I'm seventeen and I have a friend, also seventeen, who I'm pretty GOSH dARN sure has Narcissistic Personality disorder. I feel like I have an obligation to suggest this to her, but knowing her she'd go home to her parents, tell them about it, and then they'd coddle her and reassure her that I'm the crazy one for thinking such a thing. She's so arrogant and unable to empathize that she's lost all of her friends and has made herself a social outcast. I feel that if she got help then maybe she'd learn to make it go away, but how do you tell a narcissistic person they're narcissistic?

You're in a spot for sure. And, you are a very good friend to stick by her when everyone else has give up.

However, while you may think she has narcissistic personality disorder, that diagnosis can only be made by a qualified professional, usually one with specific skill and knowledge of this disorder, and most likely a Psychiatrist. It is dangerous to 'slot' someone into a diagnosis, and it seems to be the trend de jour, to apply a mental illness to people, without qualification.

That she is arrogant, and unable to empathize could be characterised into many, many mental health diagnostic ticky boxes. It is admirable that you are doing your best to understand and make sense of her behaviour, don't get me wrong, but, if it is as dire as you make it sound, why not just be direct with her, without telling her (essentially) that she is mentally ill.

If you are in school, suggest that she see the school counsellor. You could also suggest that she get a thourough checkup, and discuss her problems via her family Doctor, for possible referral to a health care professional. There are many options available to her.

The key is, you can only suggest possible ways that she could decide herself, to pursue. You may have some influence because she's lost her friends and is a social outcast as you say- you could be a lifeline.

But, you cannot change her. That part is entirely up to her. If you provide concrete ways she can help herself, and even offer to go with her to counselling or whatever she decides to do, by all means do so. Support her, but don't be in the mindset that you know what's wrong. She may very well have things happening that you have no idea about. What you are seeing are symptoms. What is causing those symptoms, is an area that she has to be ready to address herself.

I do admire you for sticking by her, but that being said, you can only do so much, and give so much, before you lose yourself, and get so involved in helping her, that both of you aren't getting anywhere. Try to be firm, and set some boundaries- such as you will help her, provided she takes some steps to help herself. Realize that you cannot fix what's wrong with her, but you'll be there for her when she addresses her problems. There is not much else you can do.

Remember to take care of yourself too.

I agree with Jake. Be her friend and don't lose yourself. She is the one who has to want help.

Good friends are hard to find and I think you are very good for standing by her. You can't fix her but as Jake said you can be there for her. Good Luck

Thank you for such a lovely response. :] I certainly am no psychiatrist, but I'm interested enough in mental illnesses and have done enough research that I guess I *do* considered myself a little more qualified than the next guy, which I know is totally egotistic. Don't get me wrong though, I know I'm nowhere's near qualified, I just want you to know that I'm not some girl who saw a TV character with such a disorder and thought they acted like my friend or anything. :P

I was thinking of talking about it with the school counselor, yeah, though that would take a little personal wall breaking-- I kind of had a horrible session with the guy and have since never had much of a positive view of him. And I agree wholeheartedly with you about the overdiagnosis in mood/personality disorders as of late-- I personally know a four year old who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder *and* adhd and is on 8 prescriptions, it's completely horrendous! AHH! Anyway, I guess I'm getting off track.

I've been her best friend since fifth grade, and if you ask me, she's always been like this. In all our years of friendship, I've never once seen her cry or show ANY shred of emotion in regard to another human being except herself. When we were thirteen and I told her my stepdad had molested me, her response was pretty much equivalent to "wow, I feel bad for you." She's also extremely insensitive to other people's emotions and is notorious for saying horrible things to people very honestly without understanding why they're hurt. When people outright tell her she's a *****, she just sort of shrugs and tells people she "was never one for sensitivity" and doesn't seem to understand the gravity of the situation she's putting herself in. She seeks reassurance from her parents and they always give it to her, though they're not rich they raised her like a spoiled princess and I believe they are part this whole thing somehow. Probably the worst thing that she's done is openly criticized Catholicism in front of a classfull of catholics without understanding how rude a thing that is to do. Many people took offense, but she thought they were just being touchy and the teacher, who liked her, quickly diffused the situation. I don't know. Sometimes I just don't understand her.

I guess what I'm afraid of is that I'll tell her something's iffy with her behavior and suggest she talk to the school counselor, then she'll immediately go home and tell her parents and they'll tell her I'm crazy and then she'll never seek help. Maybe if I talked to the counselor he could contact her at least. Right?

Eh, taking care of others, I guess it's what I was born to do. :/

Thank you. :]

-Sam

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Originally Posted by doctorhorrible

thank you for such a lovely response. :] I certainly am no psychiatrist, but I'm interested enough in mental illnesses and have done enough research that I guess I *do* considered myself a little more qualified than the next guy, which I know is totally egotistic. don't get me wrong though, I know I'm nowhere's near qualified, I just want you to know that I'm not some girl who saw a TV character with such a disorder and thought they acted like my friend or anything. :P

I was thinking of talking about it with the school counselor, yeah, though that would take a little personal wall breaking-- I kind of had a horrible session with the guy and have since never had much of a positive view of him. And I agree wholeheartedly with you about the overdiagnosis in mood/personality disorders as of late-- I personally know a four year old who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder *and* adhd and is on 8 prescriptions, it's completely horrendous! AHH! Anyway, I guess I'm getting off track.

I've been her best friend since fifth grade, and if you ask me, she's always been like this. In all our years of friendship, I've never once seen her cry or show ANY shred of emotion in regard to another human being except herself. When we were thirteen and I told her my stepdad had molested me, her response was pretty much equivalent to "wow, I feel bad for you." She's also extremely insensitive to other people's emotions and is notorious for saying horrible things to people very honestly without understanding why they're hurt. When people outright tell her she's a *****, she just sort of shrugs and tells people she "was never one for sensitivity" and doesn't seem to understand the gravity of the situation she's putting herself in. She seeks reassurance from her parents and they always give it to her, though they're not rich they raised her like a spoiled princess and I believe they are part this whole thing somehow. Probably the worst thing that she's done is openly criticized Catholicism in front of a classfull of catholics without understanding how rude a thing that is to do. Many people took offense, but she thought they were just being touchy and the teacher, who liked her, quickly diffused the situation. I don't know. Sometimes I just don't understand her.

I guess what I'm afraid of is that I'll tell her something's iffy with her behavior and suggest she talk to the school counselor, then she'll immediately go home and tell her parents and they'll tell her I'm crazy and then she'll never seek help. Maybe if I talked to the counselor he could contact her at least. Right?

Eh, taking care of others, I guess it's what I was born to do. :/

Thank you. :]

-Sam

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Friends like you are hard to find. God Bless you!:)

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Originally Posted by Kitkat22

Friends like you are hard to find. God Bless you!:)

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aw, thanks. x] I just don't want her to be oblivious to what's making her unhappy, yknow?

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Originally Posted by doctorhorrible

aw, thanks. x] I just don't want her to be oblivious to what's making her unhappy, yknow?

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Yes I do. You're doing the right thing.:)

Although it might be possible for a 4 year old to be diagnosed with a mental illness,to my knowledge there is no medications for the treatment of such as you have described for one that young.

Can you site your information with fact please.

The thing about friendships to me, is that it has to be balanced. If one party is having their needs met at the expense of the other, then it becomes unhealthy for both.

If your friend is using your friendship, and feeling that there are no consequences to her behaivour because you feel the overwhelming need to help her (despite many others who have tried and given up), and keep coming back, then what would motivate her to change.

When it is all give on your part, and she gives little or nothing in return when you need her, how are your needs being met. It is a slippery slope because friendship is sharing the good, bad, and indifferent, and those factors, not met by both parties, makes more for a mentor/parent relationship, rather than a friendship. When the role goes from friendship, to rescuer, with no immediate changes to balance it back to a friendship- let's just say it becomes dependency for both of you.

If you want a friendship with her, and you no longer have a friendship, but you are together because of her being needy, and you have come to the 'position' of needing to rescue her, it might be time to think of how the relationship has evolved. Just because you've known her since 5th grade doesn't qualify her as a friend for life

I had a long, long friendship with a gal that started when we started high school. A few decades passed, and I get a letter from her saying that should her husband call, she was at a wedding with me for the weekend- my sisters' wedding no less- so that he would not know she met up with her online boyfriend. There was no wedding, and my sister lived on an island off the West coast.

That was the end of the friendship, and I refused to help her cheat on her husband. (lucky for me he didn't call). The point being that the friendship we had as teenagers, changed and evolved to each of us getting married, having children, careers, etc. and survived all of that, including distance, between us. A solid friendship could survive anything, but, what she threw in the friendship pot, was not something I could live with.

So when I say losing yourself in this friendship you have, be prepared for her to change. She may make positive changes, you may have underestimated her parents' involvement (who knows that they haven't done their own research too), and she could turn into a more sensitive adult and a better friend- who knows. But, because you think she has a mental illness, does not necessarily translate into her being the friend you need, if that one problem is 'fixed'. Be careful is all Im saying, of investing yourself in this friendship, where clearly it is out of balance- for you.

While I respect your research work and subsequent analysis, as an educated and trained counsellor myself, If I learned anything, it was that I was nowhere near qualified to judge another human being, let alone decide that they had a mental disorder.

Maybe putting aside the problems she has for a moment, and really taking a good look at rather the nature of the relationship itself, might help to define the health of the friendship. I hope she listens to you, and is willing to seek help, but while you may hope for the best, my advice to you, is to be prepared for the worst, in that she may not make a decision to help herself.