Greetings all.

Well this is a new one for me so I need some serious help.

Today my son and I went to install a ceiling fan in his room. After we got the existing lighting fixture down and went to install the fan brace, we discovered that the drywall ceiling was sagging. We got most of the insulation away from the lighting outlet and we could see several screws on the bottom of the joist.

With my hand, I could feel where the backing on the dry wall was ripped away. There is at least 3 inches between the bottom of the joist and the top of the drywall.

Not knowing the drywalling trade, it appears to me that this ceiling must come down before it collapses. I thought we could build some supports and push the ceiling back up and then screw it back in place, but the physical drywall is bowed in several spots.

Don

Rather then making braces and trying to shore it up before you rescrew or nail it up. There are rental comapanies that have sheet holders. The last time I sheetrocked it was the best ever. What concerns me is you haven't mentioned the joints. With 3" of sag those joints I would think would be open? Sheetrock in general is cheap. The only real problem in installing new is your going to have to remove and reinstall any insulation above it. But either way I recommend looking into one of those sheet holders.

Do you think the 3" of sag is due to something falling in say the attic above or due to water?

I've only patched with exceptional results.

Remember that the edges of full sheets are tapered slightly so it's easier making the joints.

Hi Kiss,

I didn't realize you watched this forum also.

From what I could see, there is nothing on top of the joists. There is blown insulation resting on the top of the drywall.

I really have to get into the attic to see what is actually there.

There is a scuttle from the garage and one from the bedroom hallway. The current master bedroom is an add-on. The room my son has is probably the original Master Bedroom.

I'm thinking of coming in through the garage scuttle or maybe clearing enough insulation of the drywall and then cutting an access from the between the joists and removing the section of drywall. That way I can get right to the damaged area.

I don't see the possibility of saving the existing ceiling.

I should just let it fall on my son's head and maybe it will knock some sense into that thick skull. But I don't think mother will allow me to let that happen.

I watch all the forums looking at questions that seem interesting. Some I may respond to and others I may just subscribe too. I think it's a great way of getting an education.

Bet the 3" gap is a result of something falling in the attic or someone trying to straddle the beams and slipping. My mom fell through the attic floor many years ago.

You may have it easy since you may be able to replace full sheets.

Some patching techniques include:

Cutting at the edge of the joists and putting in a separate furring strip for the patch all because it's easier than say routing or cutting the drywall, so the edge is at the middle of the joist.

If the drywall is cut not spanning a joist, then one can glue/screw a furring strip on the drywall back side to make the seam.

Dremel just came out with a sort of jigsaw that uses a router bit. This could be an interesting tool.

Ah- HA,

An excuse to buy a new toy, oops I meant new tool! Silly keyboard!

I've done some research and discovered may well be cruddy installation.

My joists are 24" on center. The Sheetrock appears to be 1/2" instead of 5/8".

Of course all the blown insulation up there is going to be a real PIA!!

From the size of the ceiling bow it also looks like several sheets are involved, not just the one over the lighting outlet.

Well, here goes another free weekend!

If you put a new layer of 1/2 inch right over the top of the existing one you wouldn't have the problems of the insulation falling down,longer screws to hold both layers up,more screws per board to make sure this doesn't happen again,glue the new to the old with adhesive.. overlap in different seams than the first layer.It would eliminate the problems of cutting and adding extra wood to screw to.

You could mark the joists,24 o/c ,strike a chalk line down the ceiling,measure for each piece,just like new construction.Tape and finish like new.You would have to lower the outlet box for the fan fixture,but outside that, it would do the job you are looking to accomplish without all that mess.

Califdadof3 did suggest a great tool for the installation of the new,a lift would make the job a whole lot simpler,making the pressure applied to the old even and tight enough for you to get longer screws in.. lowering the machine slightly to see if all the screws hold the new in place..

Just an idea.. :)

KBC,

New information. I cut out a cross section of the ceiling just to see what was there and why all the weight.

Turns out that it is not just drywall. There appears to be about a 1/2" drywall mounted to the joists (24" to center).

Followed by a "cement" type covering or bonding agent that also holds radiant heat wiring.

So now I understand the weight and what I want to do is cut a large enough section down so that I can get above the ceiling without going through the scuttle (at the opposite side of the house). Clean off the blown insulation from above this room and then continue to cut manageable sections out of the ceiling until I have it cleared.

Part two would then be to remove all the existing dry wall screws still embedded in the joists.

Part three, would be to replace the old stuff with 4' X 12' sheets (5/8" thick).

We are now on electric forced air heat pump so the heating coils are no longer necessary.

Question 1: For easy access I'm planning on leaving a scuttle in this room. Is that allowed?

Question 2: What would you use to re-insulate the area over the bedroom? I'd like to use a faced rolls of insulation, do you have a better idea?

Anything else you can advise me to do, or a better way short of jumping on the ceiling to see how long it takes to collapse under me and bring the room down? :)

I could also get my son to stand below me and catch the debris so that he can put it into a trash bag. Yuk, yuk!

If you want to go green you can use this. When I do my remodel I think Im going to try it.

Ref:

Natural Cotton Fiber Insulation, Natural Cellulose Insulation

I would LOVE to be able to direct quote but this new skin doesn't have that feature yet!

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Turns out that it is not just drywall. There appears to be about a 1/2" drywall mounted to the joists (24" to center).

Followed by a "cement" type covering or bonding agent that also holds radiant heat wiring.

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Drywall is on the visible side THEN the fiber board(or is it plaster and lathe?)

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For easy access I'm planning on leaving a scuttle in this room. Is that allowed?

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What is it you refer to as a scuttle?A crawl space?A line of boards across the floor of the attic?

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What would you use to re-insulate the area over the bedroom? I'd like to use a faced rolls of insulation, do you have a better idea?

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Blown insulation is perhaps the best you can use.It doesn't have spacing between the batts,it doesn't have a fire hazard(like the faced paper would/does),it is less expensive and easier to apply than rolls.

My best suggestion would be to move the insulation that is there to another area in the attic and keep it there,once you are done with this room,blow new in this area.More is good than less.I haven't found that there has ever been someone to say too much blown insulation is too much(unless something needs to be mounted above the insulation making a compacting issue)

Back to you.

KBC

1) Other way around. The drywall is attached to the joist and the cement (or whatever) was applied to the finished side of the drywall along with the heating wiring.

2) A "Scuttle" is defined (in this area anyway) as an opening in the ceiling large enough to allow a person access to the attic above.

3) Insulation, I was thinking of putting 1/2" or 5/8" sheets of wood down floor the attic space above this room and then use that as storage for non flammable stuff.

Had to get that clarification about the scuttle... We simply call it access.. but to each their own... sure your American.. LOL:D

Odd that cement board on top of the drywall.. and that's all over the ceiling?And the heating wiring cover the entire ceiling as well?Odd for sure.. never ran across anything like that before.

If so,yeah,you might need to remove it,it seems to be dragging the drywall down, drywall isn't always glued to the joists,they are mostly just screwed(I wouldn't want to remove a glued drywall sheeting from a ceiling anyway.)

The floor (and joists)would be flammable anyway... but... blown would still be the method I would go with.It is very simple to do, hardest part is getting the hose to the attic, one person CAN do this, but it is much nicer with 2(one operating the hopper keeping it loaded and one blowing the attic.)

But it's all in what you are comfortable with.

I'll take a swag at the "Scuttle" term.

This area is loaded with U.S.Navy Bases.

The Navy operates this big gray floating things call warships. Inside the ships are Scuttles, small access panels to get between bulkheads. As opposed to doors both NWT (non water tight) and WT (water tight) doors. :)