Ask Me Help Desk - What does it mean when a contractor works outside classification in California?

Without our permission, neighbor's contractor came onto our yard to do work on common property fence. While replacing posts, they busted our sprinkler pipe and dug huge holes in our yard then filled them with cement, taking away a chunk of our lawn. In addition, they broke most of the boards on our side then took the rails and didn't put them back or replace them. We checked with HOA and they said it was between us and the neighbor. A friend of ours advised us to contact the California Contractors State License Board. The rep said the contractor was licensed but only for painting and decorating and worked outside their classification when they did construction. What are the ramifications of violating the contractor license law?

Hi, Noreena!

Does that contractor advertise that they can do more than painting and decorating as a contractor, please?

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noreena

Without our permission, neighbor's contractor came onto our yard to do work on common property fence.

Hello N:

It was the neighbor's employee, so the neighbor is responsible for your damages - not the contractor. Get 'em fixed and submit a bill to your neighbor. If he doesn't pay, sue him in small claims court.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello N:

It was the neighbor's employee, so the neighbor is responsible for your damages - not the contractor. Get 'em fixed and submit a bill to your neighbor. If he doesn't pay, sue him in small claims court.

excon

Well, actually both the neighbor and the contractor. Sue them both.

But in answer to the question, the state might be able to prosecute the contractor for working outside it's classification. It's essentially contracting without a contractor license.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

Hi, Noreena!

Does that contractor advertise that they can do more than painting and decorating as a contractor, please?

Thanks!

The contractor markets itself as a painting contractor.

Hi again, Noreena!

California is very strict about who can market themselves as a contractor. A firm will need to have a license in order to market themselves as a contractor.

So, the fact that they advertise only for being a painting contractor, then you have more ammunition to use as leverage, in any case as to what you will do. By the way, decorating, at least around here, will be considered to be part of what a painter might do. So, painting and decorating are basically one thing.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

Well, actually both the neighbor and the contractor. Sue them both.

But in answer to the question, the state might be able to prosecute the contractor for working outside it's classification. It's essentially contracting without a contractor license.

Thank you for your insights. Do you know how we would go about pursuing that avenue? The state contractor board said we couldn't file a complaint since we weren't the ones who hired the contractor and the neighbors said they don't want to go after the contractor.

They've been extremely passive about the whole situation. When we came home and saw our yard all torn up by their contractor, we went and got the neighbors who were surprised by the condition of our property. The next morning, they returned with the foreman who agreed to make changes then let us see the fixes before further work was done. Instead, while we were gone for a couple hours, the contractor completed the work on our side. When we voiced our complaints again with one of the neighbors present, the foreman was gone but one worker said they would be back on Monday. However, nobody ever returned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

Hi again, Noreena!

California is very strict about who can market themselves as a contractor. A firm will need to have a license in order to market themselves as a contractor.

So, the fact that they advertise only for being a painting contractor, then you have more ammunition to use as leverage, in any case as to what you will do. By the way, decorating, at least around here, will be considered to be part of what a painter might do. So, painting and decorating are basically one thing.

Thanks!

Thank you for the information. What exactly do you mean by "more ammunition to use as leverage?" Is there a particular action we can take?

Since there is an issue or issues with possible legal ramifications, I would strongly advise you that whenever you have any verbal communication with your neighbor and/or the contractor(s), that you have at least one other person present who you trust, to be a witness as to anything that's said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

Hi again, Noreena!

California is very strict about who can market themselves as a contractor. A firm will need to have a license in order to market themselves as a contractor.

So, the fact that they advertise only for being a painting contractor, then you have more ammunition to use as leverage, in any case as to what you will do. By the way, decorating, at least around here, will be considered to be part of what a painter might do. So, painting and decorating are basically one thing.

Possible lawsuits have been mentioned. That would be the action where you would demonstrate and prove what they've done.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noreena

Thank you for the information. What exactly do you mean by "more ammunition to use as leverage?" Is there a particular action we can take?

If they are doing anything that's not in their legal right to do, then you have more things to show to a judge as to how they are willing to circumvent the law in order to get what they want.

Hello again, N:

Complaining to a bureaucrat only discredits him at best, and gets his license removed at worst. NONE of that gets you your money. Suing him, on the other hand, gets you your money.

So, do you want to be a good citizen? Or do you want your bread?

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, N:

Complaining to a bureaucrat only discredits him at best, and gets his license removed at worst. NONE of that gets you your money. Suing him, on the other hand, gets you your money.

So, do you wanna be a good citizen? Or do you want your bread?

excon

Yes, we already know about filing a lawsuit as well as a claim with the bond company. These people came on our property without our consent, and did whatever the hell they wanted then lied about rectifying the situation. So, we'd also like to do what we can to get their license revoked or something to deter them in the future. In other words, we'd like to be a good citizen as well as get back our money which is already in the works. Thanks anyway for your input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

If they are doing anything that's not in their legal right to do, then you have more things to show to a judge as to how they are willing to circumvent the law in order to get what they want.

I appreciate the insight. Aside from a judge should we end up in court, are there any steps we can take to prevent this company from doing construction work? We sure would like to see them being held accountable for working outside their classification as well as trespassing and vandalism.

If it were me, I would be angry about the situation.

However, I would also try to do everything that I could do to remedy the situation before resorting to going the court route.

People make mistakes all the time in judgement. It's just plain old human nature.

We also don't know who is really at fault yet in your case. The workers might not be at fault at all and were simply doing what they were told to do.

If it were me, I would be informing my attorney about everything that's happened and is going on; take pictures of any damage and also have at least a couple of witnesses, not the neighbor who hired the contractor and not related to me, who could bear witness that damage was indeed done by this crew. Then, I would compile a detailed list of the damages that were done; compose a letter stating that I have verbally requested that the damages be corrected and have contacted my attorney regarding the matter and if the damages aren't corrected to my signed satisfaction by a certain date, that I will have no recourse except to take the matter to court for satisfaction and send it to the neighbor via certified mail with a carbon copy to my attorney and also the contractor.

I would also be speaking with a city inspector having to do with properties about any violations that have been made that might be contrary to that which is stated in the city code.

I wouldn't be attempting to cause the contractor to not be able to work according to what they're licensed to do. However, I would also indicate in the letter, that I'm aware that they were working out of the bounds of what they were licensed to do and that by them doing so, it could possibly have legal ramifications for them in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

If it were me, I would be angry about the situation.

However, I would also try to do everything that I could do to remedy the situation before resorting to going the court route.

People make mistakes all the time in judgement. It's just plain old human nature.

We also don't know who is really at fault yet in your case. The workers might not be at fault at all and were simply doing what they were told to do.

If it were me, I would be informing my attorney about everything that's happened and is going on; take pictures of any damage and also have at least a couple of witnesses, not the neighbor who hired the contractor and not related to me, who could bear witness that damage was indeed done by this crew. Then, I would compile a detailed list of the damages that were done; compose a letter stating that I have verbally requested that the damages be corrected and have contacted my attorney regarding the matter and if the damages aren't corrected to my signed satisfaction by a certain date, that I will have no recourse except to take the matter to court for satisfaction and send it to the neighbor via certified mail with a carbon copy to my attorney and also the contractor.

I would also be speaking with a city inspector having to do with properties about any violations that have been made that might be contrary to that which is stated in the city code.

I wouldn't be attempting to cause the contractor to not be able to work according to what they're licensed to do. However, I would also indicate in the letter, that I'm aware that they were working out of the bounds of what they were licensed to do and that by them doing so, it could possibly have legal ramifications for them in the future.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Our neighbors claim that they had no idea the contractor was going to be doing the bulk of construction on our property and tearing it up like they did. By law in California, it's illegal to just walk onto someone's yard and do whatever you want without first getting permission from the property owner. When we came home that night and saw our front yard torn up and a chunk of our lawn filled with cement and our sprinkler pipe broken and the fence posts positioned further onto our property instead of plumb with the rest of the fence, we immediately alerted the neighbors. They were genuinely surprised by what they saw and returned the following morning with the foreman. He agreed to make changes and let us see the fixes before further work was done. However, while we were gone for a couple hours, the workers came on our property and, in lieu of doing the repairs, they simply covered the cement with dirt then put back the rest of the fence with most of the boards broken or cracked on our side and the rails missing. We went next door and voiced our objections. The foreman had already left the premises but in the presence of one of our neighbors, one of the workers said they would be back on Monday. However, nobody ever returned.

So, we gave this company an opportunity to set things straight even though they never had our consent to do anything on our property and certainly were not authorized by our neighbors to leave things which they damaged in disrepair. By the way they conducted themselves, this contracting company didn't seem at all like they were making a mistake in judgement. They deliberately worked outside their classification, trespassed to do the work and vandalized our property in the process. If all they're licensed to do is paint, then that's all they should be doing.

Thank you for the further explanation, Noreena!

I didn't realize that things were as bad as they were concerning the conduct of the company.

Have you contacted the Better Business Bureau?

If there's a complaint, then they will investigate.

Thanks!

Here's another idea...

If a company has a website or is registered in some way, there are sites where companies can be rated.

If the contractor has a presence on the Internet, there might be a way to rate them.

Just a thought...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clough

Here's another idea...

If a company has a website or is registered in some way, there are sites where companies can be rated.

If the contractor has a presence on the Internet, there might be a way to rate them.

Just a thought...

Thank you, Clough, for the additional suggestions. The company is a franchisee of a national painting company. Our insurance agent suggested we contact the headquarters. Your idea about the Better Business Bureau is a good one too. Yea, it was really bad. Our yard was a mess. And they had no right to change the configuration of our property let alone damage anything. We wish we wouldn't have believed the foreman when he assured us that our concerns would be addressed. Our insurance agent said it would have served us well to have taken pictures of the work in progress. We didn't think of that. However, we have tons of pictures of the way they left things.