Ask Me Help Desk - Okay.. Teaching 'down'

I've decided that I want my dog to finally learn down. He has easily learned most commands, but this one he just can NOT get. I've tried before and just gotten frustrated.

I need alternate ways of teaching him this command. People tell me to use a treat, and lower it to the ground, he will follow it.

He doesn't. He stays where he is and just watches it with his eyes. He sometimes will lower his head to the ground, and when I move the treat away to see if he will follow it down, he stops and just stares at it.

I've been working on it literally for hours with absolutely no success. I need alternate ideas on how to get my stubborn dog to learn..

Would he allow you to grab his front legs?

Try placing the treat just far enough away so he can't reach it sitting up, then take both front paws in your hand and lower him down manually, then when he's on the ground he can grab the treat.

Other option would be to gently put your hand over his shoulders while he is sitting and push to encourage him to dip his front legs down.

Drop is one of the hardest tricks to learn for some reason but once they get it once it's a piece of cake from then on.

I've tried that. When I get his paws and start to lower, he simply stands up on his back feet. If I try to gently push him down as you mentioned, he ends up in some demented play-bow like pose.

Hmmmm...

Does he come when you call him? Maybe try setting up an obstacle he has to duck to get under when you call him and offer a treat?

Even something like a low coffee table or even a broom handle and try to encourage him to duck under it.

So many dirty responses, so little time! :D

I always found my best success was getting the dog to sit, and taking a treat and putting in front of the nose and dragging it along the floor, until your dog is in the lay position, do this a few times, and then associate the name with the action.

He does very eagerly yes.
I will give it a shot, but knowing him he will probably jump over it or go around it..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

So many dirty responses, so little time!! :D

I always found my best success was getting the dog to sit, and taking a treat and putting in front of the nose and dragging it along the floor, until your dog is in the lay position, do this a few times, and then associate the name with the action.

That's my problem! He won't move. He will sit and watch it, but not move otherwise, unless of course I drag it too far, then he will just shimmy forward so he can stare at it some more.

YouTube - Dog Training : How to Train Your Dog to Lie Down

The first example is what I use along with the hand signal.

That's the method I've used to train all the other dog's I've trained commands to.. but this little bugger doesn't move like that. He would rather just watch the treat move around.

When training my dogs, we would make sure they are wearing a collar. Have the dog sit. Get down on the dogs level by kneeling in fron of him. Then, say the dogs name to get attention and say down and pull down slowly on the front of the collar towards the ground. Not with enough force to hurt, but enough to make sure he goes down. When he is in the down position, make sure to give a lot of praise and some sort of reward. Practice many times reducing how hard you pull on the collar each time. Eventually, he should be able to do this command without you pulling on him or kneeling by him. Best of luck :)

Dogs that are insecure will not down no matter what you do. You're going to have to get him over his insecureness by having him lay down next you while you mess with his feet, roll him around on his back.. Basically make it a game and fun to be down.

Overly dominante dogs won't down either. That is a completely different route to take to teach down though.

You mentioned previously that he has separation anxiety. Anxiety in dogs is usually seen in dogs that are insecure with themselves or surroundings.

To introduce down to an insecure dog, I usually am on the floor with them and not really make it a lesson the first couple tries. Just get him to lay down next to you. Pet him, give in treats if you want. Play with him and a toy. Teach him that its OK to be in the down position in your presence.. Laying down is a VERY submissive move on a dogs part.. and if he doesn't feel comfortable, he won't do it.

You might also need to find what works for you and your dog. The treat between the front legs trick might not work for him. There are other methods.. you just need to find what will work for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky098

Dogs that are insecure will not down no matter what you do. You're going to have to get him over his insecureness by having him lay down next you while you mess with his feet, roll him around on his back.. Basically make it a game and fun to be down.

Overly dominante dogs wont down either. That is a completely different route to take to teach down though.

You mentioned previously that he has separation anxiety. Anxiety in dogs is usually seen in dogs that are insecure with themselves or surroundings.

To introduce down to an insecure dog, I usually am on the floor with them and not really make it a lesson the first couple tries. Just get him to lay down next to you. Pet him, give in treats if you want. Play with him and a toy. Teach him that its ok to be in the down position in your presence.. Laying down is a VERY submissive move on a dogs part.. and if he doesnt feel comfortable, he wont do it.

You might also need to find what works for you and your dog. The treat between the front legs trick might not work for him. There are other methods.. you just need to find what will work for him.

His separation anxiety has pretty much dissipated entirely, unless the whole shadowing me counts as that. He is comfortable laying beside me, rolling around, playing, etc etc. But when I try to make it into a command, it's lost on him.
That's why I'm here, seeing if people have alternate ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunshinechild69

when training my dogs, we would make sure they are wearing a collar. Have the dog sit. Get down on the dogs level by kneeling in fron of him. Then, say the dogs name to get attention and say down and pull down slowly on the front of the collar towards the ground. Not with enough force to hurt, but enough to make sure he goes down. When he is in the down position, make sure to give alot of praise and some sort of reward. Practice many times reducing how hard you pull on the collar each time. Eventually, he should be able to do this command without you pulling on him or kneeling by him. Best of luck :)

That works the same as the idea Shaz used, he instead resists and his back end stands up.
Maybe he has a tinge of dominance in him, but I haven't really seen much else behaviour wise that would support that.

He likes to be difficult doesn't he!

I'm just trying to think of ways you can get him to do it naturally and just 'roll with it'

Does he have any favourite toys he chases or anything like that?
Perhaps tossing the toy under your bed so he has to squeeze in after it? Or maybe squeezing yourself under the bed and calling him (if you get desperate lol)
Or sitting on the floor with your legs in front of you but your knees bent up and encouraging him to run under them.

I'm clutching at straws here but we are bound to find a solution eventually.

Haha, I will find something. He's short enough he can walk under the bed. I'll try the leg thing for a bit..

Yes, him following you around like a shadow is still his separation anxiety.

Dogs that follow owners around like a shadow is actually a big no-no in the dog world. Do you ever see two dogs walk hand in hand at all times? No. Its just another hurtle for you to get him to be OK with himself even if you are there. That's great that you worked through his separation anxiety.. That just prooves that separation anxiety is a learned behavior.

Can he eat his food by himself? Or do you have to be in the same room in order for him to eat his dinner/breakfast? Can he chew a bone, play with a toy, nap without you there while your home? If no, then yes, he is still suffering from Separation Anxiety. Its not as severe, but its still there.

Can you sit on the ground with him while he is laying down? Have you been teaching him while standing? Kneeling? Sitting down? You might want to try teaching the command while sitting on the side of him. Don't hover over him. Hes a little dog, that's very intimidating.

What type of treats do you use? That actually does make a huge difference! Maybe for the down command you should use something that is ultra special such as a freeze dried liver treat.. Lamb treat... Let him sniff it.. Give him a TINY taste of it... Have him sit first.. Bring his nose down to the ground.. Let him lick and slobber on your hand with the treat tighly in your hand.. almost like a fist. If you have to.. Push down lightly behind his shoulder blades. There is a pressure point behind their shoulder blades so be careful.. Don't pinch him or push down hard to where he wants to swing his head around.. But just enough pressure where he'll go down easily. He'll be completely distracted with the treat at this point. Say "down" once or twice.. Never repeat.. If you continue to say "down" and he isn't going down, then the command lost all meaning.

Once his elbow touch the ground.. then praise him. Release him and give him a small bit of the treat. Try it again. This time.. when his elbows hit the ground.. open your hand up a little bit more so he can really get a taste of that treat.. and then release him. And that's it for that lesson.

In about an hour.. maybe two.. Try it again. Once his elbows hit the ground, let him lick and nibble on that treat.. Pet him.. Talk to him. Let him know he's a good boy. If you need to, hold him down for a few seconds if he is going to pop right back up. Never restrain to the point of him panicking. If he starts to really fight to get up, let him up and end the lesson on that note and try in 15 minutes.

You never want to extend a lesson for more then 15 minutes. Especially when it's a command that your pup doesn't feel comfortable with. Ask for baby steps. When you get baby steps REWARD REWARD REWARD! Once the baby steps are down (it should only take a day or so), then move on.

When he is on the ground and comfortable and now working on length of down/stay... Cup your hand on the ground with the treat on the floor and your hand over it. Let him sniff, lick and try and get at that treat.. Once he has stayed for 5 seconds.. Open your hand and release the treat and praise him with your voice. The floor gave him a treat.. Good things come from the floor.

But just remember.. when his elbows hit the floor.. that is a down. Priase for that. Once his elbows hit the floor, say the command and give the treat.

I hope I explained that good enough for you. This command is a lot easier to show then to type out lol. But little dogs are tough to get to go down and stay down. The down command is a scary position to be in.. Already being a little guy and laying on the floor is a lot to ask! But it can be done! Just lots of patience and small steps at a time. I bet in 2 weeks he will be down for 45 seconds (which is a long time!)

When I feed him, I walk away and do my own thing. Same with toys and bones and whatnot. It doesn't affect him at all. It's really the only thing that will keep him in a room, if he is pre-occupied by eating or chewing on something.
I am teaching him while sitting on the ground, and yes I can sit, stand, kneel, hover over, do pretty much anything with him laying down.

He's a picky dog, so treat wise I'm using freeze dried liver, which he goes absolutely bonkers for usually.
The ideas all seem good, but I've tried these things and he doesn't seem to get it. I let him take a bit of the treat, a tiiiny bit.. then move it down. His eyes follow, sometimes his head does, but he can reach his nose to the ground without laying down. I drag the treat along the ground in hopes he will go on his belly to follow it, he doesn't. He watches it go, then shimmies forward when it's too far away.
The pressing on him as mentioned earlier, he tends to bring his back end up instead.

I'll keep trying, but what you have explained is pretty much what I've been doing. And I work on him for 10 minutes max at a time, probably more or less because I get fed up with no movement forward at all. His elbow hit the ground once and he got a tooonneee of praise and was very excited about it, but then he never did it again.

We'll see how this all goes..

Have you done a forced down? Holding him down by putting your thumb between him and his colar and holding him down that way? They fuss something aweful for the first couple of times.. but your point is made and retained. When he pops his butt up, just push it back down and say "down" Once he stops struggling, treat him and release him.

Ive had to do that with almost all the little dogs Ive trained. Its almost like you have to burst their personal bubble. One dog I trained, a Yorkipoo.. wouldn't go down even for a prime rib! She was so stubborn. Nothing worked. By the end of the traning classes.. she kind of went down on command.

Some little dogs just don't go down. Its too scary for them or they don't want to show submission to you. So it could very well be a dominance thing with your dog if you've exhausted all methods of teaching down.

Sorry I wasn't any help :( lol I'll do little bit of research though and maybe I can find something for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky098

have you done a forced down? Holding him down by putting your thumb inbetween him and his colar and holding him down that way? They fuss something aweful for the first couple of times.. but your point is made and retained. When he pops his butt up, just push it back down and say "down" Once he stops struggling, treat him and release him.

Ive had to do that with almost all the little dogs Ive trained. Its almost like you have to burst their personal bubble. One dog I trained, a Yorkipoo.. wouldnt go down even for a prime rib! She was so stubborn. Nothing worked. By the end of the traning classes.. she kind of went down on command.

Some little dogs just dont go down. Its too scary for them or they dont want to show submission to you. So it could very well be a dominance thing with your dog if youve exhausted all methods of teaching down.

Sorry I wasnt any help :( lol I'll do little bit of research though and maybe I can find something for you

Haha let me know. The last round I did I was doing a forced down cause I was sick of seeing his little butt pop up. I'm going to keep trying and hope he gets it, but so far the furthest I've gotten is just him not giving me as much resistance when I do push him down.