Entire story merged

I meet the girl of my dreams at about this time last year and we end up going out for six bliss filled months. We take it slow and cautious, waiting to have sex, waiting to pop the love word for several months, but when we do commit it's something sudden, simultaneous and totally amazing. For the last three of those six months she's with me she basically lives in my house and we even manage to go on a dream vacation to New York City together (despite a limited college budget), no sex the whole damn time, just her and I being with one another and being happy.

I've emphasized the slowness on becoming sexual in our relationship, but when we did go all the way there is no doubt in my mind that it was the best either one of us has ever experienced on that front. It was special and spectacular.

It comes to the end of these six months and she's going off to study in Hong Kong for a year while I stay here in the States all by my lonesome. Before she goes, she tells me she wants to work it out, to make things last between the two of us despite the distance. She tells me I'm her other half and that she'll love me forever - I feel the same way.

Two months later, as we're on the phone, she says that even though I can work it out to be around after I graduate to be near for her final year she doesn't want me there, so she can focus more on her schooling. She also says that after she graduates she wants to go abroad to Germany for a year to live the life out there and despite the fact that monetarily speaking it will be difficult for me to join her for more than weeks at a time (she's from a higher class than myself in terms of wealth). I say I need to think about things.

I do and decide that I can wait through anything for her. She has thought otherwise and dumps me over the phone. We start promising to meet each other at the end of it all and reignite things, but that wears and she starts to dodge contact. I try to talk to her once a week, send one or two emails a week, but she begins to find reasons not to respond. I get angry and call her on it and she says that she needs space.

Months pass, we try to be friends despite my negative feelings over being dumped, and she says she'll call me on my birthday. I mention that I work early that day but she forgets and calls early anyway and we end up rescheduling the talk for later. I mishear the day and end up getting unbelievably drunk the night she calls (a night sooner than I expected) and end up chewing her out over the phone, calling her dishonest and shallow. I remember none of this conversation for being so drunk, so it's her word I'm taking on this stuff. She reveals she's seeing another guy during this talk (the one thing I do remember) but I still write and apologize the next day.

She writes back saying she never wants to speak to me again. Despite this, we chat off and on over the internet through course of a few months, but I sense her reservations and write a letter saying that while I don't understand why she did what she did, I still want to be friends and will not ask her back (something she said was a breaking point during the time we were attempting to be friends before, something that bothered her greatly) despite my feelings. She ignores me and has done so for a month since, ignoring one additional email and another message wishing her a merry Christmas.

I still love her. I still feel that the two of us were as perfect as a couple can be. What am I supposed to make of her actions? I can't help but feel that if we were once again face to face things would be fabulous. But I can't convince myself to sit on my butt and hope for the best to come my way - it seems foolish not to get back into the mix and move on. Yet I worry for her desperately and wish her back. Day by day it gets easier to live without her, but all the same I know we'd still be good together. What should I do? Respond in kind and pretend she doesn't exist? Persist in what I think would be best for both of us?

Sorry for writing so long, but it's something I needed to flesh out completely. Thanks for anyone who read all this garbage and bothers to respond - I greatly appreciate it.

Move on and get a life you enjoy without her.

Part 1 of 2

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Originally Posted by LBP

I meet the girl of my dreams at about this time last year and we end up going out for six bliss filled months.

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Key words…”Your dreams” not hers.

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Originally Posted by LBP

We take it slow and cautious, waiting to have sex, waiting to pop the love word for several months, but when we do commit it's something sudden, simultaneous and totally amazing.

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Was this the first time a girl told you she loved you? The reason I ask is because that is how it feels the first time you hear it. Since then I’ve never described it that way. That being said maybe you just like the idea of being in love as opposed to being in love with her.

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Originally Posted by LBP

For the last three of those six months she's with me she basically lives in my house and we even manage to go on a dream vacation to New York City together (despite a limited college budget), no sex the whole damn time, just her and I being with one another and being happy.

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Did you pay for that vacation?

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Originally Posted by LBP

I've emphasized the slowness on becoming sexual in our relationship, but when we did go all the way there is no doubt in my mind that it was the best either one of us has ever experienced on that front. It was special and spectacular.

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It was the best you experienced. Don’t speak for her.

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Originally Posted by LBP

It comes to the end of these six months and she's going off to study in Hong Kong for a year while I stay here in the States all by my lonesome.

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All by your lonesome? Focus on something else. Loneliness is a feeling. Change that feeling.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Before she goes, she tells me she wants to work it out, to make things last between the two of us despite the distance.

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Oh a back up plan and perhaps someone that will send her gifts. At the very least a nice, cordial good bye.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She tells me I'm her other half and that she'll love me forever - I feel the same way.

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Am I too understand this is after 6 months?

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Originally Posted by LBP

Two months later, as we're on the phone, she says that even though I can work it out to be around after I graduate to be near for her final year she doesn't want me there, so she can focus more on her schooling.

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Yep. Don’t blame her. If I had the chance to study in Hong Kong I wouldn’t want any distractions either. Plus it’s hard to date other people if your there.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She also says that after she graduates she wants to go abroad to Germany for a year to live the life out there and despite the fact that monetarily speaking it will be difficult for me to join her for more than weeks at a time (she's from a higher class than myself in terms of wealth). I say I need to think about things. I do and decide that I can wait through anything for her.

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Wow. You did not get the message. She was telling you that in an attempt to get rid of you by putting the blame on you. It was a convenient way for her to lose you and still save face for herself.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She has thought otherwise and dumps me over the phone.

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Well, yeah. Like I said she was hoping you’d see that you can’t afford her, and you happen to live on the other side of the planet, so she gave you the nice send off. Your so far gone you still didn’t see it. Since you didn’t an old fashioned dumping had to take place.

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Originally Posted by LBP

We start out promising to meet each other at the end of it all and reignite things, but that wears and she starts to dodge contact.

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You mean she dodges a guy on the other side of the planet that can’t get over her. In a sense you are stalking her with attention. You are needy. You are desperate. Her saving grace seems to be the ocean at this point.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I try to talk to her once a week, send one or two emails a week, but she begins to find reasons not to respond.

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She doesn’t have too. She doesn’t owe you anything. She’s tried to be cordial and you keep pushing it. Why should she respond?

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Originally Posted by LBP

I get angry and call her on it and she says that she needs space.

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Obviously! Stop and think about that. You had a woman on the OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET tell you she needs space. Isn’t that a wake up call? If you were in the same city I fear that you would stalk this woman.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Months pass, we try to be friends despite my negative feelings over being dumped, and she says she'll call me on my birthday. I mention that I work early that day but she forgets and calls early anyway and we end up rescheduling the talk for later.

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She didn’t forget. She was hoping that you wouldn’t answer. Come on. For the love of God don’t you see every hint she’s throwing at you?

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Originally Posted by LBP

I mishear the day and end up getting unbelievably drunk the night she calls (a night sooner than I expected)

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Again, another attempt to call you when she though you’d be busy.

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Originally Posted by LBP

and end up chewing her out over the phone, calling her dishonest and shallow. I remember none of this conversation for being so drunk, so it's her word I'm taking on this stuff.

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So she tells you this so that once again she has an out to not speak with you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She reveals she's seeing another guy during this talk (the one thing I do remember) but I still write and apologize the next day.

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As she has been doing for some time.

Part 2 of 2, I went over the 10000 word limit.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She writes back saying she never wants to speak to me again. despite this, we chat off and on over the internet through course of a few months, but I sense her reservations and write a letter saying that while I don't understand why she did what she did,

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Really, well I came up with several reasons. Lets see they are;
1. Because she lives on the other side of the planet.
2 She has goals that are not in line with your own.
3. Your needy.
4. Your pushy.
5 You don't give her time to herself.
6. Your hung up on a 6 month relationship.
7. You have stalker like qualities.
8. You put her on a pedestal.
9. She can have you any time she wants you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I still want to be friends and will not ask her back (something she said was a breaking point during the time we were attempting to be friends before, something that bothered her greatly) despite my feelings.

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Why? What do you get from this friendship? She isn't interested. She tried to be friendly and you pushed too hard.

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Originally Posted by LBP

She ignores me and has done so for a month since, ignoring one additional email and another message wishing her a merry Christmas.

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I don't blame her. I would too. Your stalking her through the phone, email, text, mail, I'm almost surprised you haven't gotten on a plane and flew to Hong Kong. If it wasn't for the lack of a passport, I bet you would have though.

How do you not get this. SHE'S NOT INTERESTED! It's over. It's been over for awhile. Her best friend right now the Pacific ocean. If not I'd swear you'd be at her place waiting for her every day.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I still love her.

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She doesn't love you. In fact she doesn't even like you. Why would she? You've done everything to chase her away.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I still feel that the two of us were as perfect as a couple can be.

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Are you out of you mind? You went out for 6 months. She's seeing someone else. She's given you every chance to back off. She's not interested. It was just a 6 month fling. Feelings are high for the beginning. She moved and then she moved on. There are 3 billion women in the world. The one you obsess with is on the other side of the world. You've got 3 billion other women to get to know. One of them is sure to like you at first. But if you don't change you behaviors you'll drive them away. Just like this one.

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Originally Posted by LBP

What am I supposed to make of her actions?

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Dude, re-read your post as though I wrote it. What would you tell me? I seriously can't understand how you've missed every single hint and flat out words that she's told you. She's done. She's not interested.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I can't help but feel that if we were once again face to face things would be fabulous.

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What are you basing that on?

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Originally Posted by LBP

But I can't convince myself to sit on my butt and hope for the best to come my way - it seems foolish not to get back into the mix and move on.

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I agree. Move on. But before you do work on your desperation and neediness. Those repel women.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Yet I worry for her desperately and wish her back.

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Why? She doesn't worry for you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Day by day it gets easier to live without her, but all the same I know we'd still be good together.

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No. No you wouldn't. She can't be free to be herself and you can't but help latch onto her.

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Originally Posted by LBP

What should I do?

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Quit all contact now. No more Christmas, not New year's, no nothing. If you want a woman than starting acting like a man and quit this nonsense. A woman wants a strong, independent, and focused man. You offer none of those at this time. You can. You've got it in you. You've just got to develop it. When you do then you should start dating again.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Respond in kind and pretend she doesn't exist?

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She doesn't. She's in China. Guess what there are a billion people in China. She's going to meet someone new.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Persist in what I think would be best for both of us?

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What you think is the best is not. She knows it. I know it. Hopefully you stop all contact, and some day you too will know it.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Sorry for writing so long, but it's something I needed to flesh out completely.

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Long ones are my specialty. Writing it all out can really help. Don't apologize for that. Hopefully by writing it out you were able to see some of the things that's going on here. If not, reread your original post and take yourself out of it. Put me in there. What would you say to me.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Thanks for anyone who read all this garbage and bothers to respond - I greatly appreciate it.

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Look man, your emotional. I'm an emotional person too so I understand that sometimes this is harder for us being males we tend to act like female in that regard. But you've got to understand this relationship you have is not healthy. I'm not talking about her and you, but the relationship you have with yourself. It sound's like this was your first attempt at love, which if is the case the first break ups are hard to figure out. But that being said, I'm worried for you future when a break up occurs and she lives in the same city. How are you going to react then? You really got to find out why your so dependent on someone and then change that behavior. You're a smart guy so you can do it but the first step is to walk away from this and focus on college. In a few months when the wears off you can look back and figure out where you went wrong.

Well,

My only advice is for you to re-read everything Chuff has wrote which in my opinion is absolutely spot on!

Nice one for writing that Chuff..

Excellent analysis again chuff, LMAO, when you went over the limit. I will never understand why these guys can't see the handwriting on the wall, but If it's the first time I guess that's a hard thing to see coming.

Your words are odd because I've always considered myself a lone wolf and kind of prided myself on giving her space, part of the reason we worked so well together. I'm not really a pack it in kind of guy - I get out and enjoy life. I have lots of friends and such, etc etc. I mean I got straight As, dated other girls, hit the town on a regular basis, wrote a book and got two new jobs this past quarter... I'm a good looking, articulate guy and getting women has never been an issue for me. But this one was special. It's not like I'm sitting around in Mopetown all day. This girl was my best friend and I wanted to save that for the future.

I'm trying to be her friend because I want to move on rationally. I don't want her back because I know I can't trust her anymore. The reason I wanted to make room for life in the future with her was because we had often talked about this before she left. I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends. Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

I have a passport, too... And just recently saved enough money for a trip to Hong Kong... Instead, I spent it on a trip to London to visit another friend...

But, you guys are the experts. All contact has basically been cut all ready, so there it goes... I mean, we haven't spoke on the phone in three months (though I have once or twice tried to convince her to arrange a time when we could, so that I can show her that there's no hard feelings and I just want to be buddies like we used to be)... But her friends are my friends, so this will be an issue in the future.

Oh, yes, it seems I didn't make it clear - when I said I could be around for her last year, that's one that's going to be in the states and not in Hong Kong. That's just this year.

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I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends. Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

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By your own words you should focus on you and leave her alone. I think we all can agree on that.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Your words are odd because I've always considered myself a lone wolf and kind of prided myself on giving her space, part of the reason we worked so well together. I'm not really a pack it in kind of guy - I get out and enjoy life. I have lots of friends and such, etc etc. I mean I got straight As, dated other girls, hit the town on a regular basis, wrote a book and got two new jobs this past quarter... I'm a good looking, articulate guy and getting women has never been an issue for me. But this one was special. It's not like I'm sitting around in Mopetown all day. This girl was my best friend and I wanted to save that for the future.

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That's all well and good. I'm sure you are all of those things that you describe. Look O.J. Simpson was good looking, rich, famous, and could have his pick from a large pick of women. But he got stuck up on one. By his own administion he stalk his ex wife. By his own admistion he used to park his car outside her house and wait for her. By his own adminstion he used to spy into her windows. Those are the things he ADMITTED too. Let's be real, despite the fact he says he didn't kill her I think we pretty much know otherwise. That is where those behaviors lead too ultimately if you can't stop them or control them. OJ Simpson didn't have to fight for any woman's attention. I'm using this extreme example to show you that anyone can get hooked up or caught up in this emotional rollar coaster. If it can happen to someone rich, famous, good looking, and with a ample supply of women then it can happen to anyone.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I'm trying to be her friend because I want to move on rationally.

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Rationally let her go would be the thing to do. She' gone. You yourself said you haven't talked for 3 months. It was a 6 month relationship. You weren't married. You didn't have a lot of time invested in this. It's over. I realize you thought she was different but she's also gone.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I don't want her back because I know I can't trust her anymore. The reason I wanted to make room for life in the future with her was because we had often talked about this before she left. I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends.

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You are. This is the best thing for you though. You can't leave her alone. You got to move on.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

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Reread your original post. Pretend that's me talking and tell me you don't get stalker from that. I'm going to repeat this for you... A WOMAN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET EARTH TOLD YOU SHE NEEDS SPACE. That's a wake up call.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I have a passport, too... And just recently saved enough money for a trip to Hong Kong... Instead, I spent it on a trip to London to visit another friend...

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I know you did. I knew when I wrote that, that you were planning to fly and see her. Everything you wrote lead to that. I'm guessing she somehow stopped you from coming or you started to realize that if you went she was going to avoid you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

But, you guys are the experts. All contact has basically been cut all ready, so there it goes... I mean, we haven't spoke on the phone in three months (though I have once or twice tried to convince her to arrange a time when we could, so that I can show her that there's no hard feelings and I just want to be buddies like we used to be)...

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LBP that is stalking behavior. You, the man, should never have to convince her, the woman, that there are no hard feelings. You show it by your actions. Your actions should not be bothering her about a 6 month relationship. If none of this had taken place and you dropped her an email around this time of year saying Merry Christmas that would be one thing. But it's too late now.

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Originally Posted by LBP

But her friends are my friends, so this will be an issue in the future.

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It will be an issue because you want it to be. It will be an issue because you can't let it go. I've worked with ex's and you know I don't talk to them at work. I don't bring that to work. Sometimes you might say hello but other than that it's over. I don't do that to be mean, I don't do that out of spite, I do it for my own emotional health.

You don't bring that to your friends. I'm telling you if you do you'll drive them away too. If they bring her up, just say, "Good for her, I'm happy for her" and change the subject.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Oh, yes, it seems I didn't make it clear - when I said I could be around for her last year, that's one that's gonna be in the states and not in Hong Kong. That's just this year.

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I hate to say this but your wasting your time. You should seek some professional help, before you make a lot of trouble for yourself.

I suppose I can only agree with you... I mean, she told me she needed her space after we'd been talking for basically an hour a week which while I may be crazy for viewing things as such, strikes me as not so meriting so extreme a response. It makes me think that it's more about her than about me. I was ultimately asking for very little.

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that I don't understand how from the simple fact that romantically it appears things are over that I should then act as though she's not alive anymore. I mean, I still care about her. I don't need to have sex with her for that to be the case. We weren't just lovers. It's hard to get myself to believe that you abandon a friend simply because we can't be intimate anymore. Hell, I'm not going to see her for -years-. I'm not an idiot. Of course I'll meet and be with and fall in love with other women - it's an inevitability. For her, also. In fact, the notion that she is with other men is the least concerning out of all of this - I want her to be happy in whatever capacity she can be!

I guess the question I should have asked is: is it better to let her be happy by going along with her apparent decision to pretend I don't exist or follow my own thoughts and keep extending my hand as a friend (every few months, as I've been doing), for a simple shake?

As for the trip... She never knew that I'd got the money together. In fact, I was planning on making a joke that I'd spent it on flying to Hong Kong just to poke fun at the fact that she HAS been treating me like a stalker. I'd never go over there when I'm not wanted - I mean, where would I stay, for goodness sake? I don't have the financial wherewithal for that kind of stalking ;) ! A joke, just a joke!

Ya know, maybe I haven't been making myself clear in the SLIGHTEST. That whole planning to be together thing happened MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO. I'm moving out of California, the state she's going to be in, basically the month that she gets back. I have no plans to see her. I have no plans to go to Germany. In fact, I plan to be in Asia (when she's out of it) when she makes that move and then live in Europe when she goes back to the states. I WILL NOT BE SEEING THIS WOMAN FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND I'M OKAY WITH IT.

Should I have just asked whether you should make the effort to try and be friends with an ex, despite her resistance? Sorry for confusing things with unnecessary (and ultimately limited) backstory.

Just go back and reread this thread and how crazy you sound about a relationship that is over. You can rationalize all you want, but unless you cut contact to heal and get yourself to where you can look at things objectively then sir you will be stuck with these unhealthy thoughts and actions for some time to come. All I ask is YOU give yourself a chance to see reality and move from the fantasy world your stuck in.

Well... okay, then... I guess no to being friends is what you're saying?

Not to put to fine a point on it, but how could you possibly divine that I could be sitting outside a given person's window all day and all night from, what... eight or nine paragraphs worth of commentary on a subject toward which you have no closenesss? I'm not a madman and I've got a pretty good idea of what stalking is - I've seen it before and in fact helped friends move themsevles past that particular experience. I know the definition and to be accused of something I'd never do is a little disconcerting but is, I suppose, in its way assertive. Isn't what's been done here the through and through definition of pop psychology? I notice also that chuff has referred to himself in the third person twice in this thread alone. Should I decide that he's a hopeless narcisist based simply on that? I'm not saying that this is the case, because I do appreciate what advice he's given me, but pointing out the somewhat ridiculous nature of what's been said here so far.

I'm looking for general advice, not deep personal analysis. I mean, seriously, how could someone determine that I'm in need of 'professional help' based upon nothing more than a couple of pleas and what at best amounts to a few poorly worded statements and responses? What do you guys know, on a person to person basis, of what I've been through and what the me and my ex have experienced? Heck, I haven't even responded to half of your personal points on the simple basis that they've been too personal.

I debated on whether to answer this. I even saw it before you edited and just came back and re-read it before I started this. I'll be honest with you. Part of me says to ignore you now because I think your so far gone you don't “get it.” Part of me says to tear you a new one since you are now not happy with the advice you got and instead of stopping and thinking that maybe, just maybe we can see what's going on here and you can't, you now must shift he blame back to us. Because of course it's not your fault. It's not your fault for a lot of things I'd gather. And you'll be damned if someone will disrespect you, even if it's meant to help you out. That's a stalker trait too, interestingly enough.

But I'm going to attempt to help you because I want you to change. Not for me. Not for your ex. Not for any future women you meet but I want you to change and be happy with yourself. I want you to obsess over something positive, like a lifetime goal, not a woman. So let's take it step by step……..

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Originally Posted by LBP

Not to put to fine a point on it, but how could you possibly divine that I could be sitting outside a given person's window all day and all night from, what... eight or nine paragraphs worth of commentary on a subject toward which you have no closenesss?

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I said that is how someone like OJ Simpson started and look at the path it took him on in life. I mentioned that because you told me you were good looking, never had a problem with women. My point wasn't that you had to be ugly, poor, or stupid to be that way. As I said before OJ Simpson could and did have many beautiful women. But for whatever reason he got so fixated on one that he was stalking her. He even admits to that. My point was this unhealthy behavior starts here but it leads you on road down somewhere else. I'm not calling you a double murderer or even anything remotely close. I'm saying to you that if OJ (or anyone, I only use him because we all know who he is) had realized early on that this behavior was not good for him and worked on changing it, perhaps he'd still have a career, and his kids would still have a mother.

As for you pointing out I have no closeness to the situation I will answer that with this. Not having closeness to the situation is what helps me see through all the emotional stuff your going through. When you study how human beings behave it gives you great incite into how they behave with one another. For example when a woman tells a guy she needs space she really is saying in the nicest way she can that she's not interested anymore. In fact if you really start analysising the behavior between men and women that statement, “I need space” is usually given by a woman when she has lost interest with a man because of his actions, or his behavior has changed from when she first met him. Generally when he becomes, “the nice guy” or “the abuser” she puts up with it for a little bit then brings it out. “I need space” is the easiest way of dumping someone without ending it all the way. It gives the guy a false hope. Kind of like you have. When she lives on the other side of the planet and you talk to her once a week and she says “I need space,” and I don't have to know either of you but you are being told to get out of her life. In this role she has continued to attempt to be on your good side for fear of upsetting you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I'm not a madman and I've got a pretty good idea of what stalking is - I've seen it before and in fact helped friends move themsevles past that particular experience. I know the definition and to be accused of something I'd never do is a little disconcerting but is, I suppose, in its way assertive.

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I'll answer that with this…..

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Originally Posted by LBP

As for the trip... She never knew that I'd got the money together. In fact, I was planning on making a joke that I'd spent it on flying to Hong Kong just to poke fun at the fact that she HAS been treating me like a stalker.

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Originally Posted by LBP

Isn't what's been done here the through and through definition of pop psycology?

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Well to be honest I don't know the definition of pop psychology. Here's what I am willing to tell you about me. Here's what I do know. Your upset about this whole thing. Now your upset with us, and I think in particular me. I give it to you blunt, brother. And let me explain that to you. I'm not a prick or trying to demean you. I think your probably a great and caring guy but the problem people have when they come here is that they try what they see on TV and in the movies. That doesn't work. Then they ask there friends for advice. Friends, trying to do the right thing for you, their friend usually tell you what you want to hear, but not what is the truth. I'm going to say that again, FRIENDS TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. Your friends only reinforce your behavior because they think they are being good friends by doing so.

People come here and post all kinds of things and they are so emotionally wrapped up in what's going on I have found the best way is to slap upside there face with reality. Some get it. Some get it right away. Some get it when several posters do the same thing. Unfortunately, there are some that want us to hold there hand and tell them everything's going to be all right. I'm may say many things but I'm not going to lie to you.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I notice also that chuff has refered to himself in the third person twice in this thread alone. Should I decide that he's a hopeless narcisist based simply on that?

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I was attempting to be funny by agreeing with there post that my post was good advice. I sometimes try to bring some humor to the board via my posts. While we could probably agree that it might not have been funny I hope Geoff and Tal got it but since your new I apologize since it probably did come off a little arrogant. No disrespect was meant towards you or your situation.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I'm not saying that this is the case, but pointing out the somewhat ridiculous nature of what's been said here so far.

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That being said, I don't think anything I've said related to you or your situation has been ridicules. Sounds to me like you weren't ready accept the reality so now your deflecting it back to me.

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Originally Posted by LBP

I'm looking for general advice, not deep personal analysis. I mean, seriously, how could someone determine that I'm in need of 'professional help' based upon nothing more than a couple of pleas and what at best amounts to a few poorly worded statements and responses?

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Seriously, have your reread what you wrote. Have you put me in place of you? Do that. Tell me what you really think I should do if I wrote that. Professional counseling isn't a insult. Don't take it that way. It's an attempt to correct or learn about behaviors that are hurting you. Your stuck on a woman who you had a 6 month fling (and that's all it was, it wasn't a relationship), who lives in another country, on the other side of the earth, who doesn't like talking to you for even an hour a week, who you have not spoke to in 3 months. If you can't see that and the reality then I don't know how to get you to see it. Perhaps a therapist could though. It's not demeaning to you. I know you don't think so but I truly want to see you get back on your feet.

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Originally Posted by LBP

What do you guys know, on a person to person basis, of what I've been through and what the me and my ex have experienced?

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Just what you've told us. What would your ex, who doesn't want to talk to you and says she needs space from China tell me? Something different?

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Originally Posted by LBP

Hell, I haven't even responded to half of your personal questions on the simple basis that they've been too personal.

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Or more likely your afraid to really face the truth.

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Originally Posted by chuff

In fact if you really start analysising the behavior between men and women that statement, “I need space” is usually given by a woman when she has lost interest with a man because of his actions, or his behavior has changed from when she first met him. Generally when he becomes, “the nice guy” or “the abuser” she puts up with it for a little bit then brings it out. “I need space” is the easiest way of dumping someone without ending it all the way. It gives the guy a false hope. Kind of like you have. When she lives on the other side of the planet and you talk to her once a week and she says “I need space,” and I don't have to know either of you but you are being told to get out of her life. In this role she has continued to attempt to be on your good side for fear of upsetting you.

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This is the best of what I've heard so far... I'm okay with disrespect! Respect is overrated. I've got a thick skin! I'm willing to accept blame! You were right when you said that this is the first time someone has told me they love me. I won't deny it. I also accept that I'm needy and was needy with her in particular - this is something I've admitted to her, in fact, in trying to make amends.

I'm not upset with any of you. I wish I could convey the tone of my voice through words, but it's just not possible. I appreciate anything and everything I've heard so far. In speaking to friends, I routinely point out to them that I was likely the during this whole thing and to not assume that I'm the good guy or that the best thing is to treat me like the abused party. One thing I've learned is that, no matter what (as you've just said), your friends will tell you that you've done the right thing and that you're a good person. This is tiresome advice - I'm glad to get a change from that in this place.

That said, to be told that I could potentially stalk someone is just nuts. I mean... Really? That's so the opposite of who I am that I just don't know how to react. I've got rid of all her old stuff she left me, including pictures and what have you. I've lost the letter she left me when she flew out (one talking about how I changed her life, etc etc) and deleted all the sexy pictures she sent me after she'd been in HK for a month. I understand what you're saying about the whole fling thing and you're likely correct. I probably put a whole lot more into this than she did (though most of the things I mentioned in my original post were in fact direct quotes from her to me, about 'love of my life' and 'best sex ever' etc - it's quite possible she was lying when she said these things, but she did say them!).

I'll say this, though - my ex is a person who habitually gets close to and then abandons others because she believes that her independence (and being able to travel the world, something most people cannot generally do, especially at our age) is the 100% most important thing in her life. She's had three long distance relationships with men and each of those three times she's ended up dumping them in less than three months, myself being the latest. She has had over 30 boy friends over the years and has dumped them all - it was such that when she started going out with me her dad, jokingly, told her 'oh, great, when you going to get around to dumping him?' this is why I worry for her. She has no frienship with any of the people she's parted from in her short life, virtually no friends from high school, very few people she keeps in contact from in her childhood. I, on the other hand, am resolute in staying in touch with people I've met over the years, though high school, elementary school and everything. This next week, as a matter of fact, I'm going off to visit with a friend I haven't seen in over five years and just yesterday visited a friend I haven't seen in almost two years.

Despite everything, I'm okay with being one of the long list of men she's been with and moved on from. She was a good friend and I want her to remain so. You all appear to think that I sit around with my head in my hands plotting how I'm going to get back into her heart. I'm not blind - it's obvious I won't! I'm not even going to be here when she gets back, though it's well within my power to do so!

Maybe I'm crazy and things are flying over my head left and right. Heck knows I'm not a perfect person. But my Dad, a guy who I do not generally respect, is a remarkable man in that every single ex girlfriend he has ever had he has ended up becoming a close and dear friend with (despite never getting involved with them romantically after the break up). I would like to emulate this trait, unusual (and apparently freakish) though it maybe. I suppose that restricts what I can accept from you guys (good advice though it may generally be), in that I'm more interested in doing what I can to perpetuate this possibility than anything else.

What it boils down to is what you've said above, chuffster. She's telling me to get out of her life. I just got to accept that this is the best way to make her happy, confusing (notice what I mentioned in the title) as that is to me, since supposedly making her happy is what I've been interested in from the start, in a relationship sense. I won't pretend she doesn't exist because that seems ridiculous, but she won't be hearing from me any time soon and I will certainly be looking to move to my next step romantically as soon as the next opportunity presents itself. This has always been the case.

LBP, if what you truly are seeking from this girl is friendship, there is nothing wrong with that. It is hard to lose someone we were once close to and care for. The problem here is that a friendship, like a relationship, must be mutual and nurtured by both parties to grow. She doesn't seem to want the friendship for some reason, and yes, of course that hurts you. It would hurt anyone. And yes, your dad's friendships with all of his exes is very unusual. Many exes simply cannot remain friends for a variety of reasons. It is an individual preference. Nothing wrong with doing it either way.

My advice to you at this point is to simply remain open to this girl. If I were you and the situation was worrying me so much, I would write a final simple email stating something like, "I wanted to write and wish you a Merry Christmas. I hope all is well with you. I know that we are far apart and don't get to see one another anymore, but I still hope we can stay in touch. I care for you and would love to remain friends. Feel free to contact me anytime. All the best."

Then just let it go. That's all you can do. Then move on with your life, focus on being happy, and leave the ball in her court. Back off, give her this space, and let her miss you (as a friend, not as a ploy to get her back romantically). If she comes around and contacts you, great. If not, there's your answer. She simply can't maintain a friendship for some reason, and you have to respect her wishes. You can take comfort in the fact that you were open to it, and did let her know you wanted to remain friends, but that you won't force that on anyone. You can tell yourself, "Hey, at least I tried, but she wasn't open to it. I will respect her boundaries now and let her go."

Are you sure that you don't want this friendship as a means to get her back though? Are you OK with being friends and hearing details about the new men she dates? Can you discuss this type of thing with her without jealousy, anger, hurt, and disappointment? Truly think about all of this before you try to do the friends thing. If the friendship you seek keeps you from moving on, the price may be too high.

No, of course you don't need to act as if she doesn't exist, but friendships with exes can be a difficult thing and isn't possible in all cases. Don't take it so personally. At this point, all you can do is be open if she contacts you, but don't wait around. Date others and move on.

LBP, I think chuff is right on! It is time to let go.