We've been renting from relatives for several years now. Recently a large family issue has split the family groups apart and as a result there's a lot of bad blood - those who are not on one particular side aren't welcome by those seeing the other side of the coin.

We originally rented one property of theirs with a years lease that was just rolled over through the years (no signing of additional leases/agreements). Roughly six years ago they offered us to rent a larger property of theirs for the same price - we did, and we moved over. No other contract was signed, it was just assumed by all to be a continuance of the first.

As timing would have it, if we were to go by the original lease, our last month on a 12-month cycle would be this June. With the bad blood, things have become increasingly tense and unfriendly. Today we received a certified letter from our landlord relative that we must decide now if we wish to go on a month to month at an increased rate or a year at an increased, though slightly less expensive route than the first. The cover letter stated that our lease was up the end of June, but that we need to select an option and then start paying these new increased rates.

My statement here should be that the end of April this individual crossed a major line in the family battle, and I stated that we would could not continue to be in relationship with them (and I guess implied tenancy), they continued, and we haven't spoken since... this certified letter stated that I gave notice on that day verbally.

OK - now that you have some of the background - we can't up and move a 4-bedroom household with several animals. We've been looking for, and have placed an offer to buy, on places to live.

Here's my questions:

1) If our lease is "up" at the end of June, is rent due June 1st at our old rate or the new one if we choose *not* to sign either option provided in the certified letter?

2) If we choose to go the month-to-month route does she have the right to start that month-to-month in June, since the cover letter implied that June was part of our current agreement (would it null that one and start her higher rated option immediately)?

3) Because we were family, several conversations about the house (repairs, for example) were verbally given back and forth... including repairs/improvements we've done to the house. There were two-three bigger ticket items (like the spring in the automatic garage door broke a few months ago... we fixed one to the tune of a couple hundred dollars out of our own pocket at the last house when it rusted through... she said she couldn't afford fixing it here, and I've not had the money to put into it). Preparing to leave soon, what should I do with the list of items that still require repairs?

4) Another item I don't know what to do about is a brand new dishwasher we purchased when the old model that came with the house broke. The landlord looked at it and declared it unfixable, but it was also around the holiday season last year and didn't have the cash to replace it. Because we didn't want to be without one, we said we'd buy one for ourselves, acknowledging that we'd take it with us if we ever moved. For tax purposes, they charged the model we selected on their credit card and we paid them back for it via check (we have the cleared check with it's note stating that it was inpayment for the dishwasher). I fully plan on taking it with when we move because it was a special model I found/wanted. What do I need to do with this? Do I include a formal note stating that I'm walking away with it and include copies of the checks? (I also have an email from her stating that her CC bill arrived and that I needed to make the payment for the dishwasher by X date.) Do we have to replace this dishwasher with yet another one, or should that be their worry?

4) The state I live does not require a landlord to walk through the rental property with the tenant. I don't know how I feel about this - if I should push the issue or not. However, I do plan on hiring a professional cleaning service to come after we vacate just to have something that states that the place was clean when we left (yes, at this time I don't trust that the landlords wouldn't try to withhold our initial security deposit... not even sure if we'd get it since that deposit was on the original house we rented from them.) Should I push for the walk through or not?

The walk through might cause more trouble then its worth. What you need to do is document the place with pictures. If you paid for the washer then take it and wait for them to sue you. At that time produce your receipt. Also show the other things that clearly should have been done but weren't. As far as the month to month goes that would be after the lease expires. So June 1st would be your regular payment and from there forward would be the new one. Also are they asking for a new contract? Otherwise you really have no idea of what month to month means and since you want to move you don't want to be stuck with some kind of crazy bill. As far as security deposit you should have received it back when you moved or gotten a credit directly into the new place. It should have been documented.

In most states your lease expires and can either get fully renewed or turn into a month to month. What did that first lease specifically say if neither party gave notice 30 days before the first lease ended.

The original lease was signed roughly 13-14 years ago - and I'm looking, but can't find it. Like I said, the first lease was boiler plate for 1-year. We never signed another, even after we transferred from Rental Property #1 to Rental Property #2. We pay monthly and have always paid the same amount of rent in both places. It was assumed that we'd just have the same agreement with Rental Property #2, so I'm figuring we are considered month to month by FL laws? Both because we never signed an agreement specific to this property but have paid monthly payments, and because if we as family mutually viewed this as a roll over agreement from the first property, that that was only a year contract and we just continued to pay monthly.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Also are they asking for a new contract? Otherwise you really have no idea of what month to month means and since you want to move you dont want to be stuck with some kind of crazy bill. As far as security deposit you should have recieved it back when you moved or gotten a credit directly into the new place. It should have been documented.

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They gave us something that I think they are going to consider a new contract... as I mentioned above, it was basically a "check here" for option A (1-years rent w/ some additional agreements and a new monthly payment fee and notice to move term) or an option B (month-to-month w/ some additional agreements and a new monthly payment fee and notice to move term). But it isn't a contract, at least not in my eyes, because it doesn't cover a whole lot (or a whole lot would have to be assumed - like who is responsible for what).

Most everyone pays monthly whether it is a month-to-month lease or a year long lease. Without the actual original lease I'd only be guessing your situation. Have you asked the owner for a copy or how they view your rental agreement? I am thinking you are a month-to-month tenant at this point and they can change the agreement with a 30 day notice.

I'm trying to leave a bad rental situation as smoothly as possible.

I plan on hiring a cleaning service before leaving our rental home, just to make sure everything is fine. Because we have animals, I will also have the carpets cleaned - while there aren't stains/accidents from the animals, I know that I can smell "dog" when entering other people's homes, and assuming I've adjusted to the smell of my cats.

We're also not leaving on the best of terms (and the LLs are family members who are getting a bit spiteful regarding personal matters).

I'd like some advice on what repairs would be my responsibility before moving out. Here are some of the things wrong with the house, which we have several times had conversations about with the LLs before the family split happened.

1. Garage Door's spring snapped due to age
2. Bathroom tile grout replace (tile itself in good condition), it wasn't the prettiest when we moved in.
3. Dishwasher died. They refused to pay for a new one. They charged it on their card and we paid them in full (canceled checks). Do we keep it? If yes, do we replace with another model?
4. Blind cord broken - can we just repair this, or do we need to buy new blinds?
5. Worn carpet (we've lived here several years... again, no stains, but if a carpet cleaning doesn't have it bouncing back?)
6. Wood Floors in bedroom - there is some slight wearing in one area (the bed's "feet"). Also, other than the typical washing, should we have it professionally cleaned?

Also - when we moved almost all of the windows only had blinds (horizontal or vertical). No curtains. We placed curtains in all the rooms. Are we required to leave behind our curtain rods? I'd like to take them with. The vertical blinds in one room broke (sliding glass doorway)- they were sticking all the time, and one day when trying to open, they just snapped. We didn't bother to replace because we put curtains up instead. Would it be better just to let them charge us (or take it from our deposit) or buy something ourselves and install?

Why a whole new post? We are the same folks reading your other post.

Yes, we've asked - they won't give us the original. (I honestly don't think that they have it either... it was a boiler plate from Office Depot or something a dozen years... I can go buy one and just check there.)

However, DH spoke to the husband earlier for clarification on how much they wanted for June 2010 rent, so we have that cleared. He said the regular rate, and also mentioned that he hadn't realized his wife had sent the letter, stated he didn't really want us to leave, but a whole 24+ hours have passed since then and we haven't heard anything different.

Today, we're sending written confirmation that he was spoken with and that the rent is $X as per usual.

The letter to *us* (referenced in OP) that she considered our term with them to be up on June 30, 2010... so we'll either go with signing up with their offered month-to-month or land us another place altogether.

That leaves question #3 and #4 from the OP to answer.

Because these are specific questions/focus that weren't on the other post - and because the other post was evolving into a direction where people were only discussing month-to-month vs. year long lease.

Unless a new lease is signed, you are considered a month to month tenant with the terms of the original lease in force with the exception of rental amount and lease term.

According to FL law, a month to month tenancy can be terminated with 15 days notice. Generally fixtures added to a rental property become the property of the landlord. But if you have some proof of the agreement that you would be taking the dishwasher with you, then you can.

If you don't do a walk through, then you need to heavily document the condition of the property.

Threads merged.

Curtain rods are not considered fixture, neither are shades or blinds.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Generally fixtures added to a rental property become the property of the landlord. But if you have some proof of the agreement that you would be taking the dishwasher with you, then you can

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Thank you. I do not have anything written that we were going to take the dishwasher with us, I just have the cashed checks and one email from them where they refer to it as ours in the course of a conversation about our final installment due. Is that good enough?

It may be. Take it with you and if he complains he will have to sue you. This will probably be Small Claims court where that might be sufficient proof.