I was raised by my father who has no religious preference and my mother who was raised Catholic but doesn't practice her religion anymore. I grew up attending a Christian church but quickly realized it wasn't for me.

On my dog tags I listed no religious preference. I disregard the bible as non-credible and I despise those who preach to non-believers. I can't justify spending my time on earth HOPING something happens when I die.

My discussion is this. Tell me your thoughts of people like me, tell me your beliefs and lets debate this.

Anyone have any thoughts..

I have lots of thoughts. You kind of already scared me with your anger and vehemence. Not sure I want to post anything.

It sounds like your mind is made up, so what's to debate?

Wow.. that's a big door to walk through. But I will say this. If you attended a christian school then you should have at some point had some bible study. You would know that part of being a christian involves delivering the message forward. Now when it comes to being preachy (to me means over the top) then yes that is something that is bad about some believers.

One of the many parablles that is spoken of in the bible that deals with that is the one where it is said. Some seed will fall upon fertile soil and some will fall upon stone.

In a nutshell the person doing the telling is suppose to recognize what's going on. To offer is OK, but a true christian always accepts his fellow man (and woman) and doesn't get preachy. That's what church is for.

Post away. My vehemence of my beliefs are just that, my beliefs. If someone isn't forceful with their own beliefs can they really believe in them?

I am open to debate of any sort, my mind may be made up but that shouldn't detour you from debating your beliefs.

I want someone to explain to me how anything preached out of the bible can be credible?

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Wow .. thats a big door to walk through. But I will say this. If you attended a christian school then you should have at some point had some bible study. You would know that part of being a christian involves delivering the message forward. Now when it comes to being preachy (to me means over the top) then yes that is something that is bad about some believers.

One of the many parablles that is spoken of in the bible that deals with that is the one where it is said. Some seed will fall upon fertile soil and some will fall upon stone.

In a nutshell the person doing the telling is suppose to recognize whats going on. To offer is ok, but a true christian always accepts his fellow man (and woman) and doesnt get preachy. Thats what church is for.

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I never attended a Christian School. ;) It says Church in my body above...

Its sad, no hope, no future to look forward to. Just now and never knowing when even that little bit is over.

No feeling you have a purpose on earth. No reason beyond self pleasure to wake up to.

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

I never attended a Christian School. ;) It says Church in my body above...

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My bad. But you get what Im saying about how the bible is written and one of the paramounts in it is the bringing forth of the message. So the rest of my post is still relavent.

I don't believe in "preaching" and trying to force what I believe on anyone, especially someone who is already loaded for bear. My behavior shows what kind of a person I am.

I love your statement, "Tell me your thoughts of people like me."

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Its sad, no hope, no future to look forward to.

This is your belief is it not? You automatically judge me for not sharing the same ideas. What's sad? Whats hopeless? What future don't I have? (after-life? there is no guarantee there is such a thing)

Just now and never knowing when even that little bit is over.

What else besides the now/future on earth is relevant?

No feeling you have a purpose on earth. No reason beyond self pleasure to wake up to.
I feel I have a purpose on earth. Do you? Or is your only purpose on earth is to make it to the after-life?

Again, I have MANY reasons beyond self-pleasure to wake up every morning. What are your reasons for waking up that are so much different then mine.

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I am not trying to fight, this is simply a debate of belief.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

My behavior shows what kind of a person I am."

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As does mine!

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

As does mine!

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I don't doubt that for a minute.

Now, tell me what you meant by "people like me."

You might find this interesting reading. It seems to be on an even slant. Its from a program called NOVA. It aires on PBS and they produce many fine programs with an eye on science.

NOVA | The Bible's Buried Secrets | Archeology of the Hebrew Bible | PBS

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I don't doubt that for a minute.

Now, tell me what you meant by "people like me."

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people like me = non believers

From Muslim to American Indian religious practice, to someone in the jungle who still believes in a sun god, or a Christian,

They share one factor ( in that they have a faith and a hope that is part of what can drive their life.

Without that why would a person want to get up in the morning, except for the need to provide for their "needs" in life.

As for the look for things to come, if one believes in ghosts where your spirit stays here on earth or where your soul recycles back over and over, they also share some things, the hope for better ( or fear of worst) things to come.
In absence of laws and society values, those are the driving factors that often make up our moral fiber, if there is no crime or earthly punishment, why not indulge in various desires.

But why do you have a purpose, or what it is, why care for your fellow man if it is not going to be of any benefit.

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

people like me = non believers

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Nonbeliever is a broad brush when your asking about christians. The umbrella is huge when it comes to nonbelievers (label).

So when you say people like me then it may need further definition for some people. To a christian a jew is a non believer. And that position is far and away from where your standing.

So does that make you an agnostic ? Or atheist ?


agnostic - definition of agnostic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

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Originally Posted by ;

But why do you have a purpose, or what it is,

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"Consider a hammer. It's designed to hit nails. That's what it was created to do. Now imagine that the hammer never gets used. It just sits in the toolbox. The hammer doesn't care.

But now imagine that same hammer with a soul, a self-consciousness. Days and days go by with him remaining in the toolbox. He feels funny inside, but he's not sure exactly why. Something is missing, but he doesn't know what it is.

Then one day someone pulls him out of the toolbox and uses him to break some branches for the fireplace. The hammer is exhilarated. Being held, being wielded, hitting the branches -- the hammer loves it. At the end of the day, though, he is still unfulfilled. Hitting the branches was fun, but it wasn't enough. Something is still missing."

You are viewing me as hammer. Assuming I need a purpose in life to feel fulfilled. What purpose do you have? If you don't hit the nail on the head there's a guy behind you ready to go.

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why care for your fellow man if it is not going to be of any benefit.

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My actions aren't dependent on benefits received from them. I don't need to benefit from something in order to do it. In my opinion I think its selfish to do things only because you benefit from it.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

So does that make you an agnostic ? Or athiest ?

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I would be agnostic... I am doubtful or not convinced.

What I don't get is why is that you want a debate on the whole thing. Just as how you believe what you believe and want to be let alone, allow for Christians to do the same. Your desire to debate is just as overbearing as their desire to preach. Religion is based on faith, there is no right or wrong or black and white, it is what text or god speaks to you as a person. I personally don't get the bible... I don't read the bible except for Proverbs probably and I don't trust it, I think that it is a tool of manipulation BUT I don't attack people for believing in it. Maybe, they are able to feel something that YOU or should I say WE just cant. So debating the credibility of the bible would be irrelevant... it's a spiritual thing.

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Originally Posted by missemme

What I don't get is why is that you want a debate on the whole thing. Just as how you believe what you believe and want to be let alone, allow for Christians to do the same. Your desire to debate is just as overbearing as their desire to preach. Religion is based on faith, there is no right or wrong or black and white, it is what text or god speaks to you as a person. I personally don't get the bible...I don't read the bible except for Proverbs probably and I don't trust it, I think that it is a tool of manipulation BUT I don't attack people for believing in it. Maybe, they are able to feel something that YOU or should I say WE just cant. So debating the credibility of the bible would be irrelevant...it's a spiritual thing.

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I want to debate this because I can. This is not the same thing as preaching, I am not pushing my beliefs on anybody or trying to convince others to join in my beliefs.

I am not attacking people either, where in my post am I attacking anybody? Myself and Fr_chuck have an understanding as we have both been here along time. I am not attacking his views no more no less then he is mone. (which I welcomed with this post)

No debating the bible is not irrelevant... it is not a spiritual thing. The bible states people, places, things, etc... all which can be proven/denied.

Where are you going with this?

What am I doing on the religious forum? Oh right, I saw your thread, saw it was you that started it, and curiosity killed the cat. Meow. ;)

IT, I used to post on the religious threads a lot. The only thing it got me was a gigantic headache and a few enemies. You see, like you, I'm not a believer in the bible, I don't believe in church, I don't appreciate people preaching to me, and I don't think anyone needs religion in order to live a good life and be a good person.

As of this moment I'm a Deist. That's what makes the most sense to me right now. I believe that there was some higher power, God, if that's what you want to call it, that helped create the earth. God and science. After the earth was created, God walked away.

I think the bible is a very interesting book of fiction. There are some valuable lessons in it, but fact? No.

I also believe that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, but they don't have the right to force that belief on others.

Because of past "discussions" on the religious forums I've pretty much steered clear of that section. Everyone is passionate about what they believe in, or don't believe in. I've never met a person yet that won't defend their beliefs, no matter what they are. I do find it amusing when someone quotes bible versus to me to prove their point, knowing that I don't believe that the bible is a source of anything real.

So, to answer your question. What do I think of people like you? I think you're the same as every other person. You believe what you believe, and you don't want others preaching their beliefs to you.