I replaced my kitchen sink this past weekend and when I shut off the water with the shut off valves (the oval handle twist kind) under the kitchen sink the cold water shut off completely but the hot water was still running. It wasn't a regular flow like normal but a pretty decent flow so what I did was was shut off the water main and the hot water flow definitely was much less but still a small trickle stream that filled a gallon ice cream bucket about every 20 to 30 minutes (not exact on the time). Basically I detached the line from the sink handle area and laid the link in bucket straight down.

Do I need to replace the hot water valve or was the problem the hot water heater was still "pushing" water? If I do replace it do I shut down the water heater (electric) and drain it partially or open the sinks downstairs?

The valve is a threaded kind so I think it would come off with a crescent wrench easily but the way the water was draining while replacing the faucet I don't think I can get the valve replaced without too much water flowing everywhere.

I was hoping for some direction on safely getting the water stop flowing before attempting something like this.

Also just a side question. I used plumbers putty on the rubber seal that goes under the deck plate. I put a small bead between the seal and the metal sink. The seal doesn't sit perfectly flush all the way around so some of the putty is "exposed". Is it dangerous or toxic as a wash cloth gets it wet and it moves around the sink? I mean its not a lot but just a small amount I might be worrying too much here.

Also the same think the plumbers tape. When I wrapped the threads on the new lines they had some in the pipe so to speak. Is that toxic as water runs through/over it or does it wear down and clear out after a while?

Sorry for the questions and thank you for any help and advice in advance.

Brian.

1. too long, on cell. Later.
2. putty goes between drain and sink on sink side only. Nothing on bottom. Non-toxic
3. tape is OK. Non-toxic. I use plumbers grease.


OK, back on a full-sized KB.

2. Additional info
Basically you roll the putty and place on the underside of the flange that sits in the inside of the sing and squeeze it out by tightening the nut on the bottom.
3. Just aids in dissasembly later. Not strictly needed.

1. 20/20 hind sight. You could have turned off the water heater and drained it. Then you'd have at lease 40 gal not to worry about.

You may have two issues, if not three.
1. leaky hot water stop at sink (definate)
2. Leaky cold water inlet to hot water heater (don't know)
3. Leaky main shut-off valve

Hard to tell at this point. You would have needed to drain the pipes. Open a fixture below and pen a fixture that's supplied after the sink.

In any event, I think you got way too much water in your bucket and that suggests a broke main shutoff. There are usually three. One before and after the meter and one at the curb stop. Don't know if you tried turning off the cold water inlet to the water heater.

You may be able to borrow the tools from your water company to shut off the water at the curb stop. You may not, or not be allowed to touch it.

Check and see if the hot turns off at the water heater or at the main shutoff and open at least two fixtures and drain about a gallon of water from the water tank and turn it off.

See what shutoff's work.

Sometimes there is an unintended hot-cold cross connection at a single lever faucet. This needs to be ruled out too.

Sometimes also when you have tis issue, having a tap open prior to the one being worked on causes the incoming water to leave there.

Example:
Water meter, 10' outdoor faucet. House starts about 30' later.

Turn off water at meter. Open outside faucet. Leaking water leaves at he outdoor tap before reaching the rest of the house.

Wow, there's all kinds of things that could be wrong. I must have a serious problem somewhere. I had the kitchen sink stop valve off, the water main (in the basement) and the hot water heater.

I am not sure on the water heater but I only seen one connection (I think inbound cold) and I turned it off. I will check tonight for sure.

Also I am almost 90% sure I only have one shut-off near the meter in the basement. It's roughly a 2 1/2" blue metal "web" knob right before the meter and nothing after. I had that shut off too!

I have never done anything with the street shut-off I would have to call the city utilities?

It was a really slow process for us being inexperienced so the water was off for several hours and we emptied our bucket several times.

I don't have anything after the sink to test. Basically I have the water main in the basement, then it goes to the water heater and each sink, toilet, etc. upstairs and downstairs. It's not a big house so it doesn't have many shutoffs to test with.

I am not sure where to start. I don't quite understand what happens in the water heater is one things that confuses me. Like if the inbound water to the water heater is off does water still come out of the hot water heater or does it stop when no new water is entering? That's what I was thinking last night. I was like ok the water from the hot water heater was what was draining in the bucket.

If I am understanding what you're saying is the for sure the sink shut-off is not doing it's job but also the hot water heater or the water main could have a leak that was forcing more water through the lines and into the bucket.

Is it possible to troubleshoot this or should I have a professional look at it? I am definitely ok with testing things and small repairs but like soldering a pipe I don't feel comfortable with.

If I replace the kitchen valve (for sure this has a leak?) Do I have to keep anything in mind? The pipe is loose and moves around easy. It only sticks up about an inch. Do I just twist with a wrench on the nut or could that twist the whole copper pipe and break it?

Also sorry for flogging a dead horse but what is a sing? On the bottom of the gasket it has the rubber edge about 1/4", then about an 1/8" wide foam strip type thing and then the rest of the gasket. I put the putty on the 1/4" edge on the outside of the 1/8" foam strip and then tightened the nut down and squeezed out the excess putty. After I used a putty knife and scraped off the excess I noticed a small 1/16" or slightly bigger gap that I can clearly see putty and was just worried that it might be toxic if liquefied from standing water around the edge of the deck plate. We are kind of messy at the sink and sling water all over while washing. Maybe it should have been on the inside of the foam strip?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by op

Also sorry for flogging a dead horse but what is a sing? On the bottom of the gasket it has the rubber edge about 1/4", then about an 1/8" wide foam strip type thing and then the rest of the gasket. I put the putty on the 1/4" edge on the outside of the 1/8" foam strip and then tightened the nut down and squeezed out the excess putty. After I used a putty knife and scraped off the excess I noticed a small 1/16" or slightly bigger gap that I can clearly see putty and was just worried that it might be toxic if liquefied from standing water around the edge of the deck plate. We are kind of messy at the sink and sling water all over while washing. Maybe it should have been on the inside of the foam strip?

---

sing = sink, but I can't see the typo.

The putty on the underside of the sink might cause future issues and is probably why the drain is crooked.

The seal is made on the sink side with the putty. The gasket on the bottom is there as a sort of lock washer.

Putty on both sides just makes things align crooked.

Plumber's grease is a silicone based grease.

The threads on the sink trap are straight and they don't generally contribute to the sealing. Tape or grease, makes the nut a little easier to take off. Grease may make it easier to put on. One layer of tape is all you need.

Grease can be used for a number of things. Lubercating the inside of a faucet is a main use.

I'd take apart the drain and do it over again.

I'll come back to your other problem.

Although I want to clarify something.

Suppose water goes to a water heater in the basement, laundry tub and then to an upstairs kitchen and then to a upstairs bath in that order.

Your working on the kitchen. By opening the bath valve you let air in the line and displace the water. By opening say the laundry tub, the water drains lower than the kitchen.

Make sense?

Cross connects: Are unintentional and are usually due to a defective single lever faucet. Thus, you can turn off the hot water, but still have water flowing because: Cold is flowing through the bath fixture into the hot side because of a defective bath fixture.

When refilling the system. Try to open a tap a little bit that's at the end of the water line. Tubs are good. Turn on the water slowly. The air that was in the pipe will leave the system through the last open tap and you won't have sputtering at the other fixtures. This also recharges air chambers that may be located in the walls.


What can cause issues is pressure reducing valves, expansion tanks or lack thereof.

Usually warm water expands when heated.

Sorry, when I seen flange and sing I was thinking it was some type of lingo for a lip or something. I was thinking to hard about it. :)

I didn't know that was the purpose of the tape or grease. I totally had the misconception that it had to do with sealing it. Thank you for the tidbit.

I think I understand what your saying but need to take some time to digest what you wrote. Plumbing can be a lot more complicated than I am starting to realize.

I think I will take it apart and redo it like you said. I would rather have it right now than deal with leaking issues later on. Then I can try and work out the issues with the bad stop valve(s).

I really appreciate all the help.