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Originally Posted by bluerose

ScottGem,
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this -

"And, at 13, accidental exposure or even some curiosity is not going to be very harmful."

I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up is bad and I'd say harmful to any child under 18.

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I didn't want to further hijack the thread where I made that statement. So I'm moving this discussion here.

So explain to me how they would be harmed? Obviously they aren't going to be physically harmed. Do you really believe that that someone, especially a 13 year old in western cultures, will be seriously scarred by being exposed to some graphic images of sex? What do you expect to happen? Will they become rapists, frigid, what?

I'm not advocating porn here. But I just find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people, of any age, will be seriously affected by seeing some porn. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by my stated opinion above.

Honestly, it's almost a right of passage in American culture, to see that material, especially in middle school. Which would be around 12-13. Again I am not advocating it, however it has become such a concrete part of society, mainly for men, that I couldn't think of a world without it. And to say that it might harm someone is just ignorant. Considering that generations before mine have been subjected to this stuff at an early age and there has not been an increase in rapists or people with sexual problems. I think it's just all malarky.

I agree with Wizz to a point. But I don't think its tragic either, but I think what harm is done is that it can be viewed without appropriate context, which is something kids are lacking. And in that regard it makes a different kind of impression on them then it would say someone older who has, by exposure to lots of other stuff, had a chance for building context. Granted a wrong impression can get worked out over time and it may not be that difficult to do. But tests have shown that kids do not have the means to process lots of things that adults do nor do they process in the same way either and for that, I would limit exposure to any "adult" things. By limiting, LOL I would presume they'll get their hands on some of it anyway, God knows I did, heck, we all did! So I think the harm would be measured more by volume than anything. Some is the imperative word.

Great point val, definitely volume, for instance the porn cards litering Las Vegas is overkill.

Maybe it's just different here in the UK. Hope I haven't caused any trouble here, ScottGem?

I'd like to throw an interesting fact into this thread.
OK its slightly off topic, but interesting none the less.

Did you all realise that over 75% of internet content is porn or porn related!
It is a Multi BILLION Dollar industry.

Quite an eye opener really

Now I really must question the starting statement:

Quote:

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I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up

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Now just what sites have they been on?
I know Googling "Cheats" can produce some iffy sites, but the use of tools such as AdBlocker in FireFox stops this kind of activity.

Remember Surf Safe and Always Wear a Tin Foil Hat.

Actually Ben, I have had that happen more than once and at work too :eek:

You don't know its going to be porn until you get to the page since nothing indicated that until you get there. But after all the emails from the "hot girls" and russian wives for sale or the close to pornographic erection enhancement ads, I eventually assumed no one at work would be accusing me of a porn addiction any time soon so it became like... so what :cool: See, context is everything. But where are you getting tin Ben, will a kleenex box do instead??

It is the more explicit stuff I was referring to. Some pictures once seen whether about sex or a serious traffic accident are very hard to un-see. I was quite young when I saw a young boy killed in a road accident on his bike, it affected me so much I couldn't bring myself to buy my children bikes. Hope that explains a bit clearer what I meant about once seen you can't un-see it.

I think they might laugh and giggle because that would be their reaction in front of someone but what does images like the more explicit sex scenes do to their psyche. It could make them afraid of sex. Am I just being silly here? Am I that out of touch? If so I will be very, very interested in where this topic goes because I have a 13 year old grandson living with me.

"Now I really must question the starting statement:

Quote:
I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up...."

I use a good blocker now but I have got some trash in the past and sometimes stuff still gets through.

Blue, do you use any kind of spyware scanner on your machine such as Adaware or spybot ?

This help to remove "hooks" which are used my the pop up ad suppliers.
Blockers are only so good, if you've not scanned your system then time to do so.

Thanks, Curlyben. I'll check that out. Just now all I can see is 'Zone Alarm'. Things have been much better since we got this computer. Not exactly sure what is on it security wise but I'll check it out.

Blue, I'll send you over some bits tomorrow.
Zone Alarm is an excellent software firewall, but is really bad at stopping pop ups from any source ;)

**** Ooops sorry Scott didn't mean to pull the thread off course ***
Normal scheduling will now continue.

Thanks, Curlyben.

Sorry, ScottGem, back to you. Very interesting topic. Can't wait to see where it goes.

No trouble at all, Blue. I thought this was an interesting subject for discussion which is why I opened it. I do think you are a bit out of touch, though I don't think you are being silly. I do believe that kids are growing up much faster these days. They are exposed to a lot more "worldly" things then they were even 10 years ago and definitely more that 20 or thirty years ago. As Wizz pointed out porn has been around for a long time. Sexual mores have ebbed and flowed over the centuries. They even widely differ in certain cultures.

I agree with what Val said about context and volume. Its possible that some children might develop the wrong and even harmful ideas about sexual relations from being exposed to large amounts of particularly explicit porn. But I have never seen or heard of a comprehensive study that directly links some incidental exposure to a harmful effect on someone's psyche.

Given all that, I think my stated opinion: "at 13, accidental exposure or even some curiosity is not going to be very harmful" is a reasonable and accurate statement.

As I said earlier, porn has been around for a long time. The invention of photography was the first real stimulus to the industry. It wasn't long after that invention that nudes and other more explicit photos became available. The same thing happened with film. Some of the first uses of kinescopes and movie film was porn. Three other developments had a huge impact on the industry. Video taping, cable TV and the WEB. Before video, movies were done on 8 or 16 mm film and sold in the backs of sex mags. But video made it very easy to play a film and the industry exploded. The cable TV industry made porn even more available and easy to access. The WEB not only increased that availability, but it enabled users to remain more anonymous. And the industry exploded even more.

If there was proof that porn was so harmful, the anti porn peope would have trumpeted such studies.

Stepping down off my soapbox.

"If there was proof that porn was so harmful, the anti porn people would have trumpeted such studies."

Let me clear something up here. I was only referring to it being harmful to 13 year old girls. I'm not a prude, I understand it is a massive industry. And I'm not saying it is harmful in itself. I do realise how popular it is. My concern was aimed at it popping up while kids are looking for cheats on the net. And again we are talking about explicit porn not just sex or naked bodies.

I completely agree with ScottGem. I know it is a parent or grandparents job to protect their children, but I think sometimes when it come to sex, they like to avoid the subject. When I was younger my parents openly told me what sex was. They told me it was a gift you give to someone you love, not every Tom, D ick, and Harry (no pun intended) in the neighborhood. I think this has a lot to do with a lot of the 13 year olds having sex, not seeing porn on the internet.
As for "accidentally" coming across some on the internet, I don't know about that. I have been using it for years now and have never just stumbled upon any. Yes, on some websites there are those advertisements on the top or the side for "meet local girls" with a picture of a girl with some cleavage showing. But I think if parents were more open to talk to their children about sex, it wouldn't become a problem.

Ok, lets be that specific then. First, how do you define "explicit" porn? To me explicit would refer to detailed sexual acts, intrercourse, fellatio, cunnilingus, etc.

In my opinion a girl of 13 nowadays is aware of the various sex acts, though they may not have actually seen them. If anything, I suspect most 13 year old girls would be a bit incredulous by what they saw. But I don't believe they would be permanently or seriously scarred by it. I also don't think they would be titillated or stimulated by it (though boys would be more inclined to react so).

So, I still feel that the concern in the original thread that the 13 yr old might or was encountering porn was misplaced. Which is what prompted what I posted.

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Originally Posted by ashleysb

I completely agree with ScottGem.

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Thanks! Your comments were very much on point.

I understand and I bow down to the younger view and plan to keep my eyes and my ears open for just how much 13 year olds know. Thanks for the heads up. Lol

Well if we are to enlarge this discussion to include the porn industry I have to say that there is also a big continuum. And I am very mindful that to some people it is all off limits for how vulgar it seems and that is of course their choice and it needs to be respected. For them, their child being exposed is a different story, I think but they shouldn't freak over it, that would be really counterproductive. Look to the Amish for a workable solution there. A great amount of porn just bombs with us and yes, we've looked at it together. Its neither very realistic or flattering even. And the stuff with men is far more poorly done than that of women too, as if its done mostly by men LOL who don't quite get it. Perhaps gearing to the gay audience is more lucrative than the female one. I think the difference is in what is erotic but there's a million dollar question for you! What constitutes erotic and why? LOL

I especially enjoy the old nudie shots of the early days of photography too Scott, and think sometimes the art of seduction has been lost along the way here. My sweetie sort of agrees about that but doesn't exactly like how the women look. He said "Its like I'm looking at my grandmother!" :eek:

So forgive me here but if I had kids and the subject of porm came up, we would be having something of a conversation about good porn and bad porn LOL. I happen to think the written word is far better and might be more inclined to share with my hypothetical kids some of the erotic short story collections I have -- they would be better off sexually for it, I believe, than looking at photos, especially in a place like the internet where the variance is so great.