Hello everyone,
My wife and I just moved into an old (1930s) Spanish house in Los Angeles. We have 2 bathrooms, with the master bathroom containing a bathtub and a separate shower stall. The shower stall is tight with a low ceiling and the bathroom has no exhaust fan (only 2 windows) and therefore, the shower has become a nice breeding ground for mold. We'd like to start using the bathtub for showering, although it's only set-up as a bathtub with no shower head. I know I can use the existing set-up and just swap out the spout for one with a 1/2" diverter, attach flexible hose and a handheld wand, and set-up a mount on the wall to hold the wand. That doesn't look real sexy, though ...in fact, I would imagine it looks pretty lame. I found a neat shower faucet that I'd like to install, if possible, but it will require me to bring the water lines in closer together to fit the new valve. The faucet I want to install is a 1 piece valve (hot/cold valves on an upside down T), with the hot/cold inlets approx. 6 inches apart on center. My current hot/cold valves are 8.25" apart on center. This new faucet then has a solid riser that extends upward from the valve, then curves back downward and finishes with a "rain" style head. So imagine the shower head water line finished in chrome and positioned/secured just outside the tile wall instead of inside the wall. It also has a flexible hose attached to the valve with a small handheld wand that gets mounted to a sliding bar... this is more for show than anything as the handheld is pretty slim with tiny holes for the water. This whole faucet set-up is pretty Euro looking and definitely better looking than the other alternative I mentioned earlier. It's made of chrome plated brass. So my question is, how much work does it require to move the hot/cold water lines from 8.25" apart to about 6 inches apart so I can attach the new valve/faucet? I assume I would need to break into the wall to access the water lines. There is a back access panel on the adjoining wall that gives access to the tub drain but it sits too low to be able to mess with the hot/cold lines. The wall I would need to break into is tiled (4x4 run of the mill yellow tiles). Another question is this tiled wall only goes up mid chest throughout the entire bathroom. The wall from midpoint and up is just white plaster walls. I assume I would need to install matching tiles at least to head height in the tub area to convert this tub to a shower, too, huh? I am a typical DIY kind of guy and love digging into challenging projects like this but I'm thinking the re-routing water lines might be out of my level of comfort. With that said, what would a fair plumber charge for this if I do the demo and all finish/re-tile work? Thank you everyone!
Steve

Show us some pictures.
What kind of water pipes do you have, galvanized or copper?
Do you know how to solder pipe?

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I am a typical DIY kind of guy and love digging into challenging projects like this but I'm thinking the re-routing water lines might be out of my level of comfort.

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1930's homes have galvanized iron piping. Would it make it easier for you to convert to PVC and CPVC and run plastic?
You'll have to open up the access wall to change the valve. In your case I would keep the valve where it is and install your shiny new shower valve in the same spot, If it's a two handle valve they make a chrome cover plate to cover the holes. That would save a lot of work. If you're converting to a shower figure on tiling all the way up. And what are the tub walls above the tile made of? If they're made of regular dry wall they might have to be replaced as well
What do you think?

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With that said, what would a fair plumber charge for this

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Every remodel job is different, no two the same. Without being on site it's impossible to put a figure on it.

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Originally Posted by hkstroud

Show us some pictures.
What kind of water pipes do you have, galvanized or copper?
Do you know how to solder pipe?

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Hi Harold,
I assume they are not copper based on the age of the place + the fact that the shower gets hot when someone flushes the toilet. I have not solder pipe before but it's not something I am opposed of learning :D

I've attached photos of my bathtub. Don't laugh... it's old as heck and the tiles are cracking in multiple spots + whoever did the caulking job in this bathroom should retire from it immediately. The caulking looks horrible (something I plan to fix).

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Originally Posted by speedball1

1930's homes have galvanized iron piping. Would it make it easier for you to convert to PVC and CPVC and run plastic?
You'll have to open up the access wall to change the valve. In your case I would keep the valve where it is and install your shiny new shower valve in the same spot, If it's a two handle valve they make a chrome cover plate to cover the holes. That would save a lot of work. If you're converting to a shower figure on tiling all the way up. And what are the tub walls above the tile made of? If they're made out of regular dry wall they might have to be replaced as well
What do you think?
Each and every remodel job is different, no two the same. Without being on site it's impossible to put a figure on it.

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Speedball,
Do you mean for me to convert to plastic for the entire place or just this spot by the tub? I probably won't convert the entire house to plastic or copper anytime soon but maybe eventually. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by keep the valve in the same spot. I don't intend on moving it to a new location. However, I could be wrong but the width of the new shiny chrome valve is not as wide as the width of the existing hot/cold valves so I'm assuming I need to move the water lines closer together as they come in through the wall and into the tub. Take a look at the photos I attached of the existing compared to the new 1 piece valve (attached in my previous response). I also attached a few more photos to this post... one more of the new valve and 2 photos of the access panel showing the tight area of access.

And the walls above the tile are just plain old white, plaster walls. My thought was to install a moisture barrier, then 1/4" hardibacker over the plaster, then find matching 4x4 yellow tile and tile up to about head height just in the tub area. Then grout and recaulk the entire tub with a smooth, clean finish. I'll need to mount a corner shower rod with brace connected to the ceiling.

Thanks for your feedback!
Steve

Here is a stock photo of the new shower faucet/fixture I bought.

That looks like a shower valve to me, not a tub and shower valve.
Do you have access to the pipes beneath the floor? If so I think I would make an access to the valves above the present access panel, cut the galvanize pipes. From underneath the floor you should be able to unscrew the pipes at some point and switch over to CPVC piping. How far back you have to go depends on how rusted you find the 90's tees, or what ever fittings are.

Chip out the broken tiles around the valves and replace. Good luck on matching the color of the tiles. You should be able to work the CPVC through the floor, the access panel and the hole you have to make to get to the valve. If you use the valve you are showing, you will only to drill through the new tiles at the correct place and connect your hot and cold piping.
If you use a tub and shower valve that is in the wall you will have to cut out that stud that is between the hot and cold pipes.

If you use a valve in the wall, run a piece of CPVC for the shower riser, up the wall, from I assume the basement through one of the holes before you put the actual piping in. That way you get it up in one piece. You can restore your plaster by cutting the plaster back a few inches beyond where you have to cut the lath. Screw some plywood to the lath then cover with drywall and finish with joint compound. Whether you use 1/2 or 3/4" plywood depends on how thick the plaster is. You should be able to find some combination that brings you fairly close to the finish level of the plaster.
Yes, you will need to bring the tile around the tub up a couple of feet. Given that you have plaster walls and you are talking about the upper portion of the wall, I think I would consider trying to put some water proofing on the existing walls and tiling them. I would think that your existing tiled walls are plaster and have last all these years. If you start trying to cut out 2 feet of plaster and lath you are probably going to destroy the entire wall.

This is not a simple job at all. I don't know how handy you are... but think twice before you attempt to do it yourself. It will take an experienced plumber with proper tools about one work day to complete the job.

The new facet has no play. Therefore, the rough-in piping has to be done absolutely perfect. Also, there is very little play on depth. So installer has to rough it in with utmost precision.

In this type of installation, rough-in is 95% of the work. Mounting the new faucet is a snap. Moreover, you have old water pipes that will have to be modified, possibly cut shorter or extended a bit. There is a good chance they will break when pressure is applied.

Also, you have to support the rough in with 2x4 blocks. These wooden blocks will hold the faucet solid. I would not recommend PEX or CPVC piping. Use galvanized pipe or Copper. They will give you lot better support.

You will have 3 old holes left over in the tile. Plumber can use offset connectors and utilize 2 upper holes. These connectors come with escutcheon so no patching is needed. If no offset connectors are used, you will need to drill holes through the tile for new h/c water pipes and patch the old ones - or replace them.

Looking at your photos, this tile looks to me like old American Olean product. American Olean supplied most of the West L.A. with these colorful tiles when Westside was built. Today, you can get similar color tile in tile stores that carry Mexican style tiles. Of course, the bottom hole left after spout was removed will have to be dealt with as well...

One more detail: this faucet is very (very) sensitive on dirt in water. If you have old galvanized plumbing in your house, chances are the small openings in the shower head and hand-held shower will be constantly clogged up giving you sub-standard service...

Good luck... Let us know how you did... Milo

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Do you mean for me to convert to plastic for the entire place or just thisspot by the tub?

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I didn't mean the entire house just if you wish to do the job yourself plastic is easier to work with then copper or galvanized.
So you want to install a shower valve that doesn't have a outlet form as tub spout? I have a few suggestions, If you're going to use the tub as a shower base why not go all the way, remove the tub and replace it with a shower base designed to replace a tub, (see image). That way you'd have yourseld a 5 foot walk in shower.
Now if you wish to keep and still use the tub I would suggest a Moen one handle valve in the same location with a chrome remodel plate, ( see image}m with a diverter spout and a pancake rain shower head. Listen to Milo. He seems familiar with the valve you've selected,

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this faucet is very (very) sensitive on dirt in water. If you have old galvanized plumbing in your house, chances the small openings in the shower head and hand-held shower will be constantly clogged up giving you sub-standard service...

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That would be enough warning for me. Soooo, What's your pleasure? You want a impressive shower? In my opinion adding a external shower valve on a tub leaving off the spout is just funky and not cool at all. Why not go all the weay, tear out the tub and tile and build yourself a cool walk in shower with twiun shower heads if you wish. Sound like a plan? Let me know, Tom

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Originally Posted by hkstroud

That looks like a shower valve to me, not a tub and shower valve.

Yes, you will need to bring the tile around the tub up a couple of feet. Given that you have plaster walls and you are talking about the upper portion of the wall, I think I would consider trying to put some water proofing on the existing walls and tiling them. I would think that your existing tiled walls are plaster and have last all these years. If you start trying to cut out 2 feet of plaster and lath you are probably going to destroy the entire wall.

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hkstroud,
Thanks for your feedback. Yikes! I completely forgot about the water not going through the tub spout with this new valve. With this set-up, I won't be able to use the tub and that's not what I wanted. That bites... and I can't return this new shower fixture, either. I bought it from a general contractor who had this as a left over from a new condo project. I'll have to throw it up on eBay and see what I can get for it.

So this sounds like a fairly intense project in which I would have needed to hire a professional for. I think I'll revert back to the spout diverter with a mounted hand shower set-up for now. As far as tiling the wall higher up, I wasn't planning on ripping the plaster out and installing hardibacker in it's place. I planned on attaching a moisture barrier over the existing wall, then attaching the hardibacker on top of that, then tile. I don't know if tile will adhere to just the plaster wall and a moisture barrier alone. With that black boarder tile going around the middle point of the entire bathroom, there is a level difference between where the existing tile is and where the plaster wall is, probably almost an inch (an inch lower on the plaster wall side). The hardibacker and tile would add probably a 1/2" to the wall so there would still be a level difference but not as prominent.

Thanks again for the feedback,
Steve

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Looking at your photos, this tile looks to me like old American Olean product. American Olean supplied most of the West L.A. with these colorful tiles when Westside was built. Today, you can get similar color tile in tile stores that carry Mexican style tiles. Of course, the bottom hole left after spout was removed will have to be dealt with as well....

One more detail: this faucet is very (very) sensitive on dirt in water. If you have old galvanized plumbing in your house, chances the small openings in the shower head and hand-held shower will be constantly clogged up giving you sub-standard service...

Good luck...Let us know how you did...Milo

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Milo,
Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, I think my idea of using this shower faucet/valve set-up is not that good after what you guys have told me. This is some substantial work involved and it may end up being worse off if pipes were to break in the process. I didn't think about this valve being sensitive to water coming from old pipes but you're right. This thing will probably clog up quite a bit... in fact, the handheld shower wand has some tiny little holes and surely that thing would eventually clog up.

Thank you for the info on American Olean. My place is in the Miracle Mile area of LA, in-between San Vicente and Wilshire, where there are tons of Spanish style homes with this kind of Mexican tile in the baths, kitchens, on the fireplaces, and in decorative spots on the outside of the houses. I looked this company up and it looks like 3 or 4 tile places not far from our home sell this brand so I'll try them to see if they have a matching style.

Thanks again,
Steve

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Originally Posted by speedball1

So you want to install a shower valve that doesn't have a outlet form as tub spout? I have a few suggestions, If you're gonna use the tub as a shower base why not go all the way, remove the tub and replace it with a shower base designed to replace a tub, (see image). That way you'd have yourseld a 5 foot walk in shower.
Now if you wish to keep and still use the tub I would suggest a Moen one handle valve in the same location with a chrome remodel plate, ( see image}m with a diverter spout and a pancake rain shower head. Listen to Milo. He seems familiar with the valve you've selected, That would be enough warning for me. Soooo, What's your pleasure? You want a impressive shower? In my opinion adding a external shower valve on a tub leaving off the spout is just funky and not cool at all. Why not go all the weay, tear out the tub and tile and build yourself a cool walk in shower with twiun shower heads if you wish. Sound like a plan? Let me know, Tom

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Hey Tom,
Yeah, I didn't realize I would be disabling the tub spout when I envisioned this shower faucet/valve installed. My bad there... I'll have to can the idea of using this dang thing. I would love to rip this entire bathroom apart and start over but I don't have the extra cash right now to do that. But if I had my way, I would convert this to just a shower and rip out the old, low ceiling shower. But yeah, installing a one handle valve with a spout diverter and pancake shower head would be the next best thing. Could I do this with a solid riser or would I need to use the flexible hose? I don't like the look of the flexible hose... I would love to find a chrome solid riser that attaches to the spout diverter but these are definitely untraditional parts and very difficult to find.
Thanks,
Steve

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Originally Posted by ;

installing a one handle valve with a spout diverter and pancake shower head would be the next best thing. Could I do this with a solid riser or would I need to use the flexible hose? I

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If youn converted to a single handle shower valve there would be a hard raiser to the shower head located inside the wall.

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I think I'll revert back to the spout diverter with a mounted hand shower set-up for now.

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They make a spout special for that, (see image). Simply change spouts and hook up a hand held shower. Good luck Tom
PS: I still think my idea of replacing the tub with a five foot shower base with twin pancake rain shower heads was a neat idea. Cheers, Tom