I was out of town for months. After I came back, I was told that odoriferous liquid leaked into bathroom of apartment unit downstair. Since no one was at my apartment, it could not be smell of pee, etc. Also they did not state how much water was leaking, but they claimed water damage to bathroom and hall way (which I tiled throughout). I had new bathroom and hallway rugs when I left, and they were still new without any sign of water leaking.
They claimed they called police and fire department due to emergency situation. They claimed the leak that apparently was caused by our toilet (before they entered), and fire department forced in "for the purpose of repairing".


What kind of toilet problem would cause - 1. odoriferous liquid leaking 2. enough to damage whole bathroom and hallway downstair 3. when no one has been using the toilet for 3 weeks?

Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks

Wax rings can leak,the water in the bowl can leak out then, but unlikely.

The seal from the base to the tank can leak,unlikely but it can happen.

The water supply line can and does often leak(if not maintained on a regular basis, say every few months or so,just turning the handle to the on and off positions would check it enough to see if it leaks), if any of the seals are bad there can be a leak problem.Much less the actual water supply line to the fill valve.A flexible line with (at best) a compression seal which if overtightened or not tightened enough, or has worked itself loose, can leak until turned off.

But those are all from clean water leaks.


The odoriferous liquid?

Have they shown any reason that this was anything other than clean water?Sewage perhaps?

You say you are in an apartment, is there no one else with a key to this unit besides you?An apartment manager?Property owner?So they had to break in?Something smells here and it isn't the liquid in question.

What is the extent of the damages, to the bathroom, downstairs hall?

I hope police can smell as you and I do. Previously water was falling from top floor to 1st floor all night (brown color- water pipe related), and I had brown water marks all over bathroom and hallway. They painted my unit for free, but the unit below me was not fortunate enough to get free painting . So she wanted to get her unit painted free.

I know something is very fish. But I want to find out first what can it be brown water dripping from my toilet to downstair (there are units above me) when no one was in my apartment for 3 weeks before the alleged incident. I checked toilet, and there seem nothing was changed - all toilet materials are all same stuff that I had before I left.

Does plumber must have report to show me? Thanks

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Originally Posted by ;

What kind of toilet problem would cause - 1. odoriferous liquid leaking 2. enough to damage whole bathroom and hallway downstair 3. when no one has been using the toilet for 3 weeks?

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Good question! KBC thinks it might be the wax seal on the toilet but someone to be flushing that toilet and you haven't been there to flush anything.
Soooo, if it's not coming from tour place let's look elsewhere. Is there a unit above you? A unit next to you? Give me some details about your building. Regards, Tom

Yes there are unit above me, and next me.

So are you saying, if no one was at my apartment (for weeks), brown water cannot come from my toilet to downstair? (they claim water leaked not only bathroom but hallway which I tiled).

Problem is they set me up. And I want to prove it is just impossible (which I believe it did not happen) that brown water from my toilet to downstair.

Thanks

I read again. Water supply line you mentioned here, if that happens, does large amount of water (that damage whole bathroom and hallway) pour (to downstair) or just leaking slowly (when someone has not been using toilet )?

Can it just happen suddenly without any previous problem then pour (to down stair)?

Thanks



"The water supply line can and does often leak(if not maintained on a regular basis,,say every few months or so,just turning the handle to the on and off positions would check it enough to see if it leaks),,if any of the seals are bad there can be a leak problem.Much less the actual water supply line to the fill valve.A flexible line with (at best) a compression seal which if overtightened or not tightened enough,,or has worked itself loose ,,can leak until turned off."

If it did,you would see the water on the floor,against the walls,everywhere basically.

When clean water runs through walls,ceilings etc,it can pick up a lot of pollution from in those areas,making it brownish.But eventually it would wash out all the dirt and grime ending up clearer and obvious to anyone that it is a broken line.

Is the supply line to your toilet still connected,does it still flush?If so,it isn't that.(Unless they replaced the handle/supply line and/or fill valve,etc)

Something is amiss with this whole situation.. it really doesn't sound like something from your unit,but I am not there... perhaps an outside source needs to be called in to find the truth.

They just claimed toilet was fixed without any explanation. They left nothing, not even a towel to mop floor, etc. they billed me large amount of painting of hallway and bathroom for downstair unit.

That's what I was wondered. There was sponge and rug next to toilet. None is wet or any sign of water mark (if passed about 1 month since alleged incident).

When brown water was dripping to our unit while ago, my carpet , etc. were totally damaged. Even after they steam cleaned twice.

If I were you,I would tell them no pay till you see evidence that something from your apartment did this damage.

A cold bill for something they can't prove,, just smells of something.A bill from? Plumbers? Fire department? Landlord?Painters?

Evidence and solid proof that your unit did this damage.

Perhaps you should post this situation on the legal boards where they can advise you further on the legalities.I am not a lawyer,I can't offer any real legal advice.

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they claim water leaked not only bathroom but hallway which I tiled).

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Wait as minute here! Is your air handler near the hallway?
I don't know how many times I've been called out to repair a leak only to find out it was a clogged AC condensate line and the pan was overflowing onto the floor.
That's about the only explanation I can come up with. Could be that's what's happening? Just curious. Has anybody checked? Back to you, tom

Thanks for responses. They empowered themselves so much that I cannot just say not paying until they prove. People, including myself, get surprised that how much unjustified power they have. But since this is a private entities, no one regulate their misconducts. Further, they make rules to protect themselves - e.g. you pay their legal fees if you sue them. They frequently sue residents with our money.

Can you kindly explain whether water pipe line can "BREAK" (not just leaking little bit) suddenly without any prior history? I also found inspection report (1 year ago) that toilet facet and plumbing were serviceable.

By the way, there is no a/c nearby.

Have you posted a question pertaining to this issue to the legal boards yet?

I know they will have advice you can follow to stop this from being an issue any longer.

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can you kindly explain whether water pipe line can "BREAK" (not just leaking little bit) suddenly without any prior history? I also found inspection report (1 year ago) that toilet facet and plumbing were serviceable.

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A hard-line can break from vibrations.. but that would mean an old galvanized pipe,not something like a newer flexible line.

The newer flexible lines might loose their seal,if installed improperly(ie:cross-threaded nut) then it could loose integrity and leak at almost anytime.But that is again doubtful.

Service report:Toilet? facet? And plumbing were serviceable... what does that mean exactly?That they inspected it and it passed?Or that it was simple accessible to be worked?

It is home inspection report when you sell your place. They used word "serviceable" (I guess try to be general).

The building is very old, and plumber neighbor told they are old enough to break sometimes in violation of city code. What do you mean by "flexible lines" :hard line"? Inside of toilet tank?

I live in my apartment over 10 years, and never had problem with water pipe line.

Not inside,outside,the feed lines are either hard lines(galvanized) or flex lines(either rubber or flexible line with mesh banding).

Seriously,this is more than a plumbing question,please go to the legal postings and ask there.

KBC. I will only ask plumbing questions.

I talked plumber, and he said he replaced shut up water supply, valve, balk cotk (? Inside toilet that fill water).

When I asked why valve, he said there was no valve when he got there.

Question 1. can you shut off water without valve?

2. given the situation (no one was at home for 3 weeks before alleged incident), and parts that plumber replaced, what do you think happened with toilet?

Thank you very much

Oh I was charge 250 for plumbing only - bldg management did not charge until yesterday.

Although painting was charged months before.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by peter44

1. can you shut off water without valve?

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Sure,the unit should have a shut-off somewhere much less the entire building(main water supply)

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2. given the situation (no one was at home for 3 weeks before alleged incident), and parts that plumber replaced, what do you think happened with toilet

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I honestly don't know,even if I was there to look at the parts that are new,I couldn't tell you what broke.

It could have been the flapper,the fill valve,the tank seal.

I would still question all this legally.

Beyond what I have offered you,I have no other solutions,sorry.

But you can shut off water without valve with trench etc?
Thanks

I would really APPRECIATE for answering 2 questions:

1. how often do you need to replace water pipe line or valve when you do n"NOT" have any problem?

2. can and do you shut off water without valve (with trench etc)?

Thanks

How often would be total speculation.

It depends on water hardness,wear,usage,etc.too many factors to come up with a true answer.

I simply don't understand you comment about a trench, are you saying they dug a trench?

Water supply can be shut off at the apartment or at the actual building,as I said before.There HAS to be a shut-off for emergencies. Minimum the city lines coming into the building have to be on a shut-off.That is just a standard all buildings have.

Please, if you can't understand this I am not able to help you further,sorry.