In a few days various exalted personages, that is those who seem to know more that the rest of us, will meet in Cancun Mexico to talk up global warming and climate change. There has been little promotion of these talks as there was at the last summit except for a new report saying we have been right all along, temperature is rising. My quibble is not with whether temperatures are rising, although I do think the statistics are a little short term to be sure of anything, but with the assertion that our life style causes it and we have the ability to stop or reverse it.

When they can get a real correlation between the increase in greenhouse gases and the increase in temperature I might believe them but until then I remain a skeptic and squarely in the camp of this fits a long term natural trend of interglacial period temperatures and our activities are coincidential.

Cancun ? Well there they know it will not snow ,and chances are good there will be "warm" days.It appears they've learned not to hold these conferences in places it might snow.

Two weeks in the sun ,sucking down margarita's, to have a go at another attempt at creating a tradable global carbon market. If they fail to agree this time ;well ,at least they'll come home with a good tan .

It'll fail again because the Chinese object to the pesky and "inconvenient "American provision that all pledges be “measurable, reportable and verifiable.”

Nothing meaningful will happen there .They have at least learned their lesson about building up expectations. Perhaps last year they were seduced by what they believed was the magical powers of persuasion of the latest Nobel Peace Prize winner. This year ,he's nursing stitches from a basketbrawl game ;and few world leaders will attend at all.

This will be a meeting of bureaucratic apparatchik partying by night ,sleeping in cabanas or under the sun by day... all on the taxpayer's dime.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It'll fail again because the Chinese object to the pesky and "inconvenient "American provision that all pledges be “measurable, reportable and verifiable.”

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Hi Tom,

I think this is correct. In the end the earth may be warming but the available data doesn't support this claim. As it stands the evidence for global warning is inconclusive.

Regards

Tut

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As it stands the evidence for global warning is inconclusive.

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Which warning was that Tut? The warning not to believe everything we are told? Perhaps not to believe the warning from that exalted personage Gore? I think we should pay attention to some other things that might cause some big changes in the next century or so. Global warming might be the least of our worries

Hello:

Here's my take on it. I'm NOT a scientist, but throwing garbage into the air IS going to do something bad. I don't need a scientist to tell me that... Besides, we ARE running OUT of fossil fuels, so even if they DON'T cause global warming, we're going to have to find an alternative in any case...

So, why don't we concentrate on THAT?? IF global warming IS true, we're going to kill TWO birds with one stone... If it's NOT true, we're still going to kill ONE bird... That's good, no?

excon

PS> Actually we'll kill THREE birds with one stone... We'll STOP enriching our enemy's, and maybe build up our OWN economy... That's good, no??

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Here's my take on it. I'm NOT a scientist, but throwing garbage into the air IS going to do something bad. I don't need a scientist to tell me that... Besides, we ARE running OUT of fossil fuels, so even if they DON'T cause global warming, we're going to have to find an alternative in any case....

So, why don't we concentrate on THAT??? IF global warming IS true, we're gonna kill TWO birds with one stone.... If it's NOT true, we're still gonna kill ONE bird... That's good, no??

excon

PS> Actually we'll kill THREE birds with one stone... We'll STOP enriching our enemy's, and maybe build up our OWN economy... That's good, no???

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I agree we shouldn't just put junk into the air water and land but lets face it. This carbon credit thing is just a transfer of wealth. We have tighter controls at least here in America already. But lets face it. We can't be the only ones and there is truly nothing we can do to "make" the rest of the world comply. And the giant sloth of government isn't going to move quickly into anything unless they can make a buck off it or gain votes. Even with our current technology we could double the gas milage of cars but the government is stopping us from doing so. We as consumers need to steer the technology and also get out of the rut we have been in.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

We can't be the only ones and there is truely nothing we can do to "make" the rest of the world comply...

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Hello again, dad:

I wasn't supporting any particular legislation. I'm just pointing out a problem and a possible solution. My POINT is that the problem and its solution have NOTHING to do with whether you BELIEVE in global warming, the Goricle, or climategate... Because THAT is where the argument seems to focus. It MISSES the mark. I wonder if HATRED for Al Gore and all things leftwards, blinds us to the real problems we're facing. It LOOKS that way to me.

No, dad. We can't "make" the world comply... But we can LEAD the world, like we always have, so that it WANTS to comply. And, we DO that by making alternative energy PROFITABLE. We fan the flames of green technology by offering government incentives. Yes, it involves some spending, or as I prefer to call it, INVESTMENT. The Chinese are doing it. We really don't want them to get the lead in that industry, do we?

Truly, it'll solve ALL our problems... Really - ALL of 'em.

excon

PS> Yes, I know... My friend tom and I agree. The technology has NOT yet revealed itself to us. To ME it means that we haven't invested enough. To tom, my guess is, it means we've invested too much, or it's too soon, and WAITING for the technology to come about is the thing to do.

PPS> If it also happens to solve the problem - or NON existent problem - of global warming, that's an EXTRA benefit.

The technology exists today that we can use to go green. But the very people that scream green don't want it. The other part of the equation is we have to learn to accept failure. Yes I said it. We need to learn when we have made a mistake to correct our compass and move on. This do over mentality isn't cutting it. Another thing that isn't being addressed is the risk factor. It seems the line being towed currently doesn't want risk and thinks it has to be an absolute winner every time they make a commitment. For every "win" there is a loss somewhere. We need to mitigate those losses carefully in order to make a future.

My son just spent time working in Birmingham AL. He told me they don't recycle anything there. It just goes in one big garbage bin.

Has anyone seen the commercial down there about plastic water bottles. It's a Bottle on a board table after a meeting and it says something like here for a minute but forever in a land fill.

I know for sure we are consistent here in Ontario at least, and I guess I can speak for other provinces as well. Maybe some of our Canadian members in different provinces can chime in. We employ many people in our garbage sorting facilities to make sure it is actually done at the bottom line.

So I guess what I am saying is everyone has to get their act together to initiate climate chain, and that would almost be impossible to do given the scope of area and people involved.

If Birmingham AL can't recycle anything, then I guess that says a lot.

How many actually posting here sort their garbage, wet, dry, compostable. I hardly have any wet garbage aside from meat scraps and they can't go in my composter, but all organic stuff does, and that goes back into my garden after its composted. I hardly have any wet garbage that has to go to the dump.

Tick

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How many actually posting here sort their garbage, wet, dry, compostable. I hardly have any wet garbage aside from meat scraps and they can't go in my composter, but all organic stuff does, and that goes back into my garden after its composted. I hardly have any wet garbage that has to go to the dump.

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How fast can I raise my hand for all the above ? My wet garbage is indeed the smallest container. I even have the advantage of a black bear who is willing to turn my compost periodically .

I don't drink water from plastic bottles .Everyone who does should research Bisphenol A (BPA). I filter tap water and store it in metal hiking bottles. Besides I'm cheap and think even discounted retail water is a rip off.

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Originally Posted by tickle

How many actually posting here sort their garbage,

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Hello tick:

Before your post, I would have thought that the entire country was on board with recycling.. Maybe it's because I live on the left coast. But even the deep south thinks recycling is good... No??

I've got to get out more.

excon

Yes ex, throwing trash in the air is bad, but this isn't about climate policy any more.

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First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tick:

Before your post, I would have thought that the entire country was on board with recycling.. Maybe it's because I live on the left coast. But even the deep south thinks recycling is good... No???

I've got to get out more.

excon

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Son noticed it because recycling is second nature to him, so when he had recycleable material, he started looking for somewhere to put it in his hotel and was told, no just put it in the regular garbage. We have coloured boxes here, blue boxes are recycling. How do you do it ? Do you have color coded boxes ? All recycling is put out at the curb in clear plastic bags.

Tick

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Originally Posted by tickle

How do you do it ?

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Hello again, tick:

The city provides containers for garbage, recycle, glass, and yard waste. There's a fine if you put stuff in the WRONG container.

Doesn't EVERY city do that?

excon

We have the color coded bins. The only thing is that I can't vouch for what the carters do once they pick up. This is NY .

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Yes ex, throwing trash in the air is bad, but this isn't about climate policy any more

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Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, he has his agenda. I'm just trying to save the world.

excon

Edenhofer is a UN IPCC official ,so his agenda carries some weight into this meeting .

Here is another guy who let out what his true desire was after the Copenhagen meeting .

'Given the failure of Copenhagen, I'm inclined to believe that semi-annual conferences are not the way to go. Instead, I'd like to see the United Nations assemble an international and permanent emergency session that is parliamentary in nature (i.e. representative and accountable) and dedicated to debating and acting on the problem of anthropogenic climate change (a sub-parliament, if you will). The decisions of this governing board would be binding and impact on all the nations of the world.'"[George Dvorsky, a director of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies]
Sentient Developments: Five simple reasons why the Copenhagen Climate Conference failed

This is not about the earth warming or cooling,or if we can find the next energy source. This whole charade is the latest attempt at world governance.

When that is realized and the Kyoto process finally mercifully dies then perhaps rational diologue and true science can again emerge.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

This is not about the earth warming or cooling,or if we can find the next energy source. This whole charade is the latest attempt at world governance.

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Edenhofer touched on that, too, in the same interview. He said, "basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization."

With Climategate, the science president's administration making crap up to stop drilling in the gulf, the Goracle's admission that his support for ethanol subsidies was just to get votes and these clowns admitting that science is beside the point, why isn't everyone fed up with this hoax?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Edenhofer touched on that, too, in the same interview. He said, "basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization."

With Climategate, the science president's administration making crap up to stop drilling in the gulf, the Goracle's admission that his support for ethanol subsidies was just to get votes and these clowns admitting that science is beside the point, why isn't everyone fed up with this hoax?

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Its not a hoax. It has grown beyond that to a religion. And a very dangerous one at that.

And we know how dangerous religion can be.