I'd love to know why people think if your wiccan your going to hell, or that you're a sananist. From my experience (I was brought up christian) christian's look down upon the wiccan and or pagan religion's. Because it's not following ''god's'' will. Thus, were (wiccan's and or pagan's going to hell. It's so very rude to judge someone who believes differently. It's ignorant to also try to preach to them and convert them. Why do people do this? I personally hate it and wish I could beat people down for it. Make's me crazy. Wicca/pagan people do not have anything to do with satanism. There is what is called a left and right hand path. Light per say and dark. Neither path is evil. Satanism in a certain perspective is perfectly fine. It is wrong (to me) when a sanaist kills people or animals to sacrifice. But, it started as a ''selfinvolved'' religion. Meaning that focus was on self other then the world or other's. Wicca and pagan's are the other route. It's all about the world, nature, loving other's and life. Outward. So with all this said, how are people so blind and rasist and ignorant to those who are different. I'd love to see a person try to tell me I'm going to hell or that I'm evil. I would simply say, let me tell you what I believe. I worship the goddess-same as god. I am thankful for the world and try to care for it and the inhabitant's of it.

Not everybody does that. You talk about how Christians look down on Wiccan or pagan. Now the thing you need to realize is that Christians look down on other Christians as well. It happens with every race, every religion, every different group in society. Has judgements or opinions about each other in the same group and about others in other groups. I personally am interested in other persons belief. I would love you to tell me about about yours. At the same time you should be open to hear mine as well! I am not going to tell you, your going to hell, because that is not up to me. That is not my judgement to make, nor is it anybody else's. We all have our own experiances, opinions, thoughts, and we all have our own choices to believe in what we want to believe. There are a lot of things I feel strongly for and if it happens that something comes up I will speak up, and out. Especially if it is about harming another person, unborn baby , etc...
Anyway, Excellent post.

Joe

I will say this, not to start another long fight thread, but all Christians as part of their faith should or do believe unless you are a christain and unless you have Jesus as your Saviour, you are not going to heaven,

It is just the basic of Christian faith, the choice is Jesus and salvation or no Jesus and no salvation.

A Christian by the very beleifs they have, can not believe there is salvation in another faith.

And I will greatly disagree with what Wicca is, but she has the right to believe what she does and believe it means what she believes he means,
I have the right to believe it means something else.

I'll clear it all up by starting with, I'm not wholely a pagan/wiccan. I'm merely looking into the religion. However, I do clam to be one, so people can see that as my being one at heart. -If that makes any sense lol. I don't agree with the christian religon and some of what the bible says. I was brought up in a christian home went to first Assembaly of God all my life. But it was boring and just unfullfilling. I have a fiancé whom is of no religion. He brought up a lot of great questions, thus my beinging to question the bible and christianity as a whole. I have a friend whom is chatholic and we argue a lot (not yell an scream argue) about what is right and wrong. My moral's are the same as any one else's. So, the reason I used christianity as an example is because I was one, but I did also mean other religion's and or people. So I'm not calling anyone out. I could careless what people believe in. I'm not going to condeem them or anything. I just don't care for those who preach and or point a finger at other's whom religion is ''differnet''. Hate to say it, but what is different can instill a bit of fear or uncertainty in someone. Thus making people scared and for instance-in Salem, innocent people were killed because of being a witch or acting like one. First off, some of the test's for proving witchery was INSANE! And most of the condemmer's were catholic or prodistant christians. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus Christ does say '' Love thy neighbor'' ''Be a fisherman of men''. Uhh, killing those who are different or who appear to be evil no matter how you spin it is wrong. So this descrimanation and hate has been happening for ages. --Yes I get off topic a bit lol. So, what I'm saying is being different, (person with ton's of tatoo's) believing different,(wiccan's or hindu's) living different (gay couples) is scary and put's fear into really religious people or people in general. FEAR causes lot's of problems. Fear of the unknown. But, going back or w/e, I have a problem with christian's because of some of the thing's written in the bible and or the practice's of their daily lives. I will answer any questions, no fighting, no anger, no bashing or w/e. I would be glad to share what I believe and or think or dislike. Just ask if u'd like to know something. This is my favorite thing to debate lol.

I am not sure EXACTLY sure what I believe or what religion I'm classified under and I don't care. I believe that we all (life as a whole and the world) were created by a supreame being. ONE, god. Weither man or women. That we are to take care of this world and help other's, by showing love and kindness to all. That we should strive to better ourselves everyday. That someday we will go on to another place after death, and live in happiness their. Unless, we lived our live's as selfish and cruel. Hurt other's and did nothing to help our world. --I personally want to someday die knowing ''Hey I changed at least one thing in the world for the better''.

You have an excellent out look on life. I would love to have a friendly debate. I hope you do not judge me because I do know Jesus, I do know God. At the same time I have read bible back to front on my own. I was never pushed to believe a certain way. I have always felt a connection. I have always known God. There are times I see things in my own religion I do not agree with, but there are a lot of things I do agree with as well. I do believe that Gods spirit is within each and everyone of us, and he has written his plan in our hearts and minds and spirits. It is up to each of us to open up and to listen to it. The greatest gift in this life is to love. Loving one another. The example: Catholics and Protestants fighting with each other in other countries. About the salam and witches. I was not there. I am not guilty of hating anybody, or putting anybody to death so you can not say all Christians are bad. Just like I cannot say all wiccans are bad. Anyway I guess I tend to go off as well.

Looking forward to you asking me questions and you sharing your interests and thoughts.

Joe

My take on gods /goddesses is there may be a higher power but I do not believe he/she would want us to worship him/her/them.Christianity is the only religion that demands god worship I think.
The way I see it is you have children -- do you want them to worship you, or grow up, find their own way and move on?
I have read the Bible a few times and find many good thoughts and ways in it -- but also see some things it endorses that to me are immoral.

Sure add me if you like :-) I don't judge anyone, and what I've written isn't meant to judge. It's merely meant to enlighten. I too have read the bible. So if anyone has any question's regarding my faith or lack of w/e I can answer the best I can. Alos, I wasn't trying to pin everything on the christian's, however they seem to be less tolerant of other's from personal experience. When I have kid's I will tell them at a reasonable age what I believe in, but that there are many belief's and it's up to them to figure out there own path and forthat I will journey together with them to guide them. I may take them to different church's of different faith's. Just to show hwat's out there. They will have a choice. I never had that chocie.

That is what children should have. Is their own choice. Even though I was brought up Roman Catholic. I have been to baptist churches. Jehovah Witnesses. I have had experiances in others. Read up on many more. I have my own personal reference. I also do believe that many peoples beliefs stem from what they were taught as young. Their culture influence. Some people venture off into other different things, because they may see things they do not like but, not all of them are the same. For example: Even in the Catholic Church. You go visit 5 different Catholic churches and I guarantee that each individual church does things differently. Has different approaches to teaching etc... It is natural for the parents to want their children to believe the same. I am going to do my best to raise my son in a good church, but when he grows up and old enough to make his own choices I do not mind if he checks other things out. I remember, I said to my Grandfather that I was going to check a different church out. He got all frustrated and aggravated and said Roman Catholic religion has been in our family for 100's of years. He did not want to see me go to another denomination, which personally I think is silly.

Joe

I'll be honest with you, I'm just scared of witches. My first wife was one.

Lol... Yeah I have looked in to a lot of different religion's and learned about them either in school or at home. One of the main question's I was ask/answer here was about if satanism is really worshiping satan and if it's evil as many think. Thus, also making them think wicca/paganism is evil. When in fact satanism is origanally a branch off paganism. Origanally, satanism was just a more self involved form of paganism, which I explained earlier. They didn't worship satan and kill inoccent's. Such is the belief of (personally) ignorant people. Today there are many branches of paganism, but the root's are outward, loving and caring people. Some people are extreamist's and will be that 5% of the pagan/santanic's who worship satan and or make scarifices. Making other religion's see that and think ''oh well they all must be evil!''... this is the problem I want to solve in the world. Also, the fact that many of the christian's I know are inntollerant of other's. AND I say many of whom I know! See, I may serve the same god they do, you never know. No one know's my heart except god. I just serve him in a different way. --As I've said I'm not sure exactly what I believe, still searching.

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

I just don't care for those who preach and or point a finger at other's whom religion is ''differnet''. Hate to say it, but what is different can instill a bit of fear or uncertainty in someone.

So, what im saying is being different, (person with ton's of tatoo's) believing different,(wiccan's or hindu's) living different (gay couples) is scary and put's fear into really religious ppl or ppl in general. FEAR causes lot's of problems. Fear of the unknown.

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I think you put your finger on half of the problem here. Fear of the unknown and the different is a big part of it.

The other part is a desire to feel special, superior, chosen, in other words, spiritual pride. Fear and foolish pride explains most of the prejudice and intolerance in the world, whether it's religious, racial, nationalistic, or just schoolyard bullies.

Look, I've been wiccan for 2-3 years and believe me, I've dealt with my share of predjudice. The answer to your question is human nature. It's human nature to fear what you don't understand. And since no one likes to be afraid the fear becomes hate. I was raised catholic and now my father barely talks to me because of Wicca. Because he refuses to listen to my explanations. He's dead set on believing I'm going to Hell. But what I find very ironic is that the two religios worship the same God. The Christian religion is just to narrow minded to allow for a God-dess. No offense to any Catholics. I'[m not saying you're all narrow minded, just your religion.

No I am sorry many of us do know about wiccan and many of their beliefs, and have helped many of others coming away from it.

But no they do not worship a christian god by any means, and it is not being narrow minded it is just the truth of what the differnece is.

Wicca is not christian, Muslim is not christian, Buddhist is not christian, Christian is christian and they worship different gods.

If a wicca wants to pretend they are christian and believe in their god, they can but it merely shows they don't know their own faith.

Personally, I don't agree that we all worship the same god. Jesus Christ is a very different person then the Goddess, considering she is a women. All religion's DO believe in different god's. Aka different people that they consider worthy of worship. To deny this simple fact is to deny that the world spins on an axis. Christian's need to stop ''preaching'' I'm sick of being told that ''were christian, if you don't follow god then your not going to heaven''. First off, every religion believes that their own IS the RIGHT way and the true way. That is FACT! Fact is when something 100% truth and cannot be otherwise. Look it up in the dictionary. The FACT is EVERY religion worships different gods. What we DO have in common, is that we DO believe in A GOD. We just worship differently. So why can't we all just get along and stop trying to think like Hitler. Hitler thought that German's WERE the perfect race. Christian's think that they're the only true religion. Can't you see? EVERY religion thinks that they're there own true religion. The agreement should be that everyone, has a religion, even beliving in nothing is a religion. So, one day my hope is that the world will be of the same common belief and mindset. That the world will stop fighting over who's god is better. All I know, is that it is not right for anyone to judge or damn someone because of religion. Wicca does not pretend to be anything. That's a statement that thousands of wiccans of any sect would find rude and rasist. Wicca's VERY much know they're faith. I have friend's that are wicca and I've met other's that are too, they ALL know VERY well what they believe. And no, NO christian truly know's what wicca is. You woln't until you talk to someone who follow's the true wicca way. Not some currupted evil person who sacrifices lambs and crap. Wicca is about love, rebirth, and peace. As a x-christian, I'm ashamed to call myself x-christian. It's one of the most rasist and intolerable religions.

You don't have to be Christian to be intolerant of other religions. I know many many very gracious and humble Christians. One does have to be religious however to be like this since those who are of no religion don't have a personal religion to "defend." Some faiths may have more followers like this than others. I have yet to meet a Buddhist who does this, for example. But I don't think any one faith needs to be condemned for it. I tend to think any faith that propagates this is simply mistaken. When I have investigated it, I found its usually not the actual faith but the person's interpretation of it that is flawed. Fortunately, I see evidence that religious tolerance is a growing worldwide movement. That is very good!

I think minority religions all take something of a hit, kind of like that oddball kid in class is the target of some crappy stuff. You only need look here to see Voodoo almost getting clobbered the same way. I sometimes see lots of misunderstanding about Jehovah Witnesses too.

All prejudice is terrible and all prejudice born out of and fueled by ignorance. That's the real enemy to humanity and if I believed there really is a satan (but I do not LOL) I would acknowlege that as his greatest weapon.

I used to not believe in the devil but then I found out that that is the greatest trick satan wants to accomplish. Now I am a middle-aged Christian, and wished for a little while that I could have done without all the crap if I had only believed in Christ instead of myself!

I don't think it's appropriate to say " well, I think you're going to hell bc you aren't a Christian!" This is not for us to exclaim! God is the ultimate judge of someone's soul.
However, I can say that I do not believe that without Christ one will see heaven.

You mention an important fact- that all faiths think their God is the best. Knowledge is power here, and since God spoke and showed miracles to Moses and many of the Old Testament righteous, with written proof in the Dead Sea Scrolls- then this is the one and ONLY God!
Now, you say, don't stop there, but consider who believes in the God of Abraham. Christians, Jews, and Muslims. So, since I question Islam(not the person individually) and it's culture- I consider the Jewish religion. Very close to salvation but I see the fulfillment of the O.T. laws made free through the grace given in Jesus Christ. Of course there were miracles and witnesses and records( the resurrection being the most important )

There are no other true faiths- the rest are about the book the leader of the false religion or cult created.
I'm sorry, but your father is right, he just admonishes you roughly about it- but one thing is for sure- he knows what is RIGHT!

Retrotia, your making no sense, in your comment you said a few things that said together, are hypocritical. First,
{"I don't think it's appropriate to say " well, I think you're going to hell because you aren't a Christian!" This is not for us to exclaim! God is the ultimate judge of someone's soul."} BUT then you said {"There are no other true faiths- the rest are about the book the leader of the false religion or cult created."} That's a judgement right there. Those two staement's together in your post make your post hypocrittical. Just because some books say that God of Abraham is the ONE true god, DOES not mean that HE is. So what your saying basically is, if a person thousands of years ago wrote something like I AM God, then that must mean he's God? Wow, so if I say I'm an alien from Zoltar then it must be true too? Just because a book says something in it, FACT is it doesn't mean it's true. And of course as a christian, you would think that all other religions are false. That's what your supposed to believe as a christian. Look, I was rasied as a christian for 18 years, so I know what is in the bible OK? But the fact is that I am not gulable and intollerant of others beliefs. That is why christians need to look at there reliogion and really think, ''its this right?'' NO its not. It's not right to judge other's as you said, but as you also just did~hypocritically. It's not right to assume you're the master religion. Just like Hitler wasn't right assuming German's were the master race. It's not right to put thoughts in your head that make you treat other's of other religion's differently. It's not right to be rasist of other's religion's and that's what you few christian's are doing. ~Not everyone mind you.~ But ultimatly, that is what your doing, being rasist. By not tolerating other's. You can say your tolerant until your blue in the face, but honestly, as a person as people, are you what you say you are? Are you loving and friendly as you should be to all people? I think not. We all make mistakes. Personally, the biggest one I think many religious people make is being rasist without really knowing it. To deny a friendship with a jew, Buddhist or wiccan. To try to ''convert'' them from their ways. I say converting is wrong. It's because of fear, because of the feeling of superiority, that makes one want to ''convert'' someone. Realisicly, we need to grow up. Every faith is true to themselves, that's FACT! So to deny it is denying that we need air to breathe.

He is not my father, take note that he is a member as you and just posts things. He's not my father. That's insulting. First of all, I have never understood why its called that. Makes no sense to me. But in the future you should choose your words wisely and know what your talking about rather then making no sense.

~Meg

My mother is a Seventh Day Adventist. She only eats kosher foods. It's not like she thinks that someone else who eats a bite of bacan is burning in hell. Thankfully, she's not one of THOSE types of christians.

What's funny about christians is what they believe half the time means jack. My bf's ex (the one that recently had he's baby out of wed lock) and I used to go to the same church. No one pointed a finger at her when she got knocked up. But they practucally stoned me when I started seeing Jon 7 months later.

From what I can see, usually the ones that say things like that to you, or treat you poorly are doing it so that maybe people will look at your "sin" rather than their own that they're hiding. And in my personaly opinoin are probably going to be sitting in the hot seat far before you will.

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

I'd love to know why ppl think if your wiccan your going to hell, or that your a sananist. From my experiance (i was brought up christian) christian's look down upon the wiccan and or pagan religion's. Because it's not following ''god's'' will. Thus, were (wiccan's and or pagan's going to hell. It's so very rude to judge someone who believes differently. It's ignorant to also try to preach to them and convert them. Why do ppl do this? I personally hate it and wish i could beat ppl down for it. Make's me crazy. Wicca/pagan ppl do not have anything to do with satanism. There is what is called a left and right hand path. Light per say and dark. Neither path is evil. Satanism in a certain perspective is perfectly fine. It is wrong (to me) when a sanaist kills ppl or animals to sacrifice. But, it started out as a ''selfinvolved'' religion. Meaning that focus was on self other then the world or other's. Wicca and pagan's are the other route. It's all about the world, nature, loving other's and life. Outward. So with all this said, how are ppl so blind and rasist and ignorant to those who are different. I'd love to see a person try to tell me i'm going to hell or that i'm evil. I would simply say, let me tell you what i believe. I worship the goddess-same as god. I am thankful for the world and try to care for it and the inhabitant's of it.

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Well from a Christian's point of view. There are many gods out there, allah, baal etc... but only ONE Jehovah/Yahweh. "the goddess" is not the same as Yahweh. Yahweh is the God of the Bible. In believing in hell/heaven. That is biblical, how can anyone believe in heaven or hell w/o believing in God *Yahweh*? ANYTHING that is NOT of Yahweh (and He specifically detests and condemns witchcraft) is of the only other source out there... Satan. The deeper you get into witchcraft, the more it becomes the early stages of satanism. The evironment: air, water... is all created BY YAHWEH. God did not create any other gods to rule them. He created man to have dominion and rule *for a short time* of earth. My main point... the reason people say that witches are going to hell, is because anything other than worshiping Yahweh is seen through His eyes as turning against Him and siding with His enemy... Lucifer. And Lucifer, the known "god" of satanism is supposedly the brother of Diana... your goddess. Who Diana takes on the form of a black cat to engage in incest with. So, if you're not a christian, if you don't believe in God *Yahweh* then why would you believe in hell? And if you don't believe in hell... what are you so worried about? And why does it bother you that people tell you you're going there?