Ask Me Help Desk - Can I sue my landlord? I just found out that my apartment is illegal!

I have been renting a 3 bedroom apartment in a private home for almost a year now. We are in Islip township on Long Island. Our lease is up next month. There are also 2 other apartments with 2 other families occupying them. The landlord came to us with our new leases this weekend and it said that there was a rent increase of $250.00 a month (we already pay $2000!). When we asked him why, he told us that the utilities had been more expensive lately. Well, since we only have one meter for 3 apartments, there is no way for us to tell who used what utilities... so obviously we had a problem with this. I began doing my research through the town and discovered that he only has one c.o. on the house and it is only for a single family dwelling. There are no rental permits at all... not even for one family! The c.o. then proves that he has since made illegal constructions to the home in order to modify it, and create the multiple apartments. One of the rooms he is renting as one of our 3 bedrooms should have never even been there! I am not sure what my rights are... my son has special needs and has to be in the school district till at least the end of the year, and I also have a 2yr. Old little girl. Am I able to sue this guy for the rent that I have paid him in small claims court or something? Is he able to evict me if I refuse to pay his rent increase or sign another lease with him? I wasn't planning on moving this year. My husband and I have always paid rent on time, and have abided by our lease completely. I actually would not have known the place was illegal until he tried bullying us around. If anyone can help me, I would really appreciate it! Thanks!

You have recourses... but one of them is going to mean you are going to HAVE to find other housing, along with those other families. That's bound to make you really popular in the area.

I have no clue what compairible housing costs around there. If equal housing is more, the same or less than you were paying.

Yeah the landlord is going to get in trouble at several levels and those other families are going to have to move too as well as you, when they might be happy now being there, Until and when and even IF the landlord can get it made legal to rent.

You may want to weigh your options because it can blow up in everyone's faces. But I recommend finding new housing you actually like if you wish to pursue it first. It seems its hardest to find a nice place when you are in a rush. And not so nice places outnumber the nice ones.

There are Pro's and con's you have to weigh. Because neither you nor anyone else can live in an illegal unit once the authorities know about it. Except the property owner.

If it was just between you and him and you were leaving anyway... then its pretty much a no brainer. But you will be screwing those other two families too, as well as others if he is doing this anywhere else. It's a damn if you do and damned if you don't quandry.

You can sue anyone for anything BUT I don't see you collecting past rent here. You DID live in the apartment, whether it's legal. At this point you can't enter into a lease with him because you know the apartment is illegal and you know it. This would be similar to buying a car you know is stolen.

He can't sue you for rent and win because he can't enrich himself illegally. He can, of course, evict you but undoubtedly the authorities would simply force all of the tenants out and the eviction would never be heard.

I am specifically addressing NY, by the way. I think I'd find another place and move at my own pace rather than run the risk of being forced out.

Thanks for responding!I know what you are saying but I believed that it was legally habitable and fit to live in.Instead I have a potentially dangerous home with many violations going on.Could I say the warranty of habitability was breached here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmwest29

Could I say the warranty of habitability was breached here?

Hello J:

Say to WHO? The court?? You can SAY anything, but the fact that you're STILL there means that the apartment WAS habitable. An uninhabitable home is exactly that - UN-inhabitable.

excon

Sue for what damages, how did he damage you? He can raise or ,lower the rent at the end of each lease so don't think you can fight him because of that. Your best option is to move now that you know it is an illegal apartment. Your first post was quite lengthy and you never mentioned "a potentially dangerous home with many violations going on" so what violations have you been living with and now want to bring up because your rent is going up. Safest bet, give 30 days notice a month before the lease is up and move out, THEN report him to the local housing authorities.

Hi... Thank you! The habitability clause in the lease is different than just physically being able to occupying the space, that's why I am inquiring. I am only there because I thought I had a valid lease that would be broken if I left.

Thanks for your help! I definitely am not going to speak to authorities until I am ready to leave. One set of tenants isn't happy there and the other set are slobs that cause problems themselves. And, the landlord also rents out another place too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmwest29

Hi...Thank you! The habitability clause in the lease is different than just physically being able to occupying the space, that's why I am inquiring.

Hello again, J:

People are able to physically occupy the space underneath the freeway too, but I wouldn't call it habitable... In fact, the warranty of habitability means exactly what it says.

excon

Merely not having building permits does not mean it is not safe, or dangerous.

If you report him as a illegal apartment, you will have to move, plan and simple. The city/government will order any and all renters to move out.

If you report him to zoning, any and all buildings not done will have to be torn down to the point for inspectors to inspect it. *** thus not livable for you

So the only thing you can do is reach an agreement and say, or move. You actually can sue, for rent paid, but you can not stay there when you do.

There is a phrase for the situation you find yourself in. It is the title of a book by Joseph Heller: Catch-22. You have no recourse for a suit because you suffered no damages. The only entity that can sue this guy is the Town of Islip because I'm sure he was not paying the appropriate taxes for a 3-family rental unit.

As soon as you report it, you will have to move. So tell him you will not sign the new lease, but want to continue on a month to month basis until you can find a new place. And they you will give him 30 days notice before you vacate.

Once you move out, you can get your revenge by reporting him to the Town.

p.s. Please don't use the Comments feature for followups, use the Answer options instead.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Most of you have been very helpful and respectful with your answers. For the others that seem to be offended that I am asking certain questions, I am not sure why you insist on responding to me if you are that bothered by what I am asking. I am sorry but I believe it is dangerous when a person makes modifications to his home that were not done according to certain building, fire and safety codes, etc. I have brought multiple things to the landlord's attention that he has ignored and/or refused to fix. It's not like I all the sudden have an issue simply because my rent is being raised. By the way, at the end of the day I contacted a Long Island attorney in our town that actually knows the correct town laws and I am now being represented. So, for those of you that say that I cannot fight the landlord, and that the landlord can do whatever he wants and I have to pay the rent increase, I know for a fact that this is not correct. According to my new legal counsel, he may have been able to raise the rent at the end if the apartment is legal, but because it is not he is not allowed to. In fact, he isn't supposed to be collecting anything at all without all the right c.o.'s and permits. It sounds like we have some fellow illegal landlords out there that are posting angry comments because God forbid someone who has been clearly screwed over by one of these slumlords wants to know what THEIR rights are, right? Again, thank you to the majority of you that cared enough to share your insight with someone in a difficult situation!

WHOA! First, I just reviewed all the responses and I think you are being overly sensitive. I don't know if you have had other experiences with sites like this but, you have to understand that we have to go by what you tell us. And what you told us initially was you wanted to sue your landlord because he was raising your rent and you find its an illegal apartment. Some of your responses were a little brusque, but I find the responses were accurate based on the information provided. And I know all the people involved here and none of them is a slumlord.

Second, we didn't say you couldn't fight the landlord, what we said was you couldn't sue him to recover rent already paid. If the local attorney is telling you different, I'd like to see the statute or case law he's basing his opinion on.

Just because he did the work without permit or CO does not mean the work was substandard. But even if it was, that doesn't mean you can sue for past rent. To win a suit you have to show damages and I still don't see any.

As someone else responded, you can refuse to pay the increase and that may put the landlord in a tenuous position because he can't file for an eviction at the risk of the town finding he is renting illegally. But an angry landlord can make your life miserable without running afoul of the law. So once you decide to fight, you better be prepared to move. That advice is meant for your benefit, not the landlords.

And as noted, you can extract your revenge by reporting him. He will be fined by the Building Dept. sued for back taxes and maybe more. But that's not going to get any money into your pocket.

Finally, as to things he has ignored or not fixed. There is a procedure for dealing with that. Generally you give the LL a reasonable time to repair the problem, if he doesn't you either report the violations to the building dept or you get an estimate on the cost of the repair then inform the landlord that you will be fixing the issues and withholding the costs from the rent. If you don't follow the proper procedure, you can't get damages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmwest29

Thank you everyone for the feedback. Most of you have been very helpful and respectful with your answers. For the others that seem to be offended that I am asking certain questions, I am not sure why you insist on responding to me if you are that bothered by what I am asking. I am sorry but I believe it is dangerous when a person makes modifications to his home that were not done according to certain building, fire and safety codes, etc. I have brought multiple things to the landlord's attention that he has ignored and/or refused to fix. It's not like I all the sudden have an issue simply because my rent is being raised. By the way, at the end of the day I contacted a Long Island attorney in our town that actually knows the correct town laws and I am now being represented. So, for those of you that say that I cannot fight the landlord, and that the landlord can do whatever he wants and I have to pay the rent increase, I know for a fact that this is not correct. According to my new legal counsel, he may have been able to raise the rent at the end if the apartment is legal, but because it is not he is not allowed to. In fact, he isn't supposed to be collecting anything at all without all the right c.o.'s and permits. It sounds like we have some fellow illegal landlords out there that are posting angry comments because God forbid someone who has been clearly screwed over by one of these slumlords wants to know what THEIR rights are, right? Again, thank you to the majority of you that cared enough to share your insight with someone in a difficult situation!

Property owners have rights too... not just tenants. After all, who would YOU rent a property from if they just stopped renting because the balance tipped too far towards the renters and against their rights as the people stuck with the costs incurred by bad Tennant's.

Before you can jump all over Landlords... you have to walk a mile in their shoes. Until you do you really don't know what they have to put up with.

Maybe this landlord pulled a few quick ones... and the only reason you are upset is because he wanted to raise the rent. Ignoring any violations he might be guilty of... if the city, county and state raises his tax assessments will I am 1,000% sure happened to him like it has the rest of us who actually own property, exactly who do you think is going to have to pay them? Why do you think it shouldn't filter down to the tenants... Being a Landlord isn't a charity, and it certainly isn't meant to be a non-profit. And no rational person would try and argue the landlord should operate at a loss.

I am speaking from the perspective of someone who was once along with my family landlords. I could write a book about why I would never rent anything I own to anyone ever again. And Being remotely familiar with local Washington DC code bias against Landlords... I don't know why most don't just tear down their buildings and pave over the lots until legislation more in their favor is enacted... and I know NY isn't that far behind... and in some ways is even worse.

Seriously take a look at what you have said... YOU were happy before... but are only upset because he wanted to raise the rent when the lease expires... and not just that, you want to line your pockets?

Who here said you had no options... nobody, but there is a lot that can be done against you... the least of which is you having to find a new place... possibly in a different school area. The neighbors I commented on? Ever know any people that were how would we say... not very nice, or possibly have gang affiliations.

Technically having the Moral high ground doesn't make you immune from reactions to what happens as the result of what you do. There is the law of the courts, but the Law of the streets is far more brutal. And one you not never forget. That's why I commented on not being very popular with your neighbors... and just because the landlord MIGHT have been guilty of something... and you can prove it... but what good is that going to do if the friends of the not-so-nice neighbors decide to take it out on you or your family. You know... you might get lucky and it would never happen... in fact I hope it doesn't... but the reality is there are LOTS of people in LOTS of places, that don't think like you, or me.

Being street smart means you should just walk away from certain situations in your own best interest rather than make a huge stink even if you are right. Reality is the police aren't going to look out for you.. they have their hands full. And bad things happen to good people every day... even with the police nearby.

You can easily end up losing the war even if you win that battle.

If that wasn't too clear... let me spell it out. IF you sue him and win... what good is that going to do you if one of his tenants that gets put out on the street because of your actions has ties to a particularly violent street gang (or the Landlord himself) and you you can't tell by looking at them.. not if they are smart, who then finds you via court records which are public record? And they do what they do.

Yeah... you CAN do something, you might even win something. But are the potential repercussions worth it. Because those are very real.

The police are rarely there to prevent a crime... they always show up after it happens. And having been a renter, and having seen too many other renters... I would never ever assume any of them share the same moral standards you, or your neighbors that OWN their own places either..

Again... all any of us pointed out... you aren't just playing with fire... you will be throwing gasoline on it. Expect to get burnt... and count on losing this reference when applying for a new rental. If you bring up WHY you can't use them... you appear to be a hostile renter... and they will find a way to not rent to you... if you simply omit the info, they might question why the omission.

Crusades have a way of turning out bad... for both sides.

We aren't AGAINST you... just trying to get you to see its NOT as cut and dry as you may think it is. It rarely ever is. And nobody here wants to see anything happen to you. Just that most of us have been through Street Smart University... and atttended the School of hard knocks. SO we have seen what CAN happen. And a lot of people are going through hard times so their tempers are on a very short fuse. Little things might set them off that otherwise wouldn't.

Actually I said they could sue and maybe get the rent back, but as soon as they do, and the city/state declares this an illegal rental, they will have to move, Often that day, I have known Code enforcement to order utilities turned off to illegal rentals.

So they hae rights, but enforcing any of them will almost for sure get the person evicted, I assumed they did not want to be evicted.

For example if there was electrical work done, the building inspector may have the electric turned off, till it is inspected and fixed, which could take weeks or more.

Yes, you are right that crazy things can happen to even the most moral of people. Thankfully, I live in a really nice upper middle class neighborhood where crime is very very low. Neither of the other sets of tenants are people who would retaliate at all, let alone in an aggressive way. We happen to get along very well with one set of the tenants... they are far from aggressive and are also unhappy with the current living situation. The other set of tenants moved in just a few months ago, and although I said previously that the family is slobbish, they are not threats to us in any way... they are nice enough, just not the most cleanly. If anything, the other neighboring homeowners would thank us because they are tired of having all the cars taking up the street and all the other things that are making the value of their property depreciate. I already know that the neighbor that lives on the other side of him has already had problems with him... I am surprised no one on our street has called the town already. All it takes is one of those people to call, and we ALL would have nowhere to go.
Also, I think there is a misunderstanding... I was not looking to withhold rent. I was merely inquiring as to if I was able to recover it after I had left, and the proper authorities were called. When people enter a lease, the lease signifies a presumtion that the landlord has the right to rent that said property, and that everything is safe and up to code. In my township, if a landlord is found to be renting without a permit, they are severely fined and can face jail time. Then, in my case the landlord faces fines from the zoning and building department, the IRS for failure to report income, failure to pay proper taxes, and the list goes on. I am not to blame for the fact that the landlord made the conscious decision to illegally rent his homes. People like this have no quams about collecting the money, bullying you around, not fixing the things that he promised to... but yet we are supposed to pity them when it backfires in their faces. In my opinion, this is his own unraveling, and he has no right to collect a dime from us in the first place, let alone be greedy and ask for an illegal increase!! I am just glad that I did finally seek legal counsel in my area, because with all these conflicting opinions of what rights are, or aren't, what recourse I have or don't have, it is very easy for someone to accept the wrong information as truth and make the wrong choice. Laws are very different in each area regarding this, so while someone may be speaking from experience from one state, it may not be the correct laws for the person in question. Thank you all for your help and concern... I will update you on how this turns out so others may learn from my situation, and not fall into the same pitfalls. For now, my advice would be that before you even consider renting a place, go to Town Hall, pay the $5 and get a copy of the c.o.'s and rental permits... it will save you a big headache!

You know there are two sides to every story. Long Island is housing poor, especially for rentals. So instead of being a slumlord, maybe he's trying to provide some affordable housing and, to do so, he has to cut corners. I'm not saying that's the case here, but you are looking at things from a very narrow perspective.

As to him having no right to collect anything that's also a two-way street. You got a place to live, you presumably inspected the place before signing the lease. The problems you encountered were apparently not that bad that you didn't pursue them with building dept.

Frankly you keep seeing things in our responses that just aren't there. Like I don't know where you got that anyone said you should pity them. Or where there were conflicting opinions. To summarize the opinions were consistent that you could not win a suit because you suffered no material damages. That you can report the illegal rental, but the likelihood is that you would have to move because the house would probably be shut down. And if your lawyer is telling you anything different I'd, again, like to know what statute or case law he's basing that on.

Well, with all due respect Scott, you may be one hell of a computer expert but you are not an attorney, and neither am I. I have no idea what my attorney is basing his facts on, but I do know that he is the top attorney in this field and I trust that he knows what he is doing. If I knew what the legal answers were, I certainly wouldn't be on this supposed "help desk", now would I? If you read the other posts, you will come across one saying that landlords aren't a charity, shouldn't be operating at a loss, and yadda yadda yadda, to I was referring to this. My landlord is not acting like a charity at all... he is defrauding various levels of government as well as the tenants who believed they had a real lease in a rentable place. He gets 4 illegal rents... mine is $2000, the others are $1800, $1400 and $1200. He is hardly hurting. He drives around in his rolls royce with his wad of illegal cash while my husband and I work 2 jobs a piece, busting our butts to get the things that we need... the LEGAL way! Anything can look OK appearance-wise and that does not mean that it was done properly. And, there are always the things that you aren't aware of until after you move in. I had no idea that the landlord had all 12 of us on the same hot water tank, and it is damn near impossible for all of us to take hot showers, wash our clothes, and wash our dishes everyday. That is just the start of it. I have two small children whose safety is of utmost importance to me, and knowing that there could be a fire due to one of his wonderful projects is a problem for me. I am not the one who has the burden of proving to the town that he has done everything correctly to code... he does. If these people really want the extra income then they should do it legitimately. Illegal is illegal is illegal, and there are no other ways about it. No court out here is going to allow him to profit from an illegal situation, so although I may not have suffered through an actual burning building yet, from what I understand is that the courts are going to pretty much penalize him through giving us our money back, thus negating the lease that we had with him. You can think that I am being narrow-minded all you want, but I call it focusing in on what actually matters to me. When all is said and done, I will move on (we plan to buy our own home and eliminate all this rental crap from now on), and I will be able to rest knowing that some justice was served on this creep of a landlord. Like I said, I will let everyone know how it turns out... I think you may be surprised at the outcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmwest29

No court out here is going to allow him to profit from an illegal situation..... from what I understand is that the courts are going to pretty much penalize him through giving us our money back, thus negating the lease that we had with him. You can think that I am being narrow-minded all you want, but I call it focusing in on what actually matters to me....

I think you may be surprised at the outcome.

Hello again, J:

Yet, you want to profit from that very same illegal situation. I don't think it's narrow minded of you to think that way. You think exactly like your landlord. He likes his money. So do you..

Yes, I WILL be surprised if the courts let you live free. Please let us know how it turns out.

excon

Whoa... you start tossing around DEFRAUDING... You rented a house... you got a house... you were happy with the house... you had no issues until he notified you of a rent increase.

For all you know this will easily pass all required inspections without major work. Unless you are in the construction field and a General contractor or a housing inspector... you can't state it won't meet code or is dangerous.

Nobody argues he is right for bypassing some regulations... trust me... when YOU own a house you will find out how easy it is to violate some code or ordinance.

I am the one that made comments about Landlords being entitled to make money of their property they have to pay for, pay taxes on and pay to maintain and repair when a lot of renters tear the place up.

Landlord ISN'T synonymous with charity, or homeless shelter. They are entitled to a profit... after you buy your place... and I do recommend it if you can. You will discover all the little things that nicle and dime you that you take for granted right now.

Sorry, but your comments in your last post sound like you think you are entitled to something because he has more than you do.

I highly recommend you buy a place and rent it out... to others. I bet your attitude towards this does a 180 degree about face.

Don't like to rent... then buy a place... but then you are also paying for all those little things you don't even know about as a renter... like calling the plumber to snake the pipes at 3am because your kid thought it would be cool to flush his Aquaman action figure down the toilet.

So instead of ranting leave and buy your own place... prices haven't been this low in over a decade.

If he was ripping you off at $2,000 then why didn't you move into a cheaper place... or is the median rent higher than that...

Read your own words... please... sit back and read them.

When you find out what the taxes are per year on a house or Condo... in your area, you are going to choke.. suprise... that has a lot to do with high rent prices. Didn't think you could get something for nothing by bleeding the property owners. It all gets passed on as it should.

Good luck finding another rental without this reference... they look real close at recent and last landlord references, to weed out the deadbeats... and assume you have something to hide when you leave on out or give a fake one.

But hey... I've only been on this planet 49 years... have been a landlord that's been shafted by more than one renter who was given a good deal... and then turned around and screwed us.

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

Incidentally... if you already had all the answers, why did you come here?

I certain hope I don't hear about something happening in long Island on the national news. I live in a Nicer area than you. (you can't rent a single family home for less than ($3,500 a month) and there are few townhouses and even fewer apartments... and I still know people you better not ever look the wrong way at...

So do you know what his costs are, what his taxes are? YOu will be surprised to know the margin isn't nearly as high as you thing it is... ever price a new roof? New Furnace... those don't last forever, and they are far from cheap. Try well over $10,000 some times over $30,000 on nicer places. Rollthat into the mortgage, taxes that constantly go higher... and they HAVE jumped a lot this year.

We can banter all day... but the best justice for a renter that thinks they are getting ripped off... is buy your own place... PLEASE. Deal with the Homeowners associations that tell you what color to use and what flowers you can plant, how often you have to paint and mow the grass... etc... even after they take gobs of YOUR money every month...

Trust me... nothing will wake you up to the realities than buying your own place. Ignore something too long and find out how expensive it can really get to fix.

Most illegal units are rented at below market rates... people that rent them like the lower costs... but then, think $2,500 was high, wait till the only place you can find that as nice will cost you $3,000 a month. But it has its permits!

Seriously... you aren't in a slum... Drive up to the Bronx if you want to see real slums. Better yet, NYC has great subways.. take the long Island expressway into town and a subway up to the bronx. Make a day trip out of it... help put it into perspective what being bad off really is.