Ask Me Help Desk - Brook needs training

You know my friends I would swear by any advice that would be given to me on this board, so I am coming for help with Brook.

You know I have had her for two or 3 months; she is a lovely little dog, affectionate, well trained for the house, happy all the time, eats well and my son, bless him, will walk her under any conditions, but I cannot. Brook is not socialized with other dogs, she lunges, jumps all over the place, barks and it is hard to contain her. I knew she wasn't, but didn't think it would too bad. Also, she lunges at other people, at motorcycles, so you have to be constantly on alert for her antics. That's why I bless Chris for his steadfastness taking her out every night.

I walk her when I get up at 5:30 or so, no one around, no people, very unlikely to see other dogs.

She hates my neighbour. If she sees her on the deck doing her chores, Brook is over there barking at her heels and the last time, Krista (my neighbour) thought for sure she was going to bite. She happened to have a big pail of water in her hands and I was hoping she could have dumped it on Brook at the time.

So you see, I am on a constant alert anywhere. Not good. I love her dearly.

She is definitely not a runner, comes when called jumping fences to get back to me wherever.

I don't have any faith in dog trainers, but if you say I should have one, then yes, I will but Brook is four years old, she hasn't been abused just not cared for in some instances.

I hope I have given you all enough information to give me some advice for this situation. So, shazzy, alty, AB, Binny, chime in to give me your thoughts.

Your friend, tick

What are you using for a collar and leash?

I HIGHLY recommend Gentle Leaders, not the halty's or the knock off's the actual Gentle Leader.

Premier Pet

Lady was the same way as your Brook. Here's what helped us. When you are walking her, ask her to sit before you start walking, and than use a command for go, like "let's go!" (you get the point). When you come to stop sign, she sits, and looks to you for next command. Every time you come to a stop make her come to a stop and sit.

I don't think I have to explain why she is acting like this, but in short, she doesn't know what her job is, and she is acting out in fear. She obviously wants to do good for you if she has such excellent re call (remember honey moon phase can last up to 6-8 months). I bet with the right direction she will excel!

When you are at home, before she gets fed, she sits. Before she exits the house, she sits, before she she gets pet, she sits. Before she does ANYTHING she sits. This will help when it comes to the relaxation, and also put you in alpha status. It will calm her mind, and takes the stress off her having to be the protector. Now she has a job to do.

When she is jumping at other dogs or vehicles, ask her to sit. Praise the good, ignore the bad. This is a great time for treats or a squeaker or a favorite toy as a distraction. When she start jumping, you call her name and show her the treat. When she looks to you for the treat, praise say things like "good sit Brook!" Try getting her to work for her breakfast. Take a handful of the kibble when you go for walks. Remember to stay relaxed. She is feeding off your stress or tension.

This is all I can think of right now. I'm kind of burned out from the week end, but I will pull up my old protocols and send them your way, as well as my lesson plans from Lady's obedience classes, ( She's now onto level 3! :D ) if you're interested in them.

Also, if she is on your furniture, you will have more luck establishing alpha, by not allowing her on the furniture for a few more months. And than she should only be up there when invited.

Hope this helps. :) :)

AB, what about son Chris? Will Brook get confused if both tick and Chris are doing the sit-reward thing? Is it good to give a reward each time Brook sits, no matter where they are?

(I might consider getting a dog so you guys can advise me.)

Lol.
Thanks for pointing this out! No the treats are only for distractions when she lunging and jumping at animals and such. When she is just sitting, Tick doesn't even have to say "good", it's going to become an expected action from Brook. When Tick and Brook are walking, and Brook is doing what she is supposed to do, Tick can sneak her a kibble and say "good walk Brook".

It's best for only one trainer, but it's just not feasible these days, and the more exercise Brook is getting the better, so as long as Chris is going to be diligent in the training it should be fine. Brook will bond the most to the one she feels the most comfortable with. But will listen to either family member.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

Lol.
Thanks for pointing this out! No the treats are only for distractions when she lunging and jumping at animals and such.

Day One: Chris takes Brook for a walk in the evening. They get to the front door and Chris tells Brook to sit while he opens the door. Should he give her a treat when she sits (first time in this training)? Then they go out the door and begin to walk. They come to a cross street. Chris tells her to sit. Should he give her a treat this time?

Can he pat her head and tell her "good Brook" instead of giving her a treat?

Doesn't Chris want to lock in the sit behavior with treats at first?

No. the treats are to reward GOOD behavior. The sitting is expected behavior. Brook will be getting treats along the walk, and when Brook is meeting other dogs and people, than Chris will be distracting her with treats. I mean if Chris wants to give her a treat to 'lock down' the sit behavior, it's not going to be the end of the world. It's not going to make or break the training. I'd be more worried that Chris or even Tick would get into the habit of treating Brook for sitting. The sitting is going to be expected now for everything.

And yes the patting is okay.

I would definitely suggest a gentle leader. The idea there would be if you can control her head, then you can control her body.

If you don't want to go the obedience class way, you can approach her craziness another way.

Take her to a park. Not a very busy park because you don't want to over do it. Sit down on a bench, some someplace where people will walk buy. She is going to bark and act out of control.. And you're going to want to ignore it. Ignore everything that she does. Anytime she stands, sits or lays down quietly, reward her immediately with a treat, her favorite ball and then leave.

The next day, try it again. These lessons should only last about 15 minutes. The better she does, the more you're going to move into bigger crowds

Between these types of lessons, try getting her to heal on a leash. Insist that she sits every time you stop. Do the watch me command.. Where you take a treat, let her sniff it, maybe even tease her a bit, then bring the treat immediately up to your face (under your chin) and say "watch me". At first its going to be a 1 second glance. Treat her for it. Then do it again. Eventually she will learn to look at you for a period (maybe 30 seconds or less). I think its kind of a trust exercise. And it's a command that should be practiced more often. You can do it anywhere.. in the Kitchen while cooking dinner, watching Tv.. before bed time.. Outside playing fetch.. Make her do it all the time. And treat her for it.

Don't allow treats to become your crutch though. Your dog should listen to you under all circumstances. Treats are great motivators for the beginning of a new lesson.. but try and wean her off them as soon as she understands what your command is.

As far as her lunging at other dogs.. Purchase a gentle leader. You will have better control. And start small. Walk her up and down a street where you know there are dogs that she can see. Get her use to being around other dogs. She does seem to be very socialized. Be aware of your own body actions. Dogs can sense when you're getting nervous. If you tense up, pull her in tight to you and start walking faster, the she is feeding off that. She is probably thinking your nervous about the other dog also. So just relax. Walk past the other dogs as if you don't see them. Focus on her.. Talk to her, keep her moving forward. You can even dangle a treat in front of her for the first few times.

If she is completely out of control and is not listening to you and is focused on the other dog.. Then turn around and walk the other way. Once she gets focus again and calms down.. Try it again.

As for bikes, motorcycles and other things.. use that same technique. Act as if there is no out but just you two. She will settle down and relax. If you're not amped up, she won't be either.

Is she friendly to dogs she meets? Or have you not tired that yet? Please keep in mind that a well socialized dog does not have to be friendly towards other dogs or people.. A socialized dog is a dog that can go anywhere without causing a scene.

The training techniques I described are not quick fixes by any means. It could take months up to a year before she is where you want her to be. I have seen them work and work effectively. Just relax and have fun :) I would probably suggest you sign up for obedience classes... Not because your dog needs to learn sit again, but because it would help your dog become more socialized in a controlled environment. Even if your dog knows sit and stay very well, I'm sure she won't know how to do it in a class of 8 dogs. It would benefit you very much to sign up for classes. Go through one basic obedience class.. continue to work with your dog and maybe in 6 months enroll in another type of class. Your main focus is to socialize your dog, not teaching her to sit.

As for the neighbor thing.. As soon as you start gaining better control of your dog, you will be able to put a stop to this. She is running wild and free with somewhat of a connection with people. Working with her on the obedience level will create a very strong bond.

AB, duly noted, thanks. She has a collar and long lead. I use to use a halty on Taffy. It always worked for her, so will go back to that, but what is the difference between a halty and a gentle lead, as you mentioned.

She is already on the furniture, AB, and on my bed. Yes I know. My dogs have always been with me at night. Sometimes two three at the farm for cold nights!

Send along anything you have. I will ingest it all. This has put me off walking her because I hate a fuss, so will have to do something soon. I love walking. Chris will be moving on Sept. lst, found an apt. in Toronto, so it will be only me and Brook after that, so must get it sorted.

Tick

Another thought. I don't think she is a candidate for the invisible fencing I already have which I thought would be an end all and be all to that problem with the neighbour. Now I am thinking fence. I am getting too old for this I think sometimes !

There are specific guidelines to train with the invisible fencing. That I am familiar with but she has already had a very uncomfortable experience and won't even come off the sundeck is she sees the special collar.

Thanks, Lucky, really good points. My problem is I was spoiled with my Taffy because I had her from five weeks (she was a puppy rescue). A very large dog. So we grew together in this mutual training thing. She has since passed away. Brook is four years old and her previous owner just put her outside and she ran wild most times, but mind you, always obedient to 'come home brook' for me anyway.

This is all a lot to take in.

Thanks again, any more ideas, just put them here

Tick

::looks around for Cats:: I prefer the GL, I find it has a better fit, and better control. Lots of people would beg to differ, I have bought and used both, but just prefer the GL.

So, are you going to continue to allow Brook on the furniture and bed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

:
So, are you going to continue to allow Brook on the furniture and bed?

I know what you want me to say, I should be saying, no more, but I can't do that. I am dyed in the wool, luvvy, just an old farmer at heart. Be gentle with me. This old girl needs that little warm body on the bed. You see, hubby sleeps in another room. I don't need that warm body with restless leg syndrome and snoring and smelling like stale cigarettes. :eek:

Tick

I understand, I completely do. I was asking, because I'll have to think of other ways to obtain Alpha with out putting Brook on the down and out. One thing you can do is only let her up on invite, not as she wishes. Would this be a good compromise?

Actually she waits to be invited up on the bed, so that's a good thing, right. Except for the times she gets rambuctious and is playing. She does have her own chair in the livingroom that she uses on her own. She is a very mindful dog. If I asked to get down off her chair she would immediately.

Right now, helping my son refinish a table for his apt. we were yelling and disagreeing, she is under the bed. She hates yelling, anyway, just thought I would throw that in.

Okay so her behaviors in the home and outside are completely different. She knows where her status in in the house, but out side she kind of goes into protectiveness over drive?

Do you use your halti with her now while you are walking? If not, start right away. This will give you more control over her. If she is not willing to sit you gently pull upwards until she has no choice to sit. I mean you won't be jerking the chain, or hurting her. It's just an upward pull with the leash, and it makes her crane her neck upwards until she has no choice to sit.

I think something that will help tremendously will be distractions and pos. reinforcement. Is she very food motivated?

I haven't used a halti, and don't think anyone has ever on Brook. I used a halti for Taffy and she was 80 lbs. and worked very well. I hear you. Will buy one. I use a collar and lead on her which came with her. Not very much information offered when she came, I thought her original owner knew her well, said she walked well but not socialized, but didn't actually know her THAT well. Mainly because her second owner was a real itinerant jerk who took her everywhere he went, let her get knocked up by this ugly little dog, etc. etc. couldn't feed her properly... dont want to go there it makes me mad. She is such a loyal little thing, she was completely loyal to him and he did nothing for her. So much for unconditional love, I guess.

So... tomorrow... get a halti, gotcha.

Love you

Quote:

Originally Posted by tickle

Thanks, Lucky, really good points. My problem is I was spoiled with my Taffy because I had her from five weeks (she was a puppy rescue). A very large dog. So we grew together in this mutual training thing. She has since passed away. Brook is four years old and her previous owner just put her outside and she ran wild most times, but mind you, always obedient to 'come home brook' for me anyway.

It is going to be an adjustment for both you and her. She also has some habits that are going to be hard to kick. You just got to be patient and consistent. Older dogs typically pick things up quicker and learn faster.

I totally understand what you mean by being spoiled by a perfect dog. Its hard having to let go of how wonderfully well behaved one dog is compared to the other. But it does happen. Which is why you want to start small with very simple basic commands.. Even if she knows them, ask her do it anyway and give lots of praise. It just strengthens the bond and trust between you and the dog. Because the sit command and watch me command is going to become more difficult when you start introducing lots of distractions.

The Halti dogs can get off. They just bat at their face until the noose comes off the nose. They can also back out of them. Where as the Gentle Leader wraps around the dogs face and it looks nothing like a muzzle. I like them a whole lot better then the Halti too..

What type of leash do you use? A regular 6ft nylon/leather?

Sorry Tick for the repetition. :) :o

I have a habit of doing that sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky098

the Halti dogs can get off. They just bat at their face until the noose comes off the nose. They can also back out of them. Where as the Gentle Leader wraps around the dogs face and it looks nothing like a muzzle. I like them a whole lot better then the Halti too..

What type of leash do you use? A regular 6ft nylon/leather?

Yes, old taffy used to get out of hers 9halty) on a regular basis by going down on the ground and rolling it off ! When she was older, otherwise she just used her paw to pull it off.

I just hope I can find a gentle leader around here.

I am using what she came with, a collar and six foot lead. Know its not good. I am starting from scratch.

Thanks lucky for your input I really appreciate it.

Right now she is following Chris around waiting for her walk it is 9:45 pm here in southeasern Ontario.

Hugs

6ft lead is good! I was hoping you wouldn't say a flexi-lead -- I hate those things!

You can get a gentle leader at petsmart or petco or any other type of petstore. You can also go online and get one. The size chart is pretty accurate.

Good luck :)