Hello:

Should the contents of our classroom history books be written by politicians or teachers? Do you KNOW who writes your local classroom history books? If you live in progressive Massachusetts, for example, would you want your history books to be written by red necked Texans? I'll bet not.

Guess what?

excon

Not sure why you bring up Massachusetts when the controversy making the news in in Texas .

Do you think that there should be national education standards ? And if so ,who administers them ?

What do I want ? I want marketplace competition ;and standards set by states. In my world the school boards would have a variety of texts to choose from and the publisher would have to sell their product to the boards. On my ideal school board there would be a committee of citizens who actually read the texts and evaluate them before a recommendation is made to the board for selection.

Absent that ;it appears that in Texas there is a State Board of Education that made the determination . Not quite local standards but better than national standards.

I gots a good suggestion for them .It is a history book written by a historian . He is a graduate from Harvard and got his doctorate at Columbia .He has Ivy League pedigree .
He is a senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute which was founded in 1982 as the research and educational center of classical liberalism, libertarian political theory, and the Austrian School of economics.His name is Thomas E Woods Jr and he is the author of 'The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History '
The politically incorrect guide to ... - Google Books

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Not sure why you bring up Massachusetts when the controvery making the news in in Texas .

Do you think that there should be national education standards ? And if so ,who administers them ?

What do I want ? I want marketplace competition ;and standards set by states.

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Hello tom:

I bring up Massachusetts because, due to the size of Texas, apparently what Texas decides should be in their school books, is going to be in Massachusetts school books too. Yeah - NY's too.

Oh, I KNOW what you want. Dream on.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Not sure why you bring up Massachusetts

I gots a good suggestion for them .It is a history book written by a historian . He is a graduate from Harvard and got his doctorate at Columbia .He has Ivy League pedigree .
He is a senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute which was founded in 1982 as the research and educational center of classical liberalism, libertarian political theory, and the Austrian School of economics.His name is Thomas E Woods Jr and he is the author of 'The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History '
The politically incorrect guide to ... - Google Books

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Hi Tom,

I had a quick look at the book on Google. I cannot comment on its content because I haven't read it.

I am assuming the book is an historical account so I am wondering why there are no footnotes. I don't know much about American History but I assume like all historical accounts footnotes are required for such things as facts being open to interpretation etc.
I would reject it on this basis as being suitable for historical research ( just my opinion).

Perhaps it is not such a good idea leaving book selection to the forces of the free market.

Regards

Tut

Tut I have not read it since it's
1st publishing . You may be right about it although I don't recall standard high school textbooks being heavily bookmarked either .

In truth there is a lot about the book I disagreed with.As an example , I am not of the opinion that the South was right .For that alone I would not recommend it as a hight school text.

The reason I mentioned it was because of the author's connection the libertarian Australian School of Economics ,and the fact that the author is a "historian" .
But also Woods demonstrates that history is fact and interpretation ,and that not everyone shares the same interpretations of the facts. Woods better than most makes clear the distinction .

Edit should read Austrian School of Economics

I find issues with many history books,

Examples are Lincoln and the civil war, while slavery was a little part of the issue, it was not the main issue that caused the war, but in most schools today that is what is taught
The entire issues of state rights are not even discussed

That is just one issue, IN most the ideas of religious freedom being part of the move to America is lost, and of course a lot of the areas where religion formed the laws of America is missing.

Abuses against the Ameican Indian are glossed over by most

The real issue is that all history books are written by some person or group who has their own agenda or taught by teachers with their agenda.

I am personally surprised that students in public schools have any real knowledge of American history that is even close to correct

[QUOTE=tomder55;2361955]

The reason I mentioned it was because of the author's connection the libertarian Australian School of Economics ,and the fact that the author is a "historian" .


Hi Tom,

I didn't think that there were any libertarian economists in Australia. But it seems there must be at least one.

Regards

Tut

Fr there is not a single secondary cause of the Civil War that can't be tied to slavery. What was the state right ? The right to enslave .

Good grief what a week! 1st Rand Paul tries to justify systemic discrimination at a restraurant.. .
The history books get a lot wrong . But not the civil war .

[QUOTE=TUT317;2362014]

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The reason I mentioned it was because of the author's connection the the libertarian Australian School of Economics ,and the fact that the author is a "historian" .


Hi Tom,

I didn't think that there were any libertarian economists in Australia. But it seems there must be at least one.

Regards

Tut

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Probably not . Of course I meant Austrian School . I will edit .

Texas and California have the most input into what goes into all text books as they are the largest customers for the manufactures of them. Texas being the more conservative of the two is putting a lot of time is due to the current temp of the American people. Take a look at a child's history book and you will see that the present book is more indoctrination than history. American parents have had enough hence the reason for all the attention. Check out the Teacher's Union and their president that will answer your question on why the teacher's should not be deciding on text

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Originally Posted by meyowgee

Take a look at a child's history book and you will see that the present book is more indoctrination than history. American parents have had enough hence the reason for all the attention. Check out the Teacher's Union and their president that will answer your question on why the teacher's should not be deciding on text

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Hi meyowgee,

Could you elaborate on the above. I don't know anything about how the various states decide on what texts should be taught in schools. I am not a American citizen so I know very little about the politics involved.

Tut

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Texas and California have the most input into what goes into all text books as they are the largest customers for the manufactures of them.

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Yup ,Florida also regularly replace their texts with new additions.Texas has the most clout because they spend the most on education($42 billion) with a large chunk of it going towards textbooks. The "Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills" (TEKS) is the committee that decides which books will get purchased .It consists of a mix of teachers and connected political insiders .

But ,Texas and other adoption states allow citizens to read the texts and submit public comment. Thus ,conservatives and Christian groups mobilize to influence the decision in Texas ;and liberal groups like Norman Lear's People for the American Way influence California's decision.

As to who writes them... they are more compiled by the publishers than authored by any single individual or group of individuals.For the most part they are generic and bland .The authors who's name appears on the text gets paid for having their name as the author . But they in fact do not write the books.
unbossed.com » Accountability; History Textbooks Receive a Failing Grade

The process described in the OP is not new .It is only newsworthy because Texas revised their standards.

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Take a look at a child's history book and you will see that the present book is more indoctrination than history.

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Not so much that ,but the debate over history texts mirrors the so called culture wars in the country.
The changes adopted are only mildly corrective of the trend over the years for adding liberal bias into the text.

There are about 100 changes adopted by the selection board. Most of them are things like calling the westward movement of the US "expansion" instead of "imperial " ;"Free Enterprise system " replaces " capitalism" .

California has a bill going through their legislature that would bar the changes adopted in Texas from textbooks used in California . Perhaps if progressive Massachusetts objects to the changes they will adopt California standards.. or write their own and pay the publishers to produce a text book more to their liking.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

or write their own and pay the publishers to produce a text book more to their liking.

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This is the key to the debate. If Random House and Scholastic could show a profit from the few thousand texts they sell to MA or TN or SC then the TX debate would have little significance. CA and TX are big enough that when, say IA, goes to purchase textbooks there's the ones for TX or the ones for CA or they can spend fifty to a hundred times as much to have their standards published.

I don't know of a lot of school boards that can afford their own.

How many versions of History should your child learn or should facts be the reason for the course. Perhaps the children would better off learning how so use the library and how to research. No matter what text your child is handed the first day of school you should read it and educate your own child. Don't let people you don't know decide who your child becomes.

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Originally Posted by meyowgee

How many versions of History should your child learn or should facts be the reason for the course. Perhaps the children would better off learning how so use the library and how to research. No matter what text your child is handed the first day of school you should read it and educate your own child. Don't let people you don't know decide who your child becomes.

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This is the problem. Should they study the facts about Sergeant York or W.E.B. Dubois? Osama bin Laden or Madeline Albright? There's only so much space in the book.

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Originally Posted by excon

for example, would you want your history books to be written by red necked Texans? I'll bet not.

Guess what?

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There you go profiling again. It ain't my fault that you guys buy textbooks influenced by us 'rednecks.'

I was not educated in both private and public schools to this day my favorite place is the library. When I was is History class a period is History was divided into chunks of time. The class was then divide into groups and each group presented there finding. The teacher was there to guide the learning process. Today schools teach you how to pass test to grade the schools. A true education is one that teaches you how to learn not how to vomit fact for a test.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yup ,Florida also regularily replace their texts with new additions.Texas has the most clout because they spend the most on education($42 billion) with a large chunk of it going towards textbooks. The "Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills" (TEKS) is the committee that decides which books will get purchased .It consists of a mix of teachers and connected political insiders .

But ,Texas and other adoption states allow citizens to read the texts and submit public comment. Thus ,conservatives and Christian groups mobilize to influence the decision in Texas ;and liberal groups like Norman Lear's People for the American Way influence California's decision.

As to who writes them....they are more compiled by the publishers than authored by any single individual or group of individuals.For the most part they are generic and bland .The authors who's name appears on the text gets paid for having their name as the author . But they in fact do not write the books.
unbossed.com » Accountability; History Textbooks Receive a Failing Grade

The process described in the OP is not new .It is only newsworthy because Texas revised their standards.

Not so much that ,but the debate over history texts mirrors the so called culture wars in the country.
The changes adopted are only mildly corrective of the trend over the years for adding liberal bias into the text.

There are about 100 changes adopted by the selection board. Most of them are things like calling the westward movement of the US "expansion" instead of "imperial " ;"Free Enterprise system " replaces " capitalism" .

California has a bill going through their legislature that would bar the changes adopted in Texas from textbooks used in California . Perhaps if progressive Massachusetts objects to the changes they will adopt California standards .. or write their own and pay the publishers to produce a text book more to their liking.

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Hi Tom,

Reading the above is a real eye-opener for me. I see it as amazing coming from a different country.

You people have a real educational problem at the High School level.

Regards

Tut

We have an education problem at all levels. Grade school children are being told that we are letting countries are starving and we have too much. They neglect to tell them that these countries are refusing food from us because we alter our crops so they are pest resistant and have a higher yield, But our kids are told only one side of the story. Parents wake up and find out what your child is learning.

I have to agree with meyowgee.

Our education system is dysfunctional ,overly bureaucratic ,beholden to powerful unions and generally don't serve in the best interests of the students.
The best ideas for innovative solutions are stifled by the special interests involved.