory that was issued to courts and other forensic sources recommending that all such agencies raise the cutoff to 500. As opposed to the older 100. Doesn't make much difference in your case but may influence others.
Also, were you advised to avoid products such as mouthwash, cleaners and other sources of alcohol by either of the agencies that have tested you?
Thanks for the follow-up.
I don't chug my beer down to get sloshed, so I think 30 to 45 minutes per beer about. My last drink ended at 10p(tues), started at 6pm. 6 cans Busch 16oz, at 4.6 abv. Sample was given at appx 3pm(thurs).
I was told to avoid products containing alcohol, although I have had some councelors tell me I can use mouthwash if I'm not drinking the stuff, also hand sanatizer is OK too. I know I'm taking ETG tests, not an assumption, as I get copies for my "personal record," but it's really just a way to see if I passed without asking directly.
Hopefully they take this terrible test off the market soon and realize that people only quit when they WANT to.
Thanks for the imput :)
"...people only quit when they WANT to". Wow! How true, but the threat of consequences is what often gets the ball rolling... Thanks for the information as I am tracking + EtG tests too.
DrBill,
I am going on a vacation in a this weekend to celebrate my 5 year anniversary. I usually don't drink, but this is a celebration. I know I will receive an EtG test on the Tuesday I return home. If I allow 100 hours between the test and my last drink, will I pass? Have you heard of anyone, who isn't an alcoholic, failing an EtG after the 80 hours? I keep seeing up to 5 days which is 120 hours so I'm worried... (female,5'3,120lbs)
The detection window for EtG is determined by where the study begins. Some consider first drink, some rely on BAC at admission, and other when BAC reaches 0. So unless you are accustomed to interpreting research methods these irregularities result in different time frames. The tests often used different cut-offs. The studies are often not comparable. So that is why you read about different detection periods.
Part of the equation is how much you drink. 1 standard drink while metabolized in about 1.5 hrs will be detectable in EtG for about 21 hours although the range between individuals is between 3-31 hours. That variance, 10x, tells you just how hard it is to predict individual clearance based on the deviation. It also renders the average largely irrelevant.
However, a review of the paltry amount of research that has been performed--no large scale studies--indicates that clearance for 9 standard drinks averages at about 77 hours.
The 120 hour claims are extreme, always preceded by "up to" and generally issue from the commercial testing industry. Mostly a marketing ploy attached to a distant truth.
3-4 drinks are usually undetectable at 48 hours, but that study only involved 19 people.
It is also dependent on the test cut-off values. 100 ng cutoff is the most sensitive but a recent advisory now recommends 500 ng. Unfortunately, advisories have existed in relation to this test for 5-6 years and testing facilities simply ignore them. Cut-offs may range from 100, 250, 500, 750, 1000 and some as high as 2000 ng. Completely unregulated with no agreement within the field. The lower the number the more sensitive the test.
What I can say with safety is that the longer the time between your last drink and the test, the safer you are.
DrBill100, I drank 6 martini's (vodka) Thursday from 1 until 7:30PM. I have a test Monday at 5:00PM so approximately 94 hours. It's a 500NG cut off. Will I be OK?
Based on your rate of consumption, quantity and time interval you should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbird11
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