Ask Me Help Desk - Friends with Exes?

This question relates to my other post;
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...-ex-48920.html

This one may be better worded.. :)

Me and this guy dated for a couple of months until his insecurities and trust issues finally drove me away. We are long distance and it was just too much for me to handle being questioned and accused of things I have never done (a few of his exes burned him bad so he's got some hang ups). Well we had been such great friends for 3 years before dating, and I knew he was a sweet guy underneath his anger so I tried being understanding and patient.

Eventually it got to the point that I was just not in the relationship anymore. I had to break up with him twice... the second time was and IS final. Now I am struggling with the friendship... its not the same... nothing near it.

Since his insecurities kicked in after we turned our friendship to a relationship, he has said some snide/depressed remarks. During our 2 break ups he would go on a roller coaster from cussing at me and saying I don't care, then after I pointed out the things he was saying, and how they don't pertain to me its his trust issues... he would then say sorry and its his fault, he's so messed up etc. I would try to encourage him that he's not messed up, he's a great guy, but he needs to work on getting over his exes...

During the last break up I tried to encourage him to let us go back to being friends. I really didn't want to lose him out of my life, but I couldn't stand being with him. He couldn't understand how I expected to be friends. He said he was in love with me and it would hurt too much.. that he could never see me as just a friend again... that he wasn't going to sit around and talk about other relationships again... I convinced him that was not my intent... that I didn't even want to date anyone and if I did wouldn't be advertising it.

Our friendship was cold at first on his part... he would make comments like 'so you seeing anyone yet' or 'well nothing I can do but sit back and watch my life go down the crapper'... Most of his comments are accusing or negative. (hes 23, had to move back with his parents cause he couldn't get a job, now he has a 'dead end' on as he calls it)

Things were getting better, we could talk more and even joke.. I was feeling like he was going back to the person I knew before... layed back and secure.

Now for the past 2-3 days he leaves me messages saying how upset he is that he missed me, that he still loves me and he wants to talk to me. I send him messages of sorry I wasn't available, I hope things are going good, I miss you too, hugs... etc.

My problem is that I don't know if I am doing the right thing. I tell myself I want to be friends like before, but I don't see that happening... not just because of his feelings, but also cause of the way I see him now. One minute he would be apologizing and saying how much he loved me and ho much eh knew his issues were the problem, then 10 minutes later he would be telling me how F'ed up I am and how could I do this to him, he hated himself for letting me hurt him...

I tell myself I am staying friends and in contact cause I want to prove to him I am a good person, and that I am not like his exes... is this even reasonable?

I tend to play a mother figure in relationships... I don't know how or why it happens that emotional or clingy guys get attached to me, and it drives me up the wall. I manage to smooth my way out of those relationships and remain friends, but this one baffles me.

Ok well there is so much I could say on this topic and guy... but I know if I write any more you will get bored and go onto the next question... lol so umm Am I doing the right thing by trying to be friends? Am I leading him on to think we could be more someday?

I care a lot about him, he really is a good guy, he just needs time to deal with his issues, but I don't see myself with him ever again... I just don't want to hurt him anymore... what is the best way to avoid hurting him anymore?:confused:

As kindly as I know how to put this, I don't think you are seeing it objectively. Here is a little reframing in the hope that you can see where it goes wrong for you.

Let's see, first you break up with him because you can't seem to connect with the sweet one underneath that you just know is there... sounded a little bit too much like a rescue mission than a friendship or relationship to me?

Then he tells you its too painful to still be friend but you persevere and remain friends anyway... so do you routinely not believe your friends when they tell you stuff or just this man?

Which then inadvertently leads him on by being friends; you have to hurt him again when you have to tell him you aren't interested in a reunion... you are right to question this because its shades of "with friends like this who needs enemies?" Who's best interest do you have in mind here?

In a nutshell, I think you need to see people, especially men, as they are and not as you would hope them to be. You need to listen and trust that people are telling you their truth and not be pushing them beyond what they can manage. If you need to rescue anyone, make it you and if you need to challenge anyone make sure its someone asking for that. I think you'll find it all so much easier then s2tp. You may need to remind yourself that those dubious intentions that pave that road to hell, get you there when you act on them without thinking about the bigger picture. I hope you'll continue to look closer at what you are doing since you've taken some really good steps here in that direction. You are right about that's where the answers are -- know who you are and what your intentions are really about.

I would bet, if you only trust your intuition here, that you already know what to do with him in order not to hurt him anymore.

Quote:

I care a lot about him, he really is a good guy, he just needs time to deal with his issues, but I don't see myself with him ever again... I just don't want to hurt him anymore... what is the best way to avoid hurting him anymore?:confused:

Leave him completely alone, Don't contact him and don't let him contact you. Stay out of his life. I know you didn't intend it, but that was a cruel story.

Duplication of answer in other thread.

Hi s2tp,

I have duplicated my answer in your other thread too as the question is the same more or less.. Just in case you only read one or the other..

Here's my view on your situation.

This guy has major trust issues and insecurities and I guarantee he has been hurt before. Actually, you also point out in your post that he has been hurt before. He has carried emotional baggage from his previous relationships and has not resolved these issues he has. The problem is most certainly with him, not with you. I can't see that he is capable of being in a relationship with you at the moment until he works at resolving these issues of trust he has.

Trust is a fundamental part of a relationship as you are most certainly aware. He really would benefit from counseling and I mean that in a nice way. He needs to talk to someone who can help him deal with the past so that it does not affect his future. Sadly, talking to you about this will not help him or you. He needs to seek help from an outside source from someone who he can open up to that will not judge him unfairly. That is why I think a counselor would help him.

This situation is very unfair to you as you point out you are sincere and you have given him no valid reason to believe that you are anything but sincere. Talking to an ex or having an ex on myspace does not mean that you are being insincere to him. I could probably understand it more if you said that you were visiting ex's houses or going out alone with them. This is not the case though and you have made it quite clear that he was the one you loved and wanted to be with.

I think the best thing would be to instigate no contact. If he continues the pattern of getting angry and jealous at everything he perceives as a reality when in fact it is not, in the end, you are going to be put in a corner that will be hard to get out of. It is not far off smothering and you should not need to have a wall up (as you say) anxious of how he will perceive your next move in what you either say or do.

I hope this helps answer your question.

S2tp,

You have WONDERFUL advice here. As you know I am not a relationship expert, and I don't pretend to be. I say it as I see it, sometimes I can be rather rough and other times, well...

Have you read the other reltaionship threads about break ups? You have not implemented the No Contact rule which is very important in the healing/grieving process.

See, breakups are very much like deaths in a sense. We go through a grieving process, and in that process there are very definite steps that we need to go through to become healthy again.

You say that you were friends before the relationship. You have to understand that once you have gone forward you cannot go back. You cannot erase what happened in your relationship and go back to friendship pretending it never happened.

I understand you may want to keep him as a friend, but right now both of you have to grieve your losses in your own ways. Keeping contact is not allowing that to happen. In time, possibly, but not right now.

Right now, you should follow the No Contact rule, learn the mistakes YOU made in the relationship and learn, then go forward from there.

In short, the best way to stop hurting him is to stop all contact. Let him get on with his life, as well you should too.

Yes, Geoff, it is the same grieving process. There are many "Types of Loss," such as perceived losses, actual losses, maturational losses and situational losses, but the process is the same.

Steps of grieving:

1) Denial - Did s/he really break up with me, everything was perfect? Can we get back together?
2) Anger - Why did s/he do this I am so angry, mad at him/her!
3) Bargaining - Well, if I keep the NC rule and I change do you think we can make it work again? Do you think we could get back together if I just change?
4) Depression - Oh, so it is over and I am all alone, nobody will love me anymore
5) Acceptance - When we finally accept the relationship is over and we move on.

The stages are the same, but there are different kinds of grief.
See how it all fits together?

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Steps of grieving:

1) Denial - Did s/he really break up with me, everything was perfect? Can we get back together?
2) Anger - Why did s/he do this I am so angry, mad at him/her!!
3) Bargaining - Well, if I keep the NC rule and I change do you think we can make it work again? Do you think we could get back together if I just change?
4) Depression - Oh, so it is over and I am all alone, nobody will love me anymore
5) Acceptance - When we finally accept the relationship is over and we move on.

The stages are the same, but there are different kinds of grief.
See how it all fits together?

Yep,

Also, the stages are not necessarily in this order except for stage 5 (if you are really at that stage)... You find that stage 1-4 sometimes get mixed up and you step backwards into stage 2 when you think you have reached stage 5, in actual fact, you are probably also in stage 1 while simultaneously falsely believing this.

The best description of this whole process I have seen here on AMHD is an 'emotional roller coaster' which is exactly what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffersonairplane

Yep,

Also, the stages are not necessarily in this order except for stage 5 (if you are really at that stage)... You find that stage 1-4 sometimes get mixed up and you step backwards into stage 2 when you think you have reached stage 5, in actual fact, you are probably also in stage 1 while simultaneously falsely believing this.

The best description of this whole process I have seen here on AMHD is an 'emotional roller coaster' which is exactly what it is.

Wow Janine's and your posts are excellent here! I call it healing by the rhumba-- two steps forward, one back. LOL And its also called peeling the onion too sometimes. Like you'll do steps 1-4 superficially, then take a break, then do steps 1-4 deeper, then take a break, working your way down to it. Humans are very well made beings in my book. But sometimes a broken heart needs as much help as a broken leg does, albeit it different help.

Geoff is right. The stages are not necessarily in this order. However the end product is Acceptance. If one does not reach Acceptance then it is considered "dysfunctional grief." This is the point in time where the only way the person will overcome this is with professional help.

We definitely have some incoming, Dr.J. There are a few who are stuck on stage one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Geoff is right. The stages are not necessarily in this order. However the end product is Acceptance. If one does not reach Acceptance then it is considered "dysfunctional grief." This is the point in time where the only way the person will overcome this is with professional help.

I hope that is not me. I would rather ride this without that... I'm defiantely not quite at acceptance stage yet...

I am confident I will get there though.. With some more time...

It's also a bit like standing on a see-saw as well, when you are standing in the middle and trying to balance both ways but if you lose your balance, you fall down one side...

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2tp

I tell myself I am staying friends and in contact cause I want to prove to him I am a good person, and that I am not like his exes...is this even reasonable?

I tend to play a mother figure in relationships...i dont know how or why it happens that emotional or clingy guys get attached to me, and it drives me up the wall. I manage to smooth my way out of those relationships and remain friends, but this one baffles me.

No, you can't prove to him you are a good person. Why is it so important to you that he think so? The more certain you are of it, the less you will need to prove it.

As to why you play the mother figure, it may be a subtle strategy to protect yourself. The rescuer is always in the power position in that kind of relationship. But as you've learned, it places inherent limits on how far the relationship can go. Considering all the losses you've endured, it's understandable that you would be reluctant to let yourself be as vulnerable as a truly equal relationship requires.

Take a break from romantic relationships for awhile. There's plenty of time. A few months, even a year or two, of working within yourself will pay years of dividends in avoiding relationships that repeat the same unsatisfying patterns. You have a good and kind heart. Don't squander it on hopeless cases. It isn't cruel to let people learn their own lessons. You can find ways to be helpful that don't drag you down as well.

I just want to say a HUGE thank you to everyone who has read and posted to my latest question(s). I have bee reading them all and letting it all sink in

I have more to say, but I am incredibly tired so I am going to go before I start ZzZzZzzz on the keyboarzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

He may have a lot of issues to work on and he doesn't sound like very viable relationship material but he does seem to have a solid grip on the idea that it's almost impossible to be friends with someone you've had a relationship with. When you went from being friends to "in love", that changed everything and it's not likely that you'll ever get it back. But I have to say this, that you knew him for 3 years before getting romantically involved with him. Weren't you aware of his insecurities? Just how well did you know him, despite having been "friends" with him for 3 years prior to having a relationship with him?