Hi,
I'm renovating my basement and want to replace the existing water main valve that is leaking. The house is a 1922 row house so the incoming water service pipe (pipe from the street to my house) is a lead pipe with male threads. The current leaky main valve is an iron valve that connects to cast iron water pipe or 3/4" diameter (I think that's the I.D. although I haven't taken it apart yet).
I plan to leave the lead pipe in place but want to replace the iron valve and iron piping that extends to the rest of the plumbing in my house. I've seen couplings that are threaded female brass on one end and straight copper tubing on the other. I'm thinking of threading the brass coupling end to the lead pipe and then soldering a short piece of copper tubing between the coupling and a brass ball valve.

Will this arrangement work or is there a better way to do this?
Do I just use teflon tape or other joint compound to seal the lead pipe threads to the brass coupling?
Any dielectric issues with joining the lead pipe to the brass?
What type of ball valve do I use... does is need some kind of bleed valve to drain the water out of the main if I ever need to drain it?

If anyone has done this before, I could use your input. Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Chad

Last things first: The drain for a stop and waste ball valve goes on the "off" or feed side of the valve, not the supply side. It is to drain the house plumbing, not your connection to the street. A regular ball valve works just as well, but check the code that is in force in your locality as a stop and waste may be required by the code. If you use a regular valve and have to drain the plumbing, you just shut-off the water (and the water supply & gas/power to your water heater), open the lowest and highest fixtures, and wait until it stops draining. You'll really need to do this anyway, so I don't know that I see much benefit to installing a stop & waste. Don't forget, you'll need to have the utility turn off the water at the meter while you work on replacing the valve. I believe some plumbers can also do this, but I do not know for sure.

I have never worked with or experienced lead pipe, and my sincere advice, as an adamant DIY'er, is to have it replaced or call an experienced plumber to handle it. Lead is inherently a soft material and my feeling is that an 84 year-old lead supply pipe will probably break when you try to disconnect it. It also may well be severely corroded/in danger of failing, and it poses a health danger to your entire household, especially children. More details here: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...eases/lead/en/

I also believe that you could easily strip the male threads when placing the brass/bronze fitting onto the lead, and you will need to be extremely careful not to do so.

That said, are you sure it's lead pipe? I'm not doubting you, I just want to make sure. Lead pipe nicks easily with a knife, with iron or galvanized, you will just scratch off paint.

Also, you can just get a threaded ball valve and use that, then sweat on a male adapter onto the house end of the copper pipe, and install that into the house side of the valve. You can use either pipe joint compound (pipe dope) or teflon tape. For metal to metal fittings, I happen to prefer pipe dope, but it's personal preference really, unless regulated by your locality. Any difference in metals will cause some galvanic reaction, but I am unsure of how severe this is between lead and copper.

I applaud you for replacing the iron pipe in your house; it is probably past due because of corrosion that restricts the flow. I strongly suggest you investigate getting that lead main replaced. I mean, you're renovating your basement, and improving the rest of your supply piping. Do it right (and safe) and have that supply updated also. Your utility is probably required by the EPA to replace their portion of the main if it is also lead pipe, or they may have already replaced it with a more modern material.

Here's an article on WashingtonPost.com I found about the replacement of 23,000 lead pipes by the WASA (the D.C. Water and Sewer Authority): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Nov12.html . It gives some supporting references to the utility having to replace their portion of old lead supplies, and also gives an idea of what it costs in the DC area to have the owner's portion replaced by their contractors, in 2004.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seewhite1

Hi,
I'm renovating my basement and want to replace the existing water main valve that is leaking. The house is a 1922 row house so the incoming water service pipe (pipe from teh street to my house) is a lead pipe with male threads. The current leaky main valve is an iron valve that connects to cast iron water pipe or 3/4" diameter (I think that's the I.D. although I haven't taken it apart yet).
I plan to leave the lead pipe in place but want to replace the iron valve and iron piping that extends to the rest of the plumbing in my house. I've seen couplings that are threaded female brass on one end and straight copper tubing on the other. I'm thinking of threading the brass coupling end to the lead pipe and then soldering a short piece of copper tubing between the coupling and a brass ball valve.

Will this arrangment work or is there a better way to do this?
Do I just use teflon tape or other joint compound to seal the lead pipe threads to the brass coupling?
Any dielectric issues with joining the lead pipe to the brass?
What type of ball valve do I use...does is need some kind of bleed valve to drain the water out of the main if I ever need to drain it?

If anyone has done this before, I could use your input. Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Chad

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Thanks for the tips Rsimplicio.

I could attach a threaded ball valve directly to the threaded lead pipe service line but in doing so, I'm not sure where the valve shutoff handle will end up being positioned when the threads are tightened. The lead pipe is probably only 1/4" off the wall so I'm afraid that the shutoff handle might end up between the pipe and wall. This is why I was thinking about using a threaded brass coupling with copper tubing on the other end to connect to the ball valve.

I could probably bend the lead pipe away from the wall but I'm concerned that the 84 year old lead pipe with break if I do that.

Know of any good plumbing website that shows what a stop and waste ball valve looks like? When I go into Home Depot to look for this stuff, it's a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what is what.

It's definitely a lead pipe and should be replace due to the health issues that you mentioned. Both my home inspector and the city verified that it is a lead pipe. The cost is the main reason why I have resisted changing it out but realize that if I break the lead line while trying to replace it that I'm hurtin' for certain $$$.

I agree with Rsimplicio. I am appalled to hear there is still lead pipe in use. Surest way to sort out galvanized and lead is a magnet. Perhaps before tackling that old lead pipe, you should wait to hear from Speedball1.

I am a strong advocate of replacing leaky old valves with a ball valve. Unfortunately they are not the way it has always been done. So Home Depot and many other places still don't carry as big of selection of ball valves as the crappy old gate and globe valves. Look at some of the gate valves. Some of them will have a little knurled cap sticking off the side. That is your waste drain. Look for the same thing in a ball valve. Note, here you will find more people to give good answer to questions at Home Depot and better prices and selection at Lowe's.

Where is the old valve leaking, around the stem? If so, a couple turns of the nut might fix the problem. If reasonable force doesn't stop the leak, you can repack the stem. I think you can even do that without shutting the water off at the street as long as the valve is off. Removing the nut and old packing will let all he water in the house run out the stem. You can then wind new packing in and replace the nut. Turn the water back on and if it still leaks, tighten the nut up more. May even have to go through a second cycle of adding packing. Make sure the stem is clean and smooth.

Be very careful about shutting the water supply off to the hot water heater. Normally water cycles in and out the inlet as it expands and contracts with the temperature. With the inlet off, something must be open on the outlet side.

Chad, it's actually called a "ball & waste". Here's basically what you're looking for (from watts.com):
http://www.watts.com/prod_images/IT-6300.jpg

"the incoming water service pipe (pipe from teh street to my house) is a lead pipe with male threads."

Lead pipes do not have threads. There is either a brass adapter soldered on or, (as I suppect) you have a galvanized water service. To test for lead pipe take a pocket knife and see if you can cut a sliver off. Lead pipe's soft while galvanized's hard. If it is lead replace it at once.

I would install a stop and waste valve, (see image) on the service line just after entering the house so that the water system can be drained down if necessary. Or if there's room a lever type stop and waste ball valve such as rsimplicio has shown.

You have received very good advice from both rsimplicio and labman. Listen to them. Just thought I'[d toss in my two cents. Good luck, Tom