If the bible says there is none righteous, no not one, then how can any of us be worthy to partake of the Lord's supper? It is only because the God imparts righteousness on to us when we accept the Lord as our Lord and savior. So when Paul was instructing the believers in Cornith concerning the Lord's supper he said there were many sick and weak and even dead because they didn't discern the body of Christ. They partook in an unworthy manner. Do you think Paul was actually speaking of their sinful lifestyle and they needed to examine themselves and confess sin, OR they came together and ate and drank like it was any old meal. Could it be they didn't discern the Lord's body by understanding Jesus bore all of our sickness and disease on the cross and that by his stripes we are healed? And therefore this was a very special meal and to be treated as such. What do you think?

The reason I ask is because I have heard Pastors say to get really quiet and pray before you take it. Exam your life and see if there is any wicked way... I'm thinking that is NOT what Paul meant. What say you?

Paul's warnings about eating and drinking unworthily are often taken out of context. The context is that, in early Christian communities, the Eucharist was part of a full meal. The wealthier ate and drank to excess while making less important the presence and contributions of the poorer members of the congregation. Paul was angry that some Christians were using the Sacrament -- the very embodiment of Christian community, of believers being as one body in Christ -- not only as an exercise in gluttony, but also as a means of division/disrespect.

When Paul said to discern the body, he was talking about recognizing the community and the needs of one's fellow Christians, not about recognizing the Body of Christ, i.e. the Church, which consists of individual believers. 1 Cor.12:12, "For as the body is one, and hath many members, all the member of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ who is the head."

This all plays into the Second Greatest Commandment and Matthew 25:40: Love one another and "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me."

Yes, agree with Wondergirl, thus the reason that communion has been normally taken out of the social gathering or meal.
As with the Lord his "Last Supper" was part of a real meal they shared together.

But as with all people, they lost the special nature of it, and lost the importance. They were eating too much, drinking too much and the such. And the meal and the social time was becoming the important event not the remembering Christ in it.

OK. Why were they sick, weak and some dead? Because they didn't make it a "special" meal. Or because they didn't understand what Christ did on the cross?

WG... I don't think I agree with you. When Paul is speaking of the body he is clearly speaking of the Lord Jesus and what he physically endured. Just as Christ was speaking of HIS own body and how it would be broken for us.

They were suppose to be Christian just to be at the meal. So we have to assume that they had heard about Christ and should have understood. But then how many church members in our churches today understand. But they were not given Christ the honor of the meal, It would be to me a comparison of going into a church alter area today and not being respectful. Example I remember seeing a janitor one day smoking when he was cleaning up the alter area, he had a cup sat on the alter for his ashes. I was waiting for the lightening to strike.

But then we are to examine ourself, and if we fnd a problem in our life, we are to go take care of it before we come back to the alter

Because some were unworthy in their participation in the Lord's Supper, they not only fell victim to their own intemperance but also may have "provoked God to plague them with divers diseases and sundry kinds of death" (Adam Clarke).

Therefore, Paul may have been speaking of both spiritual and physical sickness, weakness, and death due to their lack of discerning of the body of believers, the Christian community.

Fr_chuck,

Interesting. Now see, I personally don't see the alter of a church as any more important than the back of the church. To me, that is just man made stuff. I'm not trying to be disrespectful but... I don't get it?

And if we examine ourselves, we will ALWAYS find a problem. We will NEVER be worthy without the gift of righteousness. Course I'm speaking of me... I know me best.. I am NOT worthy in and of myself EVEN in when I examine myself.. I always seem to forget something.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Because some were unworthy in their participation in the Lord's Supper, they not only fell victim to their own intemperance but also may have "provoked God to plague them with divers diseases and sundry kinds of death" (Adam Clarke).

Therefore, Paul may have been speaking of both spiritual and physical sickness, weakness, and death due to their lack of discerning.

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We are under grace! How are we going to provoke the Lord to give us a plague? Didn't Jesus die for that? What of the verse that states he was bruised for us and by his stripes we are healed. Is God going to give us a disease when he already judged Christ. Do you REALLLY believe that?

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Originally Posted by classyT

We are under grace! How are we going to provoke the Lord to give us a plague? Didn't Jesus die for that? What of the verse that states he was bruised for us and by his stripes we are healed. Is God going to give us a disease when he already judged Christ. do you REALLLY believe that?

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But were those who were afflicted ("sick, weak, and dead") under grace? Jesus died for them too and they may have made all the right motions in order to become members, but was the Lord Jesus in their hearts? The manner in which they conducted themselves at the Lord's Table and in the body of community of believers says no.

WG,

I'm slow. Are you saying that these people were not saved? Then why did Paul say they were asleep. If they were dead in their sins... he would have said some of them were dead. He simply said asleep. To me that would indicate they were in fact believers under grace. He was writing to believers. But that is interesting, I have never heard their salvation was in question before.

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Originally Posted by classyT

WG,

I'm slow. Are you saying that these people were not saved? Then why did Paul say they were asleep. If they were dead in their sins...he would have said some of them were dead. He simply said asleep. to me that would indicate they were in fact believers under grace. He was writing to believers. But that is interesting, I have never heard their salvation was in question before.

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I've never heard their salvation questioned, either, but I do know that there have been times when God used sickness or even death to discipline people who are brazen enough in their misbehavior. It has nothing to do with being under grace, because the Lord does chasten those he loves.

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Originally Posted by classyT

WG,

I'm slow. Are you saying that these people were not saved? Then why did Paul say they were asleep. If they were dead in their sins...he would have said some of them were dead. He simply said asleep. to me that would indicate they were in fact believers under grace. He was writing to believers. But that is interesting, I have never heard their salvation was in question before.

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They ate and drank judgment to themselves, evident by the fact that their behavior did not match their words. They received the Lord's Supper unworthily. They talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.

Commentaries mostly say the same as Matthew Henry's: "The apostle was addressing Christians, and warning them to beware of the temporal judgements with which God chastised his offending servants. And in the midst of judgement, God remembers mercy: he many times punishes those whom he loves."

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

I've never heard their salvation questioned, either, but I do know that there have been times when God used sickness or even death to discipline people who are brazen enough in their misbehavior. It has nothing to do with being under grace, because the Lord does chasten those he loves.

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Brazen? Ha ha sorry... I enjoyed that word.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... like A&S back in Acts. Not buying it. I discipline my bratty boys all the time... but they are still breathin. I'd have been dead long ago if that is how the Lord deals with us Dave. He corrects us.. he doesn't KILL us. You got to trust me on this... I know I seem so sweet ( cough, cough )and it is hard to believe but I have done far worse than A&S and these guys in Cornith.

Why is it soooo hard to believe they got in trouble because they didn't believe, understand or remember the Lord in his death and what he endured for us on the cross. What does... "by his stripes we are healed" mean?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

They ate and drank judgment to themselves, evident by the fact that their behavior did not match their words. They received the Lord's Supper unworthily. They talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.

Commentaries mostly say the same as Matthew Henry's: "The apostle was addressing Christians, and warning them to beware of the temporal judgements with which God chastised his offending servants. And in the midst of judgement, God remembers mercy: he many times punishes those whom he loves."

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But is that what YOU believe? You think they were not even real?

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Originally Posted by classyT

Brazen? ha ha sorry...i enjoyed that word.

yeah, yeah, yeah....like A&S back in Acts. Not buying it. I discipline my bratty boys all the time...but they are still breathin. I'd have been dead long ago if that is how the Lord deals with us Dave. He corrects us..he doesn't KILL us. You got to trust me on this...I know I seem so sweet ( cough, cough )and it is hard to believe but I have done far worse than A&S and these guys in Cornith.

why is it soooo hard to believe they got in trouble because they didn't believe, understand or remember the Lord in his death and what he endured for us on the cross. What does..."by his stripes we are healed" mean?

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He sets the criteria for how far my chastisement goes, not I. If God has concluded that some are so far gone the best way to discipline them is in person, that's his prerogative. I might think I was worthy of that level of discipline at some point (several, actually), but clearly He disagreed. That's fine with me. If someday I get so far out there He decides it's time to take me home to deal with me, I'll humbly stand before Him and say "Oops."

"By his stripes we are healed" is another topic that I don't think really has a bearing on this question.

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Originally Posted by classyT

but is that what YOU believe? you think they were not even real?

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

I've never heard their salvation questioned, either, but I do know that there have been times when God used sickness or even death to discipline people who are brazen enough in their misbehavior. It has nothing to do with being under grace, because the Lord does chasten those he loves.

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I'm with you. Those Christians apparently ate and drank themselves into a sickbed--or worse, a grave.

Maybe He just hasn't gotten around to chastening classyT yet. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm with you. Those Christians apparently ate and drank themselves into a sickbed--or worse, a grave.

Maybe He just hasn't gotten around to chastening classyT yet. ;)

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A hearty har har. I have been disciplined. It wasn't a fun time but I'm still alive and kicking. I did far worse than eat or drink too much when I should have been thinking on the Lord.

I'm just saying.. shouldn't we consider that there is something MORE to this than the Lord struck them dead or sick. Couldn't it be they didn't get it. They came together and really didn't get what the Lord Jesus did for them on the cross?

Dave,

I disagree with you. IF I am correct and not on another radical grace tangent, then what Jesus bore on the cross was more than just sin.It was all of our diseases and sickness. They came together and failed to believe it. They ate the meal as if it were any other meal. AND are we not the same today? Ok maybe we don't come together to actually eat a MEAL.
But we come together and we don't discern what all he bore on the cross. That verse in Isaiah 53 IS very much relevant here. I think.

Have I completely gone off the deep end? I just don't believe the Lord takes us when we go too far into sin. And while I don't consider myself a wild woman compared to most people in this world today, I have done FAR worse. But it isn't about our performance.. it is about our belief. And these christian believers in cornith were not believing all they needed to concerning the Lord's work on the cross. I don't even think it was delibrate... it just wasn't important to them. Isn't that the only thing the Lord really can't work with... UNbelief?

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Originally Posted by classyT

something MORE to this than the Lord struck them dead or sick. Couldn't it be they didn't get it. They came together and really didn't get what the Lord Jesus did for them on the cross?

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You're not paying attention. The Lord didn't do much of anything -- they mostly did it to themselves with their ghastly, undisciplined eating and drinking and unlovingness.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You're not paying attention. The Lord didn't do much of anything -- they mostly did it to themselves with their ghastly, undisciplined eating and drinking and unlovingness.

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Eating and drinking too much only gives most people a bigger bottom. So I am not buying it. It WAS an important thing and they were making light of it but I don't think it was about how much they ate or drank. I think it was more about what they BELIEVED about what they were eating or drinking.