Perhaps nothing has made the situation in Afghanistan more telling than Wikileaks and this particular piece even more telling
Rudd: 'Scared as hell'

What is described here however briefly is the stuff of legend, allies who have very bad views of each others efforts and a view that irrespective of how up the US assessments are, we are all wasting our time, personel and money. Nothing new in that

Hello clete:

Isn't it better to KNOW the war is lost? Having been so informed, maybe we can prevent further devastation and loss of life.

excon

Afghanistan scares the hell out of me too . What scares me worse is abandoning the effort. I would not respect a politician that was not deeply concerned about sending troops into battle .

But this stupid leak does nothing to addresss Rudd's comittment despite his concerns. It is a junk leak that is meaningless and adds nothing to the debate.

What the leak really reveals is Rudd's concern about some countries in NATOs commitment to the effort . But that was cherry picked out of the link. He is quoted as saying the US, Canada, UK, Australia and the Dutch were doing the "hard stuff", while France and Germany were "organising folk-dancing festivals".

I would also point out that this is old news out of content . The new reality is the surge approved by President Obama ,led by General Petraeus. . I would argue that the only reason Assange cherry picked this doc is to infuence an outcome he desires. In other words... he plays politics while he argues for transparency. He's a propagandist.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Afghanistan scares the hell out of me too . What scares me worse is abandoning the effort.

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Hello again, tom:

George W. Bush LOST Afghanistan when he took his eye off the ball, and invaded Iraq. You cannot IGNORE wars. Doing so, HAS consequences. IF it was EVER winnable, that time has long passed.

excon

What these leaks show up is the cr*p we all know we have been fed. We know Afghanistan isn't winnable, if it were the US steamroller would have rolled over the place by now and paved it with concrete. But then, we knew it wasn't winnable from the start, the Russians and history had already proven that. We got the best we could hope to do, removing OBL and now we should wrap it up and go do something else, if nothing more than give the troops a well earned rest.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello clete:

Isn't it better to KNOW the war is lost? Having been so informed, maybe we can prevent further devastation and loss of life.

excon

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If that is so Ex why hasn't it stopped? No we go on supporting a narco-regime while calling it nation building and preventing terrorism. I cannot understand why, if the US has a war on drugs, the poppy fields in Afghanistan are left to flourish.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

If that is so Ex why hasn't it stopped?

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Hello again, clete:

Because we're slow on the uptake.. You mentioned Vietnam... That war was lost in 1968, if not before, but it took us until 1975 to get it.

excon

No it was lost in 1975 when the US Congress decided to renage on a commitment to a free country being attacked by a Communist dictatorship.

Yes the Diem's... ooops I mean the Karzai's need to be addressed . My suggestion ,next time don't have the UN monitor the elections.
But as bad as they are ,a return to the Taliban tyranny would be much worse ,a truly shameful outcome.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:

Because we're slow on the uptake.. You mentioned Vietnam... That war was lost in 1968, if not before, but it took us until 1975 to get it.

excon

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Ex you are dreaming again, I didn't say Vietnam, Ssshhhhhh! But the similarities are remarkable, aren't they. The Afghanistan war was lost in 2001 at Tora Bora and why? Because the US relied on its "allies", the local people.

It is unfortunate that the US has'nt got it yet, but then the casualty list isn't as large as Vietnam, but what you need to do now is avoid a rout. I know you think it couldn't happen, again, but history is against you. A rag, tag group of towel heads just might chase your superior arms out of their country by refusing to fight the war the way you would like. Never mind, you can sit in your armchairs and take potshots at them with your drones.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I cannot understand why, if the US has a war on drugs, the poppy fields in Afghanistan are left to flourish.

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Hello again, clete:

Because the war on drugs is REALLY Jim Crow disguised. It's not meant to eliminate drugs. It's meant to increase police power and keep the races in check.

If we REALLY had a war on drugs, the CIA wouldn't have ferried cocaine for the cartels. But they did. If we REALLY had a war on drugs, we wouldn't let the cops KEEP the money they find. If we REALLY had a war on drugs, we would destroy the Afghan poppy's, that absolutely WILL wind up on American streets as heroine.

But, we don't care about drugs... It's the colored people...

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:

Because the war on drugs is REALLY Jim Crow disguised. It's not meant to eliminate drugs. It's meant to increase police power and keep the races in check.

If we REALLY had a war on drugs, the CIA wouldn't have ferried cocaine for the cartels. But they did. If we REALLY had a war on drugs, we wouldn't let the cops KEEP the money they find. If we REALLY had a war on drugs, we would destroy the Afghan poppy's, that absolutely WILL wind up on American streets as heroine.

But, we don't care about drugs... It's the colored people....

excon

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What's this Ex white people don't use and distribute drugs? I think you have been smoking silly weed again. Next thing you will be telling me is the war on drugs is really a CIA plot to conquer Latin America and they invented Al Qaeda to conquer Afghanistan. Well you might be right, who knows what plots Langley would hatch