The main shutoff valve in my basement is leaking out the top of the valve and I want to replace it,the problem is the main valve/curbstop outside is broken and will not shutoff. The city I live in says from my house to the main across the street is my problem and my main is a 1950s lead line so if I dig, the whole line under the street from the corporate shutoff to my house has to be replaced at my exspense 3,000to5,000 dollars.Is it possible to replace valve in basement with water on?how much pressure does the main have? Any help will be greatly appreciated,thank you

THe city is responsible for the valve at the curb and the main itself. You are responsible for the line to your house FROM that valve. Which is usually where the water meter is in many cases (it is in mine).

THere is a LOT of pressure on it... and a lot of flow. I can't see how you can possibly repair or replace it WITHOUT the water being shut off at the street.

Hi&thankyou for your response, I was sure the valve outside was the cities problem to but in grand island,ne the city ordinance says that it is the homeowners problem.I was afraid the line would have high pressure,I am thinking of trying to change the valve if I could by putting on an open valve then closing it,but I'm having trouble figureing out a rough psi of the line? And to top it off there is no drains in my whole basement.to get the water shutoff I have to go across the street and knock out part of the neighbors driveway by the curb then dig down to the valve and shut it off.thanks

That seems odd they would allow anyone to pave a driveway on top of a shutoff valve with no access plate.

How would they expect to shut off the water without shutting off the entire main? Who was reading that town ordinance anyway? From what you are describing your town is run by a bunch of people that don't have a clue what's going on. First claiming street shutoffs are the homeowners problem, then allowing people to pave over other shutoff valves without acess covers in place.

How would they shut off water to people who refused to pay the bill if the valve was yours and not theirs.


I might be wrong here, but that is something I have ever seen any place I have lived, and I've lived in three states and two countries. I'd like to hear what others ideas are. Just in case their claims might be right.

Hi,thanks I agree about the way it sounds.my main valve at the curbstop in my yard started to leak I called the city and they refused to fix it and said that the homeowner is responsible for everything from the corporate shuttoff on the big city mains to the house and all lines in the house.they did say they would come over and flag the water main and paint an x on the valve in my yard and the corporate valve

Straight across the street in my neighbors yard,that she turned in to a concrete driveway. I also called 2or3 local plumbers and got estimates and they gave me the amount and told me the same thing,that I was responsible for the bill because I lived inside city limits.the city after a lot of calls agreed that if I dug the hole in the neighbors yard they would show up and shut it off free or they would dig and shutoff for 500.00! Any help like a loup hole would be great if one could be found,thank you

It sort of sounds like an easement may have been violated. Suppose you didn't pay your bill for a while and the city had to shut off the water. Would they use the corporate shutoff?

Bet they would come in and break up the concrete and shut it off and not put the driveway back together again.

Just like the developer plated a tree on top of the water main and 30 yrs later the tree breaks the main. Next thing, the water company is cutting down the tree. The easement allows the utility to do that. Same thing with power lines. If they need to remove your gate to replace a transformer don't expect them to put the gate back. Same thing for a misplaced tree.

Putting a driveway over a shutoff valve is not nice. I'd call the authority responsible for land use and ask whether a permit was pulled and were they aware that the driveway was placed over top of a valve. They just might not be happy.

They my then require the neighbor to dig and put in an access box in the concrete.

Where I live, you can "borrow" the 5 sided key and the gizmo to turn off the valve for a deposit which is returned. In a nearby incorporated city, they changed if from "only a licensed plumber can turn on or off the valve" to "The city must turn on and off the valve". The incorporated city has there own water supply. They are the water company. The other city residents buy the water from a water company and others get it from their own wells.

There is the pipe freeing method which can be used to make repairs. Commercial machines and or dry ice to freeze the pipe on both sides of the repair. http://www.continentalcarbonic.com/dryice/fixpipes.php

The lead pipe makes things interesting, although if the inside of the house is normal, this could work to allow you to replace the one inside. Making a mistake could cost you a flood.

Water lines are nominally 55 PSI.

The other good news is that you are sitting on a time bomb. We replace probably 50 lead water services a year and every year that number increases. They all develop leaks eventually. I would petition your alderman to get the city ordinance amended so that you are responsible from the curb stop or your property line, whichever is closer. It is insane that a homeowner is responsible for anything beyond their property line.

Shut the water off sat your meter stop. (see image) Every meter has one.
Good luck, Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Shut the water off sat your meter stop. (see image) Every meter has one.
Good luck, Tom

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That's the valve they claim is broke, that the city claims isn't their problem... while the one that's leaking is inside the house. My water meter as an example is curbside under an acess plate. I assume theirs is as well, and not at the house itself.

However the OP can jump in just in case there was any misunderstanding.

OP has said where valves are, don't think he has said where meter is. Maybe he doesn't have one. Maybe it's after the valve in the basement.

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Originally Posted by hkstroud

OP has said where valves are, don't think he has said where meter is. Maybe he doesn't have one. Maybe it's after the valve in the basement.

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Important information that we need, indeed. OP needs to clarify.

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That's the valve they claim is broke, that the city claims isn't their problem

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Even if the meter's located in his basement unless the OP owns the meter the meter shut off valve's the citys reasonability. How can a brass to brass valve be broken?

Regards, Tom

Hi,thanks,I should have stated from the city main across the street to the curbstop valve in my yard is original lead line,from the curbstop to my house is galvanized steel line I think,it comes through a red brick and stucko foundation wall about 5 inches from the basement floor.it sticks out 3 inches then connects to a 90 that has about a 1inch connector to a water hose type valve,then connects to the water meter in my basement.the wires from the meter run up and out to a box on outside of house that the city reads for water usage.help is greatly appreciated thank you

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Even if the meter's located in his basement unless the OP owns the meter the meter shut off valve's the citys reasonability. How can a brass to brass valve be broken?

Regards, Tom

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Tom, our valve at the meter was leaking and it was before the meter. Fixing it was our responsibility. Anything prior to the curbstop is aour responsibility except the meter itself.

Same with electricity. Demaration occurs where the overhead lines meet the property. All wire (analogous to pipe in the water case) including the meter case is the homeowner's responsibiity. The meter itself is the utilities responsibility.

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main valve/curbstop outside is broken and will not shutoff

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What does that mean? Does it mean that the valve will not turn or does it mean that the valve will not stop the flow of water completely?

What kind of valve is it? Is it a curb stop like the ones on Tom's meter.

Does your meter have a stop valve like the one on Tom's picture?

Very confused. You say the valve is broken, that means you know where it is, why have the city come mark it?

hi,thanks,the valve is a water hose type valve with the wheel on it that turns 4-5turns to shut off,not like one pictured.it turns water on and off okay but it leaks out the stem that sticks out the top of valve it started leaking after I turned the water off to install a electric water heater.I had them come over and mark all lines and valves because this all started when the curbstop valve in the yard started leaking right before winter hit,it was leaking out the top of access hole and the city said I was responsible for the bill and if I didn't get it fixed they would disconnect my water by digging up the corporate shutoff in the neighbors yard across the street wich is not marked and does not have an access panel and send me a bill for 500dollars.the catch is if they exspose the lead line they will not turn the water back on until it has been removed and replaced. While I was going back and forth between the city and some local plumbers.I dug a 4x6x6foot hole to exspose the leaking curbstop valve in my yard,I then continued to go back and forth and tried to find a way around the exspensive fix or borrow money.I could not afford it or fix it myself.enough time passed the police showed up and tagged my door saying I had 10 days to fill in the hole or get a ticket and fine me for the city filling the hole in for me.by now I was unhappy with the whole mess so I filled in the hole, a couple days later the city water worker showed up listened to it and told us it wasn't leaking when we went out to talk to him so we didn't argue.. what happened was it froze from the main up the access whole but the main itself was fine because I still had water to house.im guessing its leaking into ground now because I went out and looked today and the access hole is still full of water but not overflowing like it was. I know the best way would be to get it all dug up and replaced but we can't afford to do that. I am thinking of trying the dry ice but I checked about an hour ago and the main pipe only sticks through the wall about 1inch before it turns 90 and uses a 1inch connector to hook to valve so I dodnt think I can get enough frozen to stop water.I have the valve covered with plumbers putty and wrapped with tape and its dripping like 2-3times in 5 seconds.any help is greatly appreciated thank you


hi, the valve I'm trying to fix now is the waterhose type valve inside the house on main before the meter,I'm trying to postpone the curbstop valve and main line replacement ,thank you

Have u tried tightening the packing nut on valve? Use 2 wrenchs to keep pressure off pipe.

This may stop leakand u won't have to change valve.

Chuck

A leak around the valve stem is not an uncommon problem. As Chuck said, tighten the packing nut (the nut around the stem). Shouldn't take more than 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

Since you have such a mess with the city, I suggest that you have a plumber come in and install an additional valve after the one you have now. That would give you a second chance at turning off the water in your house should the one you have now fail in the future.

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Originally Posted by ;

Have u tried tightening the packing nut on valve? Use 2 wrenchs to keep pressure off of pipe.

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Chuck and Harold nailed it. Open the valve up until it starts to leak from the stem. Now snug up the top nut until the leak stops. Do not over tighten. Good luck, Tom