Ask Me Help Desk - NT Backup Windows XP

I've been looking for a simple backup program that will capture my files, OE emails, address book, and Favorites.

I know there are a million programs out there, but each one I've looked at seems to have "deal breaker" limitations. Especially in terms of backing up OE emails. (I know I can do this manually, but would like to move to something simpler).

Then I took another look at Windows NTBackup (XP), and to my surprise, it seems to do everything I want. Nothing fancy, but it backs up everything.

On to my question... In reading about setup (before I dive into it), it gives 5 choices for backup types, listed below. I thought I understood these, until I read the definitions, and now I am totally confused. (These were written by a 3rd party reviewer, and MS).

I just want a single backup for each file, that is replaced by a new backup file, that only backs up changed files (to save time). I don't need 10 versions of the same file from different dates.

Can someone PLEASE decipher these 5 choices for me and make a recommendation? They almost all sound the same to me at this point...

Thanks very Much.

PS: I am sure you are all tempted to recommend another software program, which I would certainly be interested in exploring, but I really do want to try this first. Thanks.

From: Protecting The Windows XP System and Data

* Copy Backup - Microsoft Description: "A copy backup copies all selected files but does not mark each file as having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is not cleared). Copying is useful if you want to back up files between normal and incremental backups because copying does not affect these other backup operations."
- My Description: This is basically the same as a Normal Backup with the difference being whether the archive attribute is cleared. If you're going to go full bore in your backup strategy this type of backup can be useful to provide an up to the minute backup.

* Daily Backup - Microsoft Description: "A daily backup copies all selected files that have been modified the day the daily backup is performed. The backed-up files are not marked as having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is not cleared)."
- My Description: About the only use I can see for this is if you use it as the very last thing before you shut off the computer for the day.

* Differential Backup - Microsoft Description: "A differential backup copies files created or changed since the last normal or incremental backup. It does not mark files as having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is not cleared). If you are performing a combination of normal and differential backups, restoring files and folders requires that you have the last normal as well as the last differential backup."
- My Description: The Differential Backup, used in combination with the Normal Backup, is in my opinion the safest and easiest method for backing up a system. Since the archive attribute is not cleared, Differential Backup will always look at the Normal Backup and if the files vary add them to the current Differential Backup.

* Incremental Backup - Microsoft Description: "An incremental backup backs up only those files created or changed since the last normal or incremental backup. It marks files as having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is cleared). If you use a combination of normal and incremental backups, you will need to have the last normal backup set as well as all incremental backup sets in order to restore your data."
-My Description: Far more trouble than it's worth, especially considering the number of backup sets that have to be dealt with if you do have to restore.

* Normal Backup - Microsoft Description: "A normal backup copies all selected files and marks each file as having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is cleared). With normal backups, you need only the most recent copy of the backup file or tape to restore all of the files. You usually perform a normal backup the first time you create a backup set."
- My Description: The first type of backup you should perform. Even if you do nothing else toward backing up this will give you some measure of protection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

I just want a single backup for each file, that is replaced by a new backup file, that only backs up changed files (to save time).

It will not work like that exactly, however something nearly identical can be achieved. But first, let's discuss some scenarios for how the different backup types could be used:

A) Create a COPY backup job with all your file selections that will copy the selected files into one backup BKF archive. Rerunning the job will copy all the files again into the same backup BKF archive overwriting the first archive. This is the same as a NORMAL backup but the files' archive bit are not changed. Optionally, the files could be copied into a new BKF archive each time by changing the archive filename if the job is run manually retaining the previous BKFs to have multiple point-in-time copies, which you say you don't want. However, point-in-time copies are handy in case a file gets corrupted. Corruption may not be noticed until after the corrupted file has been backed up. With only a single archive (which now contains the corrupted file) the file is lost. To do a full restore, only the backup archive is needed. This job could be automated with Windows Task Scheduler.

- OR -

B) Create a NORMAL backup job with all your file selections that will copy the selected files into one backup BKF archive. Create a second INCREMENTAL backup job with the same file selections which will copy only changed files into another additional archive file. Example: a normal full is run on Monday and then incrementals are run everyday Tuesday through Sunday. To do a full restore, the normal and all the incremental archives are needed. These jobs could be automated with Windows Task Scheduler.

- OR -

C) Create a NORMAL backup job with all your file selections that will copy the selected files into one backup BKF archive. Create a second DIFFERENTIAL backup job with the same file selections which will copy only files that have changed since the normal to another additional archive. Example: a normal full is run on Monday and then differentials are run everyday Tuesday through Sunday. To do a full restore, the normal and only the last differential archive are needed. These jobs could be automated with Windows Task Scheduler.

Recommendation:
The recommendation depends on how large your file selection is.

A small selection may be backed up quickly with just a NORMAL or COPY job. Rerunning the job will overwrite the existing backup archive or create a new archive if the filename is changed when the job is run.

A large selection that takes many hours for the backup to complete is better done with a NORMAL performed over a weekend for instance and then DIFFERENTIALs performed daily or periodically.

Now back to the original question. NTBackup and most other backup utilities were originally designed for backing up to tape using a tape drive. Multiple jobs could be written to a single tape to fill the tape by choosing to append the current job to the tape instead of overwriting the tape. The ability to store multiple jobs in a single BKF archive file has persisted even when storing on disk. So, it is possible to run a NORMAL job selecting overwrite to create a new BKF archive file and then run subsequent INCREMENTAL or DIFFERENTIAL jobs selecting append to the same archive file. The resulting archive will contain all the jobs. When a restore is performed from this archive, a specific backed up file may be listed multiple times as discrete point-in-time instances if the file was backed up numerous times as the jobs ran.

Clear as mud? :)

P.S. *shameless plug* I like the free open-source based HardBackup. It is a little involved to get setup, but once running it is fast, near hands off, stores numerous point-in-time copies, minimizes disk usage, and restoring a file requires no more effort than copying it back to where it needs to be with Windows Explorer.

Scleros,
Thank you again for the detailed explanation!

Even though I have read these various backup types several times, the differences seem so subtle, it still hasn't sunk in completely. I am particularly confused about the difference between differential and incremental backups.

I ran a "Normal" test backup on my C:\Documents and Settings which took 5 minutes. Not too long at all. Plus an additional 3.5 minutes to verify files (which I am not at all sure I even need to do ???).

So, my thought as I am just getting started with NTBackup, is to do a Normal Copy once a week, and Incremental copies every day (or even more often if I am doing a lot of work). Then delete the backup drive and start over with a fresh "Normal" copy each week. I want to keep the backup drive as clean as possible. How does that sound to you based on my backup file size?

I will read about HardBackup, thank you. Does it do OE Emails and Firefox Bookmarks?

What I like about NTBackup, is that it backs up everything including OE emails, settings, desktop, Firefox Bookmarks and settings, etc. Also good is the one step restore. (I'm thinking simple here).

What I don't like about it, is the backup file type (BKF) is unreadable, so I can't go in and find an individual file, or transfer certain files to another computer (as far as I know). I am just reading about BKF Readers, but am not sure if they will allow me to do what I just mentioned above.

I have been doing manual drop and drag file backups to a basic USB drive for years, and am sick of it. I must manually export Email folders and Bookmarks, which I just hate. Consequently, I don't do it as often as I should. To make matters worse, I must also do my wife's PC. Ugh...

Scleros, you obviously know a lot about NTBackup (thank goodness), so now you are stuck with me :-). I also need to know (stupid question coming next) if I have a full backup, and only one file on my PC gets lost/corrupted, if I do a restore, I won't end up with multiple file copies on my PC will I? I am hoping it will just replace the missing/corrupted file. Is that how it works?

Could you please address my underlined questions/uncertainties above? It would save me so much time and grief in testing.

I can't thank you enough for all your support on this...

MSC

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

I am particularly confused about the difference between differential and incremental backups.

Part of the problem I think is you are thinking of backup as a one time thing you do manually. You can do it that way, but most backup utilities are designed for a backup strategy involving multiple backup jobs run over a period.

I'll try to illustrate the difference between a differential and incremental. Contrast the following backup strategies:

Strategy 1:
Monday - Normal backup job is run. Contains all selected files.
Tuesday - Incremental backup job is run. Contains only the files that have been added or modified since Monday's Normal job.
Wednesday - Incremental backup job is run. Contains only the files that have been added or modified since Tuesday's Incremental job.
Thursday - Incremental backup job is run. Contains only the files that have been added or modified since Wednesday's Incremental job.
etc.

Strategy 2:
Monday - Normal backup job is run. Contains all selected files.
Tuesday - Differential backup job is run. Contains all the files that have been added or modified since Monday's Normal job.
Wednesday - Differential backup job is run. Contains all the files that have been added or modified since Monday's Normal job.
Thursday - Differential backup job is run. Contains all the files that have been added or modified since Mondays' Normal job.
etc.

If your hard drive goes kablooey on Friday, with Strategy 1 you would need Monday's Normal backup and all the Incremental backups from Tuesday through Thursday to do a full restore. With Strategy 2, only Monday's and Thursday's backups would be required for a full restore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

I ran a "Normal" test backup...5 minutes...3.5 minutes to verify files .

For only 8.5 minutes, run a normal manually every time, rename the backup file each time to something like Today'sDate_Backup.bkf and you will only need a single backup file if you ever need to restore. Verify confirms that the file on the media matches the original file on disk and that the file didn't change due to a process writing to it during the backup. Verify is more important when backing up to tape than disk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

I will read about HardBackup, thank you. Does it do OE Emails and Firefox Bookmarks?

It backs up whatever files you tell it to backup, OE and Firefox files included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

the backup file type (BKF) is unreadable...I am hoping it will just replace the missing/corrupted file. Is that how it works?

You use NTBackup to restore a file from a BKF backup file using the catalog listing of the BKF backup file shown on the restore tab. You pick which files to restore. You can do one or all of them.

You're making it harder than it is. To backup: select what files to backup on the Backup tab, select any options (like verify), and run the backup job. To restore: select what files to restore on the restore tab, select any options (like where to restore), and run the restore. Piece o'cake. You don't have to manually copy anything anywhere or "read" the BKF.

The differences between differential and incremental are still alluding me for some reason. Maybe I need a brain MRI. But your suggestion to just do a normal backup each day, makes it a moot point. Sounds very reasonable, and certainly simplifies things for me.

From the articles I've read, it seems like most people recommend doing one Normal copy per week, then Incremental backups the other 6 days.

Since I have considered backing up important files that I am working on, several times a day (is this crazy?), would you recommend strategy 1 or 2 above?

If I do a combination of Normal and Incremental or Differential backups, if I must do a restore, do I need to set up any special instructions to combine the 2 backup types, so I get a complete restore?

Last question: Have you heard of SysTools BKF Repair? It allows viewing & saving in original file format (eg: .doc, etc). It uses a Windows Explorer type interface. Is something like this worthwhile? (they also claim it fixes corrupted backup files). BKF Restore Restore BKF Files Repair Corrupt BKF Files

Thanks again Scleros...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

The differences between differential and incremental are still alluding me for some reason.

Incremental only backs up stuff that is new or has changed since the last incremental or normal backup. Differential backs up everything that has changed since the last normal. If you do a normal on Sunday and then change File1 on Monday and do an Incremental it will backup File1. If you then change File2 on Tuesday and run an incremental it will backup what changed since Monday, which is only File2. A Differential on Monday will backup what changed since Sunday, which is File1. A Differential on Tuesday will backup what has changed since Sunday - File1 AND File 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

it seems like most people recommend doing one Normal copy per week, then Incremental backups the other 6 days.

That's a standard strategy from the days of slow computers and slow tape to minimize the amount of data that is backed up each day. Each incremental backup only has to backup the files that were added or changed since the previous day. It is still relevant in situations where the available backup window is short and the amount of data is large.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

Since I have considered backing up important files that I am working on, several times a day (is this crazy?

Probably, but it depends on how important the files are. For really important stuff (and even not so important), to protect against drive failure it is simpler to run multiple hard drives in a mirrored RAID 1 configuration or 3 drives in a RAID 5 configuration to add redundancy. These configurations can tolerate a single drive failure without data loss. Given the cost of hard drives today, I think it is crazy to only run a single drive for anything. With RAID, a single nightly backup would probably suffice. Or, to add some measure of protection against file corruption, add a midday backup in addition to the nightly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

do I need to set up any special instructions to combine the 2 backup types, so I get a complete restore?

Yes, a complete restore will require the normal and all of the incrementals, or the normal and the most recent differential. Running both incrementals and differentials for a backup cycle of only a week if your files don't change much doesn't have much value for me. If your backup cycle was instead a month, doing incrementals daily and then a differential on the weekends would make more sense. A restore would then require the normal, the last differential, and the incrementals since the differential - max of 9 BKFs or tapes vs. max 32 BKFs or tapes doing a normal and only incrementals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchsc

Have you heard of SysTools BKF Repair?...Is something like this worthwhile?

Nope, but I think it would have merit if and when your only BKF is corrupted and it contained the sole copy of a file you needed. That situation can be easily avoided with a little planning and discipline.