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Originally Posted by smoothy

Simple...get rid of the illegals, .....most pay NO taxes....and they don't even belong here, or even have the right to be here. Not fair at all.

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Hello smoothy:

Couple things:

If your family was starving, and YOU were unable to provide for them, and you saw a help wanted sign, but it was on the other side of a line that you're not supposed to cross, would you cross it anyway, go to work and send money to your family? Of course, you would.

It's only recently that we started being bothered by illegals here. For the longest time, not only did we have the help wanted sign out, there was a welcome sign right next to it Consequently, people came, and started lives here. Many have been here for years... It didn't bother a soul.

There's a concept in the law called estoppel. It means that if a wrong goes on for any length of time, when it COULD have been stopped by the wronged party, and WASN'T, then the wrong is deemed to be no longer wrong.

To me, that forms the legal basis for amnesty. I suspect you'd rather tear family's apart and send all 12 million (? ) of 'em out of here.

excon

PS> Even though I addressed this to smoothy, you're all invited to participate.

It's one of those comprehensive issues the President likes to use as a pretext to fundamentally and radically change the country .

My guess is that he will not be able to get a bridge named ,such is the lack of comity that he ,Reid, and Pelosi have fostered. So of course it is a natural ,when passions are inflamed already ,to introduce legislation on another controversial issue.


Why now ? Because he alienated the middle .So he is scrambling for replacement voters going into the mid-terms . Enter the Latino voting block.

He also knows that immigration reform is an issue where Republicans aren't unified . He can peel off the likes of Lindey Graham and perhaps McCain to form his one or two Republican block he wants so he can continue the myth that he is a post partisan President .

But the President's and Pelosi's hardline approach to health care may have backfired on the President's plan .Graham and Schmucky Schumer had been working on the Senate version of a bill . But now Graham is indicating that he doubts immigration reform will be considered before the mid-terms.

Also keep in mind there are many Democrat Congressional Reps who have constituents out of work. Woe to them if they start the campaign season telling these workers that they are doing anything else besides trying to fix the economy so jobs can be created .

New inscription on the Statue of Liberty :
GIVE ME YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR COLLATERALLY ESTOPPED MASSES...

There was a path to legal immigration open to them. They became lawbreakers the minute they crossed the border and there should be no consideration to amnesty when they essentially stepped in front of the line of those who were attempting to live by the law.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

There was a path to legal immigration open to them. They became lawbreakers the minute they crossed the border and there should be no consideration to amnesty when they essentially stepped in front of the line of those who were attempting to live by the law.

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Hello again, tom:

In terms of my question to smoothy, I gather from your response that you'd walk up to that line, and then turn around and go home to face your starving family, because you didn't want to step in front of anybody.

In fact, I don't believe you. Oh, I believe you don't like illegal immigration... But, you don't want to know too much about it. It'll spoil your viewpoint.

excon

Given that Obama thinks he can change the law of the land and decree that the law he is about to sign, that gives Federal funds for abortion ,doesn't actually mean it. I think it would be simple for the President to reform immigration .

Rep Luis Gutierrez said it loud at the rally this weekend .

Abraham Lincoln had a pen. Lyndon Johnson had a pen. My friends, Barack Obama has a pen. President Obama's pen can turn our hope into victory. We want Barack Obama to use his pen. We want him to use it now. Because we can't wait any longer.

We don't need no stinkin Congress !
ILW.COM - immigration news: The Path Less Taken: Is There An Alternative To Waiting For Comprehensive Immigration Reform?

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In terms of my question to smoothy, I gather from your response that you'd walk up to that line, and then turn around and go home to face your starving family, because you didn't want to step in front of anybody.

In fact, I don't believe you. Oh, I believe you don't like illegal immigration... But, you don't want to know too much about it. It'll spoil your viewpoint.

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Everyone on that line has good reasons for coming here ;including starving families.
Some of them I hire. I hire many legal aliens from many nations . The person cutting that line is potentially cheating one of my employees.

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Originally Posted by excon

12 million (??) of 'em

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First question: What are they doing in this country to earn money?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

First question: What are they doing in this country to earn money?

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Hello Carol:

They're washing your dishes in your local restaurant. They're picking your lettuce in the fields. They're making your beds in your motels. They're standing outside Home Depot waiting to dig your holes or paint your fences...

excon

Thanks, ex.

Second question: How much does that kind of work pay?

The unemployment rate for those ages 16 to 19 in California hit 33.2% in January. That's one in 3 teens . Oregon's teen unemployment rate is 31%.

The unemployment rate for blacks nationwide is a staggering 17.8 %. But let's invite more illegals in !

You think the Dems care about the migrant workers picking lettuce ? Tell that to the migrant worker in the Central Valley in California . The Dems care more about the delta smelt .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

the unemployment rate for those ages 16 to 19 in California hit 33.2% in January. That's one in 3 teens . Oregon's teen unemployment rate is 31%

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So if the illegals leave, those mentioned in your post will run to grab those now-vacant jobs lettuce picking, motel cleaning, dish washing, etc.

Don't know... I did as a youth .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

don't know ...I did as a youth .

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That was back in 1803. What self-respecting white kid in 2010 is going to pick lettuce in the hot sun for 12 hours a day for under $10 an hour? How many California girls are going to clean motel rooms at minimum wage?

Ex

What of the national prison population being 6% illegal; how are they feeding their families? Oh that is right, they get a roof over the heads and 3 squares a day courtesy of the taxpayers. What of the costs to taxpayers in social services - even the LA Times will point this out.

Illegal immigrants are a factor in the budget gap math - Los Angeles Times

Is it okay if starving people from Africa or Asia or Europe come here illegally? Or does this only apply to the geographically advantaged [ Mexico ] ?


Is it okay if an individual crosses other lines [ make and sell meth, extortion, prostitution, stealing etc. ] in order to feed his family?



G&P

My ancestors four generations ago came here illegally, ended up staying and making a home for themselves. No recriminations.

And my ancestors were processed on Ellis Island.

Btw ;there are many more jobs being taken by illegals than lettuce picking ,dish washing and motel cleaning . Many a skilled construction worker here have either lost job opportunity or had to settle for less $ because there is an illegal on the corner waiting to get picked up by a contractor. Now I would crack down on the contractors if I had my say but the problem isn't that there are a lack of people willing to do the work ;it's that the illegals increase the work pool driving down the wage .

When I was in Quebec over the summer I noted that hotels were staffed by the local population ;young men and women doing the "jobs (you say) Americans won't do". That is telling commentary if what you say about American youth is true. But I know differently because I have a daughter ,nieces and nephews who all have taken" jobs Americans won't do" .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

and my ancestors were processed on Ellis Island.

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Mine were brought here in chains from Bristol.

The problem is that the legal means of entering the country have broken down. There's so much bureaucracy involved we don't even know how many LEGAL immigrants/visitors there are right now. Even one of the 9/11 hijackers was on a student visa. The number of people still in this country on expired visas is frightening.

An application for a work visa takes what, eight months to get approved? How does someone who needs work now get in? Why they would want to when the jobs picture is so gloomy raises the ugly side of Ex's question: when they get here and can't find a job do they go back - no, they enjoy the "safety net."

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Mine were brought here in chains from Bristol

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The Transportation act of 1718 ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The Transportation act of 1718 ?

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Very good. At least two of my great's came over as transportees

Cats I do not dispute that the legal entry system needs fixing . Let's start with a real wall now that Janet Napolitano has determined that a virtual fence is the farce everyone knew it would be ( a shovel ready project if I've ever seen one )

If we need people to pick lettuce (Ex's big concern) then something similar to the bracero guest worker program should be the template... temporary worker visas for seasonal work with the proviso that they return home at the end of season. This would limit their time here to times when there is work ,and with legal temporary visas there would be greater protection against employer abuse.

Actually, Obama is turning to banking reform next. If he doesn't do anything else he's going to protect us (and all those illegal aliens) to death.