Hi folks, just checking about Judas Iscariot. I was told by one of my friends that Jesus told Judas to betray HIM. Questions arose from that line, are -

1) Was Jesus aware of Judas' betrayal part when he was picking HIS disciples? OR

2) Did Satan enter Judas later?

I am not sure if I am able to make sense of these questions. :o

Before choosing his 12 apostles, Jesus “continued the whole night in prayer to God.” (Luke 6:12, 13) The responsible positions of apostleship logically were not to be entrusted to wicked men or to those weak in faith. Hence, the selection of Judas as one of the 12 would indicate that both God and Jesus viewed him favorably at that time. Furthermore, he was entrusted with caring for the common finances of Jesus and the 12. That points to his dependability at the time, especially since Matthew had experience with money and figures but did not receive this assignment.—Matt. 10:3; John 12:6.

Truind,

Lets go straght to the Bible for the answer , (good question btw)

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
( it appears Jesus knows the heart of Judas and even when he chose him)

BUT check it out... it wasn't until the last supper that we see Satan enter him.

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

I will say this... the Lord Jesus was fully man and fully God. Do I think Jesus knew everything when he picked Judas? Yes, I do. AND certainly The Father in heaven did.
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People will then get into this long thing concerning Judas and fairness, and God not being a Just God. Or even suggesting the Lord Jesus wasn't aware. (please), I'm willing to let God be God. He is sovereign, He is Holy and He is Love. He knows all things... we don't.

I have said it a million times if there is the ONE thing that man in his natural states HATES it is the sovereignty of God. Man hates it, Man wants to judge it... and Paul makes it clear... we are the clay... HE is the potter. We don't have that right. Ok I'm getting off on a rant. I didn't mean to but this question is going to raise all kinds of discussions.

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Originally Posted by Triund

Hi folks, just checking about Judas Iscariot. I was told by one of my friends that Jesus told Judas to betray HIM. Questions arose from that line, are -

1) Was Jesus aware of Judas' betrayal part when he was picking HIS disciples? OR

2) Did Satan enter in Judas later?

I am not sure if I am able to make sense of these questions. :o

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Incidentally check out the verse carefully John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

He didn't TELL Judas to betray him. He already knew what Judas had going on behind the scene... he was only telling him to get it over with.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Incidently check out the verse carefully John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

He didn't TELL Judas to betray him. He already knew what Judas had going on behind the scene...he was only telling him to get it over with.

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Agreed. The gospel of John in particular gives us several hints that Jesus, and possibly others, knew there was something "off" about Judas. Before Jesus institutes the Last Supper, he tells them "one of you is going to betray me." Judas had already made his deal and collected his money, and Jesus knew it. So he gives the sign of who it is then tells him "get on with it." I can't help wondering what went through Judas' mind at that point!

classyT,
I fully agree with you on this.
Jesus did NOT tell Judas to betray Him, but rather told He told Judas to do as Judas had already planned.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

Agreed. The gospel of John in particular gives us several hints that Jesus, and possibly others, knew there was something "off" about Judas. Before Jesus institutes the Last Supper, he tells them "one of you is going to betray me." Judas had already made his deal and collected his money, and Jesus knew it. So he gives the sign of who it is then tells him "get on with it." I can't help wondering what went through Judas' mind at that point!

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I KNOW... right? Judas is a really sorry excuse for a man though. I mean he watched the Lord perform miracle after miracle. He watched Jesus deal with all types of people and he watched the Lord get to the root of every issue. He watched the Lord be full of strength without being prideful; he saw him be humble without being soft and passive. He watched and saw with his OWN eyes how the Lord knew all things... and yet he stole from HIM. ( WHAT?) The guy REALLY had no faith, he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God. I think he was truly sorry for betraying Jesus but not for the right reasons. He reminds me of ol King Nebby, who when he had the three Hebrew boys thrown in the fiery furnace, he watched them walk around and even saw a 4th man. The guy even went to far as to say, that the fourth man looked like the son of God. When the three got out of the fire without smelling like smoke, Ol King Nebby got caught up in the moment exclaiming how awesome their God was and on and on. But check it out... it only lasted for a moment or two. He went back to his old ways... because he had no faith... Judas was no different.

It baffles me! And I believe our churches are FULL of these types of people. Scary stuff.

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Originally Posted by classyT

I KNOW ...right? Judas is a really sorry excuse for a man though. I mean he watched the Lord perform miracle after miracle. He watched Jesus deal with all types of people and he watched the Lord get to the root of every issue. He watched the Lord be full of strength without being prideful; he saw him be humble without being soft and passive. He watched and saw with his OWN eyes how the Lord knew all things....and yet he stole from HIM. ( WHAT?) The guy REALLY had no faith, he didn't believe Jesus was the son of God. I think he was truly sorry for betraying Jesus but not for the right reasons. He reminds me of ol King Nebby, who when he had the three Hebrew boys thrown in the firey furnace, he watched them walk around and even saw a 4th man. The guy even went to far as to say, that the fourth man looked like the son of God. When the three got out of the fire without smelling like smoke, Ol King Nebby got caught up in the moment exclaiming how awesome their God was and on and on. But check it out...it only lasted for a moment or two. He went back to his old ways...because he had no faith.....Judas was no different.

It baffles me! and I believe our churches are FULL of these types of people. Scary stuff.

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Yes. There are plenty of people who can see something that amazing and never get it. I've known a few.

Still, every time I read that story about Jesus handing Judas the sop and saying "Go get it over with," I can't help trying to look into Judas' head for a second. It leaves me wondering what the Aramaic words are for "Oh @#$%. He knows!" http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/em...sic2/laugh.gif

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

Yes. There are plenty of people who can see something that amazing and never get it. I've known a few.

Still, every time I read that story about Jesus handing Judas the sop and saying "Go get it over with," I can't help trying to look into Judas' head for a second. It leaves me wondering what the Aramaic words are for "Oh @#$%. He knows!" http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/em...sic2/laugh.gif

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LOL LOL LOL!

You know I heard some preacher say once, he believed ( couldn't prove it but this was his theory) that Judas was sick of waiting on Jesus to take his rightful place as the King of the Jews. He felt Judas did it because he was trying to get the Lord to move quicker and he never thought the Lord would really allow himself to be cruicified. Judas figured he'd be a big wig in the Kingdom that Jesus spoke of and he was sick of Rome ruling over them. Who can really know what Judas was thinking? But I found this preachers thoughts interesting.

classyT,
I agree with that preacher's thinking about Judas.
To me the bible is clear that Judas was a zealot and wanted Jesus to be an earthly king.
Judas refused to understand what Jesus had said so Judas figured that he could force Jesus to use His powers and save Himself.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

Interesting thoughts. It really does explain his actions better.

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Originally Posted by arcura

To me the bible is clear that Judas was a zealot and wanted Jesus to be an earthly king.
Judas [snip] figured that he could force Jesus to use His powers and save Himself.

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So does that misunderstanding and follow-through on Judas's part damn him? Wasn't he making the prophecy come true, so actually was participating in/cooperating with God's will? Why did Judas commit suicide?

Wondergirl
I really don't know of the actions of Judas damns him.
Only God knows.
Did Judas really commit suicide?
I do not know for sure.
It is said that he hung himself.
It is also said the he fell off a cliff so hard that his bowels came out.
Also Judas had great remorse and gave the money back.
So I thi9nk that know one bust God knows for sure what happened to Judas' soul.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think the big point is being missed here. Christ knew very well what Judas was going to do, probably long before he ever met the guy. The real item here is that this was foreseen in prophesies long before, and must have been done for the plan of God to be carried out. As a matter of fact, Christ couldn't have been Christ unless this happened this way.

This isn't to say that Christ has to follow some sort of rules, but rather this is the plan God set for Him to follow. These things were meant to be.

So Judas had no choice? He was preordained to betray Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So Judas had no choice? He was preordained to betray Jesus?

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I would say "foreknown" rather than "preordained." He was responsible for his actions, even though God foresaw them ages ago.

InfoJunkie4Life and dwashbur,
I do agree that Judas had a choice to make and God knew what Judas would chose to do long before he did it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So Judas had no choice? He was preordained to betray Jesus?

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Interesting when you think of this in terms of free will and determinism. Wondergirl seems to be saying that Judas was not acting out of free will. In terms of religion God knows the future. But he does not assert his power over individual choices. If he did then we don't have free will.

In light of this Jesus said, 'Judas, go quickly and do what you must do'. Jesus seems to be imposing his will on Judas.

Anyone go any thoughts on this.

Tut

You know what. God and Jesus knew everything. Judas being part of the plan makes sense. Judas being in that position if he never led them to Jesus. Would Jesus have been Crucified? Need to remember Judas played a big part and it only makes sense that it was part of Gods plan.

Without Judas, how would have the events of Jesus unfold... Think about it.

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Originally Posted by TUT317

Wondergirl seems to be saying that Judas was not acting out of free will.

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Wondergirl wasn't saying that at all. Wondergirl was asking rhetorical questions. If you have followed Wondergirl's posts at all, you know she is a free-will girl.