Hi
I got charged for theft under 5000 on march but I previously have history of same thing about 5-6years ago when I was a minor like 16 or 17
But at that time I didn't have to go to court or fingerprinting I just had to pay fine and warning.
Anyway I went for my finger print on April 20th and my court date is in next week and I'm wondering if they can look up my prior history that I had as a minor
And am I not eligible for diversion program because of my past history

I'm also wondering if this would leave a permanent criminal record..

However If I'm eligible for diversion program, how long does it take to finish and how much of a fine am I be expecting to pay?

Will I be able to travel oversea? Because I have to travel oversea to help my cousin with her work and planning to stay there for a while and she needs me there by June so I was wondering how this would all work

Oh yeah.. plus the person who caught me saying I was stubborn and didn't co operated
And wrote the full page length of written work saying negative things.. would this
Really affects on judge when she/he makes decision as well?
Thanks

To start with, what country and State or provence/city are you from. There is no mention of this in your post.

The diversion program is Canadian.

Yes, the Court can access your record. Yes, you will have a permanent record. Canada will allow you to leave; the question is whether another Country will allow you to enter.

Yes, your attitude will matter when you are sentenced.

I'm from Toronto Ontario Canada.
So I most likely won't be eligible for diversion program
Due to my past history back in when I was 16/17?

Yes, "most likely" you are not eligible. The program apparently did not work for you - you shoplifted a second time after completing the program - so you most likely will pay a fine, perhaps be placed on probation.

Maybe that will make an impression on you.

That and, of course, the criminal record and inability to enter the US as well as some other Countries.

You can expect a fine, and perhaps even probation, if put on probation don't expect to travel over seas till that is over

To JUDYKAYTEE: thanks for your kind reply. However, I'm little bit confused on your statement >>'you shoplifted a second time after completing the program'<< I didn't go through any program (such as diversion) when I got caught for the first time back in 2003 or 2004 as a minor I just had to pay fine and that was it. So I just wanted to clarify it so that I know for sure whether I'm still eligible for it or not. Because
It seems like get into diversion program at this situation that I'm facing right now would be the best option I have if possible. Or is it?
Also, I want to know the exact meaning of 'probation' in case I happen to get that. Does that mean I cannot leave absolutely nowhere outside of Canada? Or the place I got caught at?
Also, if I didn't get the probation, does that mean I'm free to travel anywhere or I still can't due to my record even though I'm not on probation?
I need to go to Asia (South Korea) this summer for the reason I wrote above and was wondering if Korea is one of those countries that won't allow
For shoplifters to enter?
I'm sorry I'm asking too much questions.. but I don't have much knowledge on Canadian criminal laws and it would be
Great if someone can answer those questions that I can't figure out myself.
Thank you so much for your time.

Okay, my mistake - I thought you went through diversion the first time. I'm amazed you were fined and walked away but you still have a shoplifting record (either way) and I don't see that you will get diversion. The only way to know if you can get into any Country is to call their Embassy and ask.

I still feel that the first shoplifting arrest and "punishment" made no impression on you; therefore, the Court is going to be more harsh this time.

"“Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney’s office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Court appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown’s Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision.”


No problem with your questions and I'm sorry I misunderstood.

Here's info on the diversion program, something I wrote:

To JUDYKAYTEE>> thank you so much :) so now that I know
I pretty much going to get refused to get a diversion program.. what is going to happen to me when I can't afford to hire a lawyer to convince the judge? What should I expect to get
Instead of diversion program and what am I supposed to do at this point? I contacted legal aid office I'm not eligible to get attorney and student lawyers aren't available as well..
Help..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jayys

to JUDYKAYTEE>> thank you so much :) so now that i know
i pretty much going to get refused to get a diversion program..what is going to happen to me when i can't affort to hire a lawyer to convince the judge? what should i expect to get
instead of diversion program and what am i supposed to do at this point? I contacted legal aid office im not eligible to get attorney and student lawyers aren't available as well..
help..?

---

Thanks for understanding that I screwed up (I'm not sure that's a legal term but you get the idea).

I would still ask for diversion. When it comes to Law NOTHING is 100%.

If you absolutely, positively have to go to Court alone I would be honest, sincere, apologetic, tell the Judge any steps you have taken so that this will never happen again (counselling, doing volunteer work without being ordered to do so, write a paper on the "evils" of shoplifting to be presented to the Court) and ask for understanding and mercy. I would not mention your plans to go anyplace (Korea).

If you are honest, sincerely sorry and it's not just because you got caught I'd say you might have a chance at a harsh warning, probably a fine.

As far as a criminal record, because this is your second arrest I would expect it to go on your record.

Any other questions? And please keep "us" informed.

To JUDYKAYTEE>> wow.. you're amazing! I would've been so lost without your help and I really appreciate it a lot.
I will inform on what happened after my courtdate for sure.
Oh and if it goes on my record.. that means 'permanent record' that can't be erased.. is that right?
So basically I'm screwed for life and cannot get a job and etc?

I called bunch of different Toronto criminal lawyer's office for
Free first consultations and asked on my situation however,
They all gives me different stories like some told me that it will
Count as my 'first offense' since the first arrest happened when I was youth plus it happened more than 5years ago
Whereas some says I won't get diversion program due to my
Prior history as a youth so I really don't know what to expect but I guess it's all based on the decision of judge. But I feel like I learned a lot from you and I will do what you told me to.
Once again, Thanks for your time

No problem - again, these arrests will very probably only be visible to the Government. The average person (?) running a background will not be able to see them IF you express your concerns to the Judge.

Not unusual to get several different opinions. Everyone has had different experiences with the same Law.

Just be prepared (as I have already discussed with you) when you go to Court, be very apologetic and sincere - it may very well all work out okay.

Also - some Judges are more lenient than others. I would ask for diversion even if you are 100% positive you cannot get it.

Good luck - and, again, thanks for the kind words.

To JUDYKAYTEE>> thank you so much once again and I will post updated info on my courtdate here after may 4th so
Would be great if you come back here to check out on my outcome and I might bother you again with more questions based on the result I get after my courtdate haha.
I know I'm terrified to death but I got to take full responsibility on behalf of my stupidity and glad this really got in my head this time to made me learn the lesson.
God bless you and take care.

- And your attitude is what will save the day for you.

I honestly believe that. I tell it like I see it and I think you've learned a lesson. Now make the Court see that you have!

I most definitely shall.
Thanks for all your support! :)

Very curious to know what happened on your court date (Which was yesterday as far as I read this thread I'm assuming)

Please can you explain exactly eveyrthing that happened in detail to you. Im very curious as I'm going through the same thing, except my court date is on the 17th.

Sorry for the late posting.. here's what happened..
I went to the court, went to duty council to ask for attorney, and they said since it's my first appearance at court, they won't let me talk to attorney beforehand, but told me to talk to attorney that's in the court room so I waited until 2pm(my court arrangement time) and there were bunch of other people who committed something (not everyone in the same court room are there for the same reason as you) and
One of the lady was explaining about diversion program and
Announcing the list of names who were eligible for the program. I was patiently waiting for my name to be called but
It wasn't on the list. So I was like OK.. I'm screwed then the lady told people who weren't on the list to step outside and
Wait out there until be called again. We all went outside of the courtroom and I went up to that lady and explained my situation and how this is my very first appearance in court and if I can ask for diversion. She wrote my name down on the paper and everyone was called back in. there were like 4 judges sitting at the front and the lady went up to one of the judge and asked for my case and all I could do in that moment was praying. One of the judge looked over my document and called my name up and I went up to them and they told me that I'm eligible for the diversion program and I may step outside of the room. Thank God and JUDYKAYTEE who helped me with my questions. So all I have to do is 15hours of community service hours and go back to court to prove that I did on May25th. I didn't get any fine, probation, nothing. I got a letter from shoppers that morning though about fine of $500 and I showed it to the lady there at the court and she told me not to worry about it. Just call student lawyer office and get something call'recovery letter' then you won't have to pay nothing. It wasn't as scary as what I thought and I was very lucky enough to get accepted to diversion program. So those of you who are going through the same phase as I, just ask for diversion program even your name wasn't called,if it's your first appearance at the court. And you don't need a lawyer if you are in same situation as I was in, just go there by yourself be apologetic and polite, dress clean. I'm so glad that this is off from my chest now and I won't ever make this same stupid mistake again.
I'm still curious about going across border though. Since they got my fingerprint because I need to travel oversea this summer and I don't want to cause scene and report back and all that drama. So if anyone know about this please let me know and hope this helped to people who were wondering about the outcome of my case.
Ps) JUDYKAYTEE thank you so much :)!

To ajtelia89: if It's your first appearance at court even though you have prior history when you were youth, I don't think it really counts because when I went to duty council, they said my first arrest doesn't really count because it happened when I was in my youth(thats what they said), so
As long as it's your 'first appearance to court', you will most likely be eligible for diversion program so even though your name wasn't called at the first place, go up to people who are in the court room (there's assistances. You will see don't worry) for diversion program. Don't just sit there and do nothing. I got it because I asked for it even though my name wasn't even on the list. So don't give up and ask for it! Good luck and I'm sure you will get diversion program so don't worry! For now, don't stress too much just pray and think that everything will be okay because it went OK for me, and it will be for you as well. :)

I'm glad it worked out for you - what you have posted will be very helpful to people who have the same question.

Thanks for coming back. I'm also impressed - most people don't come back and let us know how it worked out, let alone say thank you!

Hopefully it helped people out with their questions.. sorry for my poor grammar up there I was in a rush when I was writing that. Haha anyway, whoever are reading my post, even though you were lucky enough to get a diversion, there won't be such thing as second chance next time so hope you never let yourself in this same situation ever again because you know it's not worth it to take the risk that will ruin your life. We all are better than that :) this is what I've learned and just wanted to share with people who are going through the same thing so we won't make same mistake again in future:)
Best wishes to you all! :)

Ps) does anyone know if you can cross border to states after complete your diversion?
Because even though charge may drop after, they still have the fingerprint won't they?
If anyone has answer to this please let me know. Thanks!