Gen. Bolden has been a USNA student and graduate, Marine Corps officer from Lt. to General, including avaitor in Viet Nam, astronaut who flew on the space shuttle and now Administrator of NASA.
I am expected to believe that this man cannot receive an order from the president of the U.S. interpret it accurately, and repeat it without misspeaking?
I was in the U.S. Navy at about 15 levels below this gentleman's rank and learned about orders on the first day of boot camp. I didn't forget it either.
USNA student, Marine officer, Marine aviator, Marine senior commander, and astronaut all requiring high degrees of accuracy and carrying out commands of all types, but he flubs his biggest assignment yet?
Gibbs said essentially that the Gen. is a liar (he was looking for a synonymn and Ed Henry said - He misspoke?"). Yeah, that's the ticket!
Would you continue in the NASA job, having that resume' and being accused of basically being incompetent? Could he handle a space related emergency with such poor command deficiencies? Was the big plan to get rid of NASA altogether?
What's the REAL issue in this controversy?

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Originally Posted by smearcase

Gen. Bolden has been a USNA student and graduate, Marine Corps officer from Lt. to General, including avaitor in Viet Nam, astronaut who flew on the space shuttle and now Administrator of NASA.
I am expected to believe that this man cannot receive an order from the president of the U.S., interpret it accurately, and repeat it without misspeaking??
I was in the U.S. Navy at about 15 levels below this gentleman's rank and learned about orders on the first day of boot camp. I didn't forget it either.
USNA student, Marine officer, Marine aviator, Marine senior commander, and astronaut all requiring high degrees of accuracy and carrying out commands of all types, but he flubs his biggest assignment yet?
Gibbs said essentially that the Gen. is a liar (he was looking for a synonymn and Ed Henry said - He misspoke?"). Yeah, that's the ticket!
Would you continue in the NASA job, having that resume' and being accused of basically being incompetent? Could he handle a space related emergency with such poor command deficiencies? Was the big plan to get rid of NASA altogether?
What's the REAL issue in this controversy?

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Bolden's mission is perfectly appropriate to the newly renamed National Arabic Self-esteem Authority
He can arrange to give every Muslim child a joy ride in a used space shuttle

I approve of the NASA reach-out . The wacking of Al Qaeda and Taliban chiefs in Waziristan with Predators and Hellfire could not have been possible without their past contributions to science .We should remind them of it as often as possible.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I approve of the NASA reach-out . The wacking of Al Qaeda and Taliban chiefs in Waziristan with Predators and Hellfire could not have been possible without their past contributions to science .We should remind them of it as often as possible.

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Surely Tom they have more important things to do. Is the US so bereft of resources that it needs to use a scientic exploration agency to placate Islam. What an admission of failure for foreign policy. I know it is their technology that probably created the predator which is now used for military purposes and that NASA actually has a military purpose but there is a lot to be said for focus on objectives and it is possible to do two things at the one one time, at least that is what I was assured some time ago.

I concure with smearcase ' sentiment here . Bolden is the latest victim with tire treadmarks . It is right up the President's alley to use NASA as a propaganda prop on his apology tour.
Bolden is too honorable to have lied... and a Muslim out-reach is just an extension of Obama's Cairo and Ankara suck up speeches .

Bolden's error was to make it public. I'm sure the President wanted this directive as something hush hush unofficial .

And ,if indeed Gibbs is correct ,then the President picked someone delusional to run the dept.which calls into question the President's judgement . But I don't think so.

I see a pattern here in comparison to the McChrystal situation and I didn't want this to become a McChrystal discussion so I didn't say it, initially.
McChrystal has a resume' and reputation about the same as Bolden, minus space flight. He knows what he is doing now, and in the future at just about every instant. I have several theories of what his plan was but will just say he knew it was best to leave and he made certain it would happen.
Do high level, especially military type senior leaders, in this admin. Receive instructions to implement controversial policies in hopes that they will luck out, but knowing it is a risky move and figure the military people will fall on their swords to save the king? They have fat retirements, they're expendable.
McC's error was to make it public too.
Senior Generals don't misspeak very often. They have been weighing every word for 40 years, they know you say "Say Again", not "Repeat" when you didn't hear what was said, they always have a plan, and they know that every word can have dramatic consequences.
Is Bolden's plan similar to McC'c? He came to work for, say Caterpillar Tractor and now finds himself the International PR Rep. for Middle Eastern Affairs, and CAT is now dissolved and he has a new secret title of Asst. Deputy Sec. of State. And his major function is to reap praise upon people, whose friends and relatives pray for the death of his fellow Marines, and American citizens.
I am watching for his reaction to Fibb's "misspoke" comment. It may give us a clue.
This Obama/Muslim/Esteem/NASA issue (OMEN) is a really BFD on every front and it needs to be pursued. All the news media are ignoring it, including Fox. It's treason (in my humble opinion) but it's almost impossible to prove.
This is the first question I have ever asked at AMHD in 3 years of participation and I have been a Democrat for 45+ years. That's how important I believe it is!

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Originally Posted by smearcase

This Obama/Muslim/Esteem/NASA issue (OMEN) is a really BFD on every front and it needs to be pursued. All the news media are ignoring it, including Fox. It's treason (in my humble opinion) but it's almost impossible to prove.
This is the first question I have ever asked at AMHD in 3 years of participation and I have been a Democrat for 45+ years. That's how important I believe it is!

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Treason, that is a big streach there. Your nation is not responsible for the self esteem of muslim youth, that is the provence of the Imans and whilst we would admin they seem to have done poorly, anything you might do is likely to make the problem worse because culture as well as religion is involved here, and you are as culturally far from them as the rest of us are from the Moon.

So go ahead train some muslim youth in space flight and we will see what they can crash into this time. I think it is a bridge too far, a very illconcieved plan and I like you acronymn OMEN perhaps a portent of DOOM

We're fighting two wars, really several more. We can be for 'em, deplore 'em, or ignore 'em.
I thought long and hard before using the T word. It is a stretch but the connection is intact before, during, and after the rubber band is pulled.

TREASON- the betrayal of a trust: TREACHERY

TREACHERY- violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence: TREASON

ALLEGIANCE- devotion or loyalty to a person group or cause.

You can't fight wars and praise your adversaries at the same time.
You can, but it is treason.

I've seen hundreds of attacks on Obama, 95% of which are pure fiction, and many are pure distortion, trickery and fraud. This is one of the 5%!

Honorable, professional, senior, and highly decorated military leaders are being sacrificed to save a turncoat, whose real agenda is very suspect.

We forget we are at war, except for those who are doing the work and paying the price. Life goes on but not for all. I'll follow the Generals into battle. I'm not going for the touchy, feely, praise your enemy/ pay him not to shoot at you philosophy.

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Originally Posted by smearcase

I'll follow the Generals into battle.

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Will you really? Or will you just post an anonymous discussion boards? :)

My history is that I took the oath, served 3 yrs 4 months and 23 days, trained for deployment to Viet Nam twice, was ordered elsewhere twice and would have either followed the Admirals or deserted. You think I would have deserted, I don't have a habit of that.
What's your military bio?

I think it interesting that folks who advance the theory that religion is anti-science ,are trying to champion the contributions of a religion to the sciences. Also it is disturbing that the Muslim world is in the Obot's mind a monolithic political entity without borders. Scientists who believe in the tenents of many different religions ,or none at all ,have contributed to space exploration.

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Originally Posted by smearcase

You can't fight wars and praise your adversaries at the same time.

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You can't fight a war if you refuse to name your enemy either.

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Originally Posted by smearcase

. I'll follow the Generals into battle. I'm not going for the touchy, feely, praise your enemy/ pay him not to shoot at you philosophy.

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Are you saying you don't agree with political control of the military and that the CIC is an anacronism?

paraclete-excellent question!

I was in full support of the McC outcome. I absolutely agree with civilian control of the military, when LAWFUL orders are given.
I am not a lawyer so I can't legally define lawful order but I could take a few guesses. I won't, because the examples would be taken by some as accusations and would destroy my attempt to get serious answers to my original questions.
Military personnel are under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (of which I also don't claim espertise in, but I know that it covers a vast array of infractions). If a senior military officer was ordered by civilians to violate the UCMJ, he/she would have a serious predicament. One way out of it would be to get yourself more or less fired. Another way to get out of it is to go totally public with it as Bolden did (I know he is retired military but has been guided by the UCMJ for 40 years) , and see where the chips fall. If this news (actually, total lack of coverage) fizzles out, there is no spirit, and no sense of outrage left in America.

Speech,

Your point is well taken.

No truer words were ever spoken than "War is Hell".
But recognizing the enemy has been a big problem in recent wars and probably all wars. When "someone" is killing your soldiers in a certain place, the enemy (named or not) is definitely in that place and that place has to become "Hell on Earth". How they feel about you being there and unfortunately, collateral damage has to take a back seat. Was the decision to send those troops on the mission a LAWFUL order? That was civilian control of the military. Sending them on the mission, then undercutting them and handcuffing them, and POSSIBLY praising the folks killing our brave soldiers is still treason in my opinion.
Now we can get back to my original question--What's the real issue in this Bolden/Obama controversy?
Did OBAMA tell BOLDEN what BOLDEN says OBAMA told BOLDEN and if he did, was what OBAMA told BOLDEN OK?

Tom,

As usual you look at the big picture, then cut to the chase.

If the NASA chief has time (sounds like he will have), he should start in the U.S.A. then go all over the world and thank all the contributors to American space travel achievements. Why just a certain few? Maria von Braun (widow of Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun ) is in her eighties and could be in U.S.--big cost savings for my NASA funds. She's Lutheran, it says--is that one of the acceptable religions?

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Originally Posted by smearcase

Did OBAMA tell BOLDEN what BOLDEN says OBAMA told BOLDEN and if he did, was what OBAMA told BOLDEN ok?

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I think you covered that well enough in your posts #6 and 8. Bolden didn't misspeak, Obama is playing CYA and to him that means throwing anyone under the bus that put him that position.

I brought this issue up here in hopes of stirring up some outrage, mainly because the media wrote it off days ago. (Maybe the real question is--Why did the media shut down so fast on a potentially huge story like this? ) Natiional Security? What I failed to realize was that the media determines what is important, and will notify us of what is important. The media decided it isn't important or were told so by others to back off and a result folks don't know what I am talking about--" NASA Bolden Mission"?
I have read maybe 250 emails about Obama floating around out there. Most of them are pure fiction, malicious fiction at that when you research them--such as Obama Fails to Salute at Veteran's day ceremony and he's not but researchers found that "Hail to the Chief" was being played at the time". if he had been dumb enough yo salute himself--that would have made a better story.
But here is a story that is well documented. Somebody is lying about an important issue. If it is Bolden, he was a poor selection and unfit for the job. If it is Gibbs, he has to go and O. has to explain what's going on. Congress checks the exec. Branch, and they are totally silent. The press is the last chance?-Good luck! At the press conf. with Gibbs yesterday, some of the questions were- "Will the prez go to Chelsea's wedding and Where will the first family vacation this year?" Maybe Americans are tired of hearing info like the Bolden story and maybe if it is fully investigated it will be determined it was blown out of proportion, initially, but our enemies don't tire of anything, they stay on mission.
I believe that we have had so many shocks to our system over the recent years and last decades that we are numb and sometimes can't recognize the real threats to democracy, as they continue to pile up. Did we use up all our outrage supply on Sept. 11, 2001?
I apologize for the long and frequent posts on this issue but I can't sum up complex matters in sound bites like the news dudes.
I would appreciate some final comments and feel free to rip me. The truth is the objective,

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The truth is the objective

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Indeed... it will also set you free .

Gibbs is like Baghdad Bob . You know he is lying by watching his lips move.

I don't know if this rises to the level of treason;especially when ranking it against some of the other outrages in the short time the Chi-town mob has been in the WH . The Blago trial as an example has already exposed some major lying going on during discovery. I don't know if the President's staffers like Jarrett and Rhambo will be called to testify ,or if the President will protect them with executive privilege ,but it seems to me that what is known from testimony would warrant at least the same type of scrutiny as the Plame affair.

The same can be said for other trading /bribing attempts during the recent primaries ;and the Justice Dept squashing the New Black Panther voter intimidation investigation.

Don't count on the gate-keepers of the 4th estate . They have been mouthpieces for progressives for a long time and even if there ever was an objective press ,it is part of ancient history. All you need to ask yourself in all these cases is "What if it was the Bush Administration that had done this ? "

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Originally Posted by smearcase

I brought this issue up here in hopes of stirring up some outrage

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Join the crowd, trying to stir up any outrage over this regime leads to the chirping of many crickets.