A question I have long pondered and only end up coming to the next question as to what the purpose of life is? Is this simply a question of nature vs nurture, that it is simply the randomness of our genes combined with our experiences and environment which ultimately determines who we are? And in that case does personality and attitude affect that - or are they again results of genes and environment?

I and indeed you could have just as well been born each other, or anyone else, at any time, anywhere - or I/we could have just as well been not born at all. If God specifically chose each of us with our given talents, natures, personality etc. then surely there would be a individual "calling" or purpose for us as well? If not then does life have purpose?

Most "find their own purpose" and deem this as "making the most of life" - striving for happiness(be this in wealth, status, love, helping others or anything else). Life is so fickle. You or your family could so easily take a trip to the shops and die in a car crash. You have no control that. So is there purpose? If God didn't make us then are we simply living out pointless, short lives to the best we can and that's it? Full stop? If God did make us then are we living for eternity? Are we living to know/love/serve Him/others best? Is there something that only we can achieve which is why we were born as us - again my original question...

I know a lot of people simply don't think about life to this depth - which is something I envy at times as I don't think there are satifactory answers so at the end of the day there is really no point in thinking about it. But when you have there is no way back. You have two choices: 1. denial - throw yourself into life ignoring the hopeless feeling of pointlessness of it all. 2. Keep struggling with the questions which plague you hoping to one day find answers or some peace of mind. Before someone says "It doesn't matter. You are you because you are. Just live life as best as you can" let me save you the trouble. I've thought through that approach and it really won't sit with me - I think too much is all I can do to explain it.

Anyway for those of you who think about things or whose interest I have sparked in some way I would welcome your thoughts on some/any of the questions I have posed in this post.

Thanks,

Pensive

I think you left out a third option. Or at least I didn't get an impression of it in what you had written. The third option is trust. If you believe in god the you "trust" that things are working out in some way shape or form as you live your life. The purpose of life becomes one of "trust".

If god put us here then we really have no way of knowing what the outcome is going to be. Life without struggle of somekind isn't really life at all. Lets look at your example of the car crash. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Who knows. All we know is that those that have survived it will keep living until our own time is reached. For some it may be a lesson in the "life is too short" category. For others it may be a lasting tragidy that is relived on a daily basis (by becoming an unreasonable fear that hinders life) and then there are those that won't give it a passing thought after a short while.

So reality tells us that life is what we make it out to be. And the road traveled can be bumpy at times. There is no smooth sailing through lifes journey.

So when you ponder your personal existence you are going to have to "trust" that your making the right decisions and I would hope also resolve to stop every once in awhile to smell the roses. And along your journey you will observe the richness that the world has to offer and you will see your path as the journey you have taken always has a past and in the opposite direction is the future.

Sure, I think about the meaning of life.
I do find one of your questions an either-or type that I don't believe in:
'If God didn't make us then are we simply living out pointless, short lives to the best we can and that's it?'
Many people are able to live lives of meaning without believing that there is more after death.
Many people do feel life is pointless and yet believe in God, with or without a hereafter.
I don't search any more for a meaning of life in the abstract, a blanket meaning for all of us. Life has meaning or not to each individual.
When I was little I asked my grandfather, and he said 'Something to do, someone to love, something to look forward to.' I've decided after many years that without at least 1 out of 3, I'm doomed. Many people cling to the third one, hope, when the others fail. Done it myself.
I prefer to think about universal truth.
Someone said once that the only 2 truths are the most subjective and the most elusive, yet are all around us: love and beauty. Science and math change, even death may be conquered this century.

Your grandfather was a wise man :) I've been thinking a lot about what the fundamental needs are in my life -beside those which basically sustain you. I pretty much came to the same conclusion as your grandfather. I decided originally that as long as love was in my life, regardless of what else was taken away, I would have something to live for.However I came to the conclusion that I also needed a task- I could not simply do nothing.The 3rd one I hadn't narrowed down but I agree - when all else fails it is hope which pulls us through. Personally, in the past I have often found hope in the knowledge that God is ever faithful but there are many other things which provide hope.
Love and beauty are key truths but while I feel incredibly blessed myself I can't help but agonise over the suffering which plagues so many others. Many would look at me and wonder why I question the world as really I have it pretty sweet, but I put myself in others shoes...
Thanks for your thoughts

Trust... as I was writing this question that was in the back of my mind. Something, sadly, I'm not all that good at:/ I guess my main problem is that I know that from birth we only have about 80 years of life then that's it. I don't want to get to the end of my life and feel as though I have wasted it. I want to do the right thing and know that the decisions I am making are not ones that I will regret.We only have one life - I do not say this on a "live it up" principle simply wanting to do the most in the time I have.There is a lot that's messed up in this world of ours. I care deeply about people... but, at times, feel so powerless to do anything significant to help them. It's hard to trust when you are a single thread in a tapastry, despite its grand design. I think I'm subconciously holding out for some sort of insite into a grand plan.Without one... as you say 'life is what we make it out to be" but what's the point?Sorry.. its hard to be clear:(

As a person you have coices to make that shape your life. When you realize you can't control others and when others are by intention or design being placed in harms way and you do feel powerless then there is only one thing left to do. Live the example. When you live your life it has influence on others from what they take of it. Some may pitty you and others may be jealous. You don't really know. And lifes journey is the same way. It might be your words of encouragement that caused someone to do something extrodinary. In the end your contribution counts. It might just be a smile to a stranger on a day that gloom is hanging over them and it makes a difference. Someone near may hear a conversation your having and it effects them to move forward in their life in more positive ways. We just don't know the final outcome.

By opening the debate on a public forum others may read it and be inspired as well as others reject it as garbage. Those choices are not ours to make. So in the end your still contributing to life and its journey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pensive

A question I have long pondered and only end up coming to the next question as to what the purpose of life is? Is this simply a question of nature vs nurture, that it is simply the randomness of our genes combined with our experiences and environment which ultimately determines who we are? And in that case does personality and attitude affect that - or are they again results of genes and environment?

I and indeed you could have just as well been born each other, or anyone else, at any time, anywhere - or I/we could have just as well been not born at all. If God specifically chose each of us with our given talents, natures, personality etc. then surely there would be a individual "calling" or purpose for us as well? If not then does life have purpose?

Most "find their own purpose" and deem this as "making the most of life" - striving for happiness(be this in wealth, status, love, helping others or anything else). Life is so fickle. You or your family could so easily take a trip to the shops and die in a car crash. You have no control that. So is there purpose? If God didn't make us then are we simply living out pointless, short lives to the best we can and thats it? Full stop? If God did make us then are we living for eternity? Are we living to know/love/serve Him/others best? Is there something that only we can achieve which is why we were born as us - again my original question...

I know a lot of people simply don't think about life to this depth - which is something I envy at times as I don't think there are satifactory answers so at the end of the day there is really no point in thinking about it. But when you have there is no way back. You have two choices: 1. denial - throw yourself into life ignoring the hopeless feeling of pointlessness of it all. 2. Keep struggling with the questions which plague you hoping to one day find answers or some peace of mind. Before someone says "It doesn't matter. You are you because you are. Just live life as best as you can" let me save you the trouble. I've thought through that approach and it really won't sit with me - I think too much is all I can do to explain it.

Anyway for those of you who think about things or whose interest I have sparked in some way I would welcome your thoughts on some/any of the questions I have posed in this post.

Thanks,

Pensive

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Hi Pensive,

As this is a philosophical section I will recommend a philosophical answer in the form of Soren Kierkegaard the existentialist philosopher. Kierkegaard addresses many of the questions you have raised in your post. For example, 'What is the point of human existence?' and 'Is it possible to make any sense out of this existence?'.

In his literary novels Kierkegaard portrays human existence as absurd, always difficult and meaningless. His philosophical writings are more positive, while his religious writings attempts to make us aware of these issues.

From memory Kierkegaard is not that difficult to read and there appears to be a renewed interest in his works lately.

You might find him interesting. Just a suggestion.

Regards

Tut

When someone mentions all the suffering in the world and their powerlessness, I say, but how do you know that you have done nothing good for the world? You may have picked up a scarf a nurse dropped on a wintry day and saved her from pneumonia and she saved her patient that night. Even if she wasn't a life saver, and even if it wasn't cold out, she might have gone home and felt better, and that had an effect on her life and everyone she knew (and everyone they knew, and so on). Just being a good person who does no harm is not worse than being a famous philanthropist or a builder of medical clinics in poor countries. What about taking care of your elderly grandmother, parent, little brother, who isn't saving the world either? You are still being worthwhile, one little good act at a time. Some will argue that those who have to imprint their names on their good deeds are merely strutting their stuff for their own satisfaction. You decide.

Thanks Tut. I will take a look.

if we were all the same, we would be like robots.

what would be different? What achievement could you have, that all others wouldn't?

what would be the point of you being here, if anyone could and would replace you when your parts wore out?

if you looked the same, and acted the same, and were the same as all others!

in this you find why, because differences inply the opposite of a need for sameness.

a society uses sameness or normalcy as a standard, but only those who are not standard create the difference.
only inventors and teachers, and others far from the central tendency produce the driving force that progess is.
and drag others with them on their coattails. You presume genes and environment are not caused by other things.
did the previous environment cause the current, was former pollution over time partly responsible? Is time itself
a factor in how we are? Since we exist in time, at least as much as we can tell. If your pivotal value is God then
you presume that asking questions on this web site makes a difference? Would not it be easier to ask directly a God
whom you believe knows you. There is not depth that is not born of a search for deeper meaning, for those who are
happy with the farmbill and useless pursuits are not thinking about today. You don't believe that there are answers.
I do. I believe there are answers, but many do not want to hear them. Perhaps it does matter, but more important than
any answer you may find, is what are you doing about your opinion. If you don't believe in answers why seek them?
truly down someplace you must want answers or you would not ask. Look at the web site name. Ask me help desk.
do you want to ask, do you want help? Your opinion is as valid as you are, so be unique, be yourself. If you choose to not be like me, and know you have answers, then continue as you are. I quote the 5th chapter of the bogavida
a man who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep wake him.
a man who knows not and knows that he knows not is a child teach him.
a man who knows not and knows that that he knows not is a fool shun him.
a man who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man follow him.

Typographical error, sorry, actually the next to last line is:
A man who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool shun him.

Please take a look at AMHD rules when you quote someone so that the quote is posted properly and does appear to be plagiarism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pensive

Your grandfather was a wise man :) I've been thinking a lot about what the fundamental needs are in my life -beside those which basically sustain you. I pretty much came to the same conclusion as your grandfather. I decided originally that as long as love was in my life, regardless of what else was taken away, I would have something to live for.However I came to the conclusion that I also needed a task- i could not simply do nothing.The 3rd one I hadn't narrowed down but I agree - when all else fails it is hope which pulls us through. Personally, in the past I have often found hope in the knowledge that God is ever faithful but there are many other things which provide hope.
Love and beauty are key truths but while I feel incredibly blessed myself I can't help but agonise over the suffering which plagues so many others. Many would look at me and wonder why I question the world as really i have it pretty sweet, but I put myself in others shoes...
Thanks for your thoughts

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I concur, 100%. As long as we remember the important things in our life: love, beauty, kindness and hope, we will live a happy life. We should accept the existence of a purpose, but we shouldn't focus on it. We should instead we got to on living our life to the fullest, and when God is ready to enlighten us, He will. We should also acknowledge that there is no "blanket" purpose for humanity as a whole. Everyone has their own purpose to fulfill, their own meaning of life. God put us here to live in the beauty of His creation. He wanted to create something that is beautiful, acting as a wonderful play that is always unfolding, developing. A story that is the king of stories. We are a great experiment, made to live, and learn, and love. When God put us here, He did it as a testament to all things fantastic. You might say that God made us to observe this wonderful story and enjoy it along with Him, acting as the characters and the readers at the same time. Ergo, I declare that asking "What is our purpose?" is like asking "What is the purpose of the cast of a play?" Our purpose is to be a part of something wonderful. We are the players in the beautiful play called "Life." To serve our purpose as the characters of this great story, we need to live our life. Then, when we're on our deathbed, or looking down from heaven, we can say, "The universe has a wonderful story, and I was a part of it." That is our purpose.

You are the part trying to understand the whole, a grain of sand that thinks he is the desert. Instead of concieving the entirety of the universe and imagining your place and purpose in it, imagine yourself, age 100, on your death bed. What is it that you would ought to have occurred in your life? When you answer that, you will have your purpose.