Hello All,
I am new to the boards, but I have a friend who has been actively avoiding me and being cold towards me over the last couple of weeks. I left a comment on her webpage and told her that I thought that being friendly was something that I was supposed to do-- seeing as how we are friends and neighbors.

Occasionally, when I see that her window is open I will simply pass by and say hello. She claims that she feels "trapped in her apt" because I stop by for 5 seconds to say hello? She claims I do this everyday but that is so far from the truth for a multitude of reasons:

1.) She is hardly ever home and stays over with her boyfriend most days
2.) I work and go to school all week so when I get home I go straight in to eat or my boyfriend and I go out to eat. I hardly ever just say hi if I am tired and hungry.
3.) She claims that all last week she saw me everyday which is impossible because I worked the Monday (all day) and then Tuesday through Thursday Night I was out of town for Thanksgiving-- Friday I worked all day and crashed early without leaving my apt and Saturday I worked all day then went out to a movie with my boyfriend. From Monday morning through Sunday Evening I have been completely busy and haven't even see her!

If I stopped over all the time then I could see where she was getting this, but it is a very rare occasion when I see the window open and haven't talked to her in a while that I say hello. I didn't think this was a problem but she says she "feels on edge" about it and that she has said something to me before-- which she has, but I really feel like I have been doing my own thing and haven't had time to bug her.

I feel as though any little friendly thing that I do makes her uncomfortable and I am beginning to understand why the girl doesn't have many other friends that she stays in contact with.

The other thing is that whenever she is having a crisis of some sort (boyfriend breakup or school issue) she gets drunk and comes over at the wee hours of the morning to cry and ask for help, but won't talk about anything relating to the crisis and then takes off to her apt where usually I am afraid she is going to hurt herself, but I am afraid to go over there for fear that she will claim that I am not letting her "breathe".

She always comes over unexpectedly to borrow things and normally I let her because I usually think that she would do the same thing for me if I really needed it, but the one time I accidentally locked my keys in a friends apt (the friend then went out of town leaving me out of a place to sleep) she got her panties in a bunch when I asked if I could crash on her couch for one night. I have never asked anything of her and it really hurt my feelings that she got so touchy when I really needed something. It made me regret asking the minute I did it, but I was hoping for some sympathy not cold annoyance.

So now she is telling me (despite the fact that I hardly ever see her and she is never home) that I am smothering her again. I really haven't done a thing but since we work together she HAS to see me. Since I got her the job I should think that she wouldn't mind working with me, but honestly she seems to mind anything I do that doesn't constitute leaving her alone. I think she wants to have this friendship be on her terms as opposed to working with me on it. She wants to come over whenever she wants, but is opposed to me excercising the same freedom.

The sad thing is that whenever the world gets cold and mean to her she always comes running back to me and I have never complained about all of her crisises before but now I am really tempted to just let her stand there and deal with it herself because I am tired of being there whenever she needs or wants something, but every day kindnesses are seen as smothering by her.

Her distortion of the facts is also disturbing. I have been either working or out of town a good majority of the time we have been friends and don't really have time to say hello to her all the time, but when I think about it occasionally I do. By occasionally I mean maybe once a week-- if that-- if she is home perhaps twice. I cannot recall a single week where I have gone over days in a row.

Anyway, since I work with this girl I am required to be friendly at least outwardly towards her but honestly her cold behavior has soured me on our friendship. Anyone who sees me as a pest makes me feel rejected and I don't want to be where I am not appreciated.

My question is: Is it smothering to simply stop by an window that is open and wave have a brief greeting maybe once a week to a friend that is your neighbor, and co-worker? We don't hang out outside of work and we don't go to school together. She is 33 and I am 23...

I don't email her or leave any other comments except the occasional "I hope you are having a good day" on her webpage.

She thinks I have this insatiable need for her attention but I really have a busy schedule and a life of my own-- so I don't know where she is getting this but it is really frustrating me.

Sorry for the long rant, but I hope that someone on here can let me in on what is going on here. I think that she is just being paranoid and overly-sensative-- or maybe her definition of friendship is completely different than mine. My boyfriend thinks she just uses me and then whenever I want to be friendly she blows me off because she "wants her space". I am beginning to understand where he is coming from and honestly have actively participated in making myself scarce over the last 3 weeks in order to avoid her behavior, but she continues to be cold towards me.

I don't know how else I can avoid being intrusive-- how can I avoid bugging her if I never see her? How can she claim that I am smothering her when we work together at least once a week, but after that have absolutely no contact?

This is just baffling to me and I am hoping that maybe some of you can help shed some light on this problem of mine. It is very bothersome and frustrating.

Thank you for reading and thank you for your time.

-Kitty

It sincerely sounds like this "Friend" is using you - and that you're on the right track by trying to avoid her. Although you can't entirely avoid her at work or in the apartment building that it sounds like you share, you CAN make it very plain to her that you aren't her "sounding board" any more. When she shows up and wants to borrow something - or to cry on your shoulder when she's been drinking - tell her you're too busy to smother her right now and close the door in her face. If nothing else, you'll let her know in no uncertain terms that you aren't going to let her bad mouth you any more.

As to the rest of those things you stated, friends don't treat friends the way she's treating you - and the fact that she's 10 years older means that she should have already realized this long ago. Sounds to me like she is too immature to know what true friendship is and only sees "friends" as those who can do something for HER... (And trust me, I work for a woman who is like this at 45. They DON'T get better with age!)

You mention that you got her current job for her - or at least put in a good word at your place of employment on her behalf. If she's spreading rumors about you at work, you may want to speak to your employer and see whether your "putting in a good word" is going to backfire on you, as both myself and someone I "put in a good word for" got fired from a chambermaid position when she was caught stealing from one of the rooms. (I didn't know she was a thief when I spoke to the boss about her, but it certainly didn't look good that I would have talked him into hiring someone who would steal from the customers... )

Good luck in getting this friend to go "smother" herself!

I'm not sure what led you to think you were friends, but you are not.

You might be neighbours...
You might be co-workers...

But you're not friends... Take the hint and stay out of her life.

Thank you for ya'll's advice and I agree with you on all of it. I just needed that little bit of reinforcement to help me continue doing what I think I should and that is avoiding her. Oh yes, and also in her email accusing me of being smothering she said, "You're beautiful, but I don't want to see your face every day..."-- That sealed the deal for me-- I mean who wants to be friends with someone who says that kind of stuff? No bueno!

This doesn't sound like friendship to me. Neighbours, co-workers maybe but not friends. Also I suspect she may be suffering an illness, depression perhaps. Not wanting to see you and then wanting to see you smacks of some kind of personality disorder. I think you may be right to worry about her being on her own and hurting herself. Is there a family member of hers you could have a chat with, her boyfriend perhaps. Let someone close to her know of your fears then back off because you may be unintentionally adding to her emotional problems.

Yes - leave her alone - IF she was a friend she'd make a big effort to make things right. But I doubt it here.

It sounds like the girl is using you for anything she can get but the moment you need something back she has no interest. You should be happy to remove this one from your life.

Just wanted to update you, and thank y ou so much for your advice and comments. They are very much appreciated and have helped me gain perspective on this situation. I had a feeling that Jen has been using me and then being cold whenever I am not receptive to her wants for quite some time. I have also been talking to friends and family members about this situation and they all have said essentially the same thing: stay away. I intend to do just that.

I also wanted to tell you about a semi-escalation in this situation and get ya'll's opinion. So yesterday I am working and Jen comes in to make her VIP calls for the week. It is customary for retail workers at my boutique to have a long list of people they are required to call each week. So I am working (I cashier) and Jen comes in. I am in charge of clocking people in and out of work-- so she comes in without so much as hello and demands that I clock her in. I was with a customer at the time, so I politely said I would love to clock her in as soon as I finish the transaction. She scoffed at this and said, "but can't you do it now? I have a lot of things to do and I need to get this call-list out of the way!!". I simply said no, that I have to put the customers first and if she would like to discuss this further she can do it after I am done here and then proceeded to apologize to the customer and finish the transaction.

After I clocked her in Jen simply stormed off. I had come into work that day feeling a little bummed about this whole thing and before I clocked in my friend Mallory (another co-worker) had seen me outside having a smoke and asked me why I looked so sad. I just said that this situation has been bugging me and she agreed along the same lines as ya'll's posts here that I should just ignore Jen because she is flaky and not worth my time. Essentially that she is a user and that I am too good of a person to take this laying down.

So-- back to the working. I was cleaning the counter area and Jen comes storming up to the front. She slammed the VIP notebook on the desk and threw some papers at me and screamed, "when I say I want space I don't need you to go F-ing talking about it other co-workers!!!" . I was so stunned, and disturbed that I just stared at her. I didn't want to get into an argument in the middle of work and felt like this outburst was completely unnecessary.

It gets better-- my manager saw her do this and then gave me a talk later about "bringing personal drama" into work!! I simply said that I have no desire to sour the workplace but I am not the one creating a scene at work and that I said nothing to further escalate the situation, but I can't have her flying off the handle at me at work about this. She doesn't want to talk to me outside of work, and she seems uncomfortable working with me because I have to exist in the workplace-- so blowing up at me at work is completely unwarranted and I would appreciate it (I said this to my manager) if Jade could talk to Jen about this whenever she works her next shift. So the threat of a write-up is out there should either one of us talk about this at work either to each other or other people.

This annoyed me because I am not the one who brought all of this into work. I was not on the clock when I talked to Mallory and I know that she is not one prone to be loose-lipped about something like this-- so it had to be Jen who talked to Jade and Jen who decided to be a crazy flake and create a scene and it seems like I am being punished first for a situation that I did not create.

I am not the one with a problem here. I am more than happy to leave Jen alone because she doesn't contribute anything positive to my life at the moment, and it appears that all she is interested in is taking and never giving. So after work I sent her an email on myspace and let her know that under no circumstances was she ever to behave that way to me at work again. I also stated firmly, but politely that her behavior towards me was unacceptable and that whatever anxieties and issues she has going on in her life are her problem and she should stop venting her frustrations on me because I am not going out of my way to be a pain to her. I am just trying to observe her wishes-- that's all. I don't want to be where I am not appreciated and I don't like it that she insists on creating a problem or imagining offenses where there are none.

So I stood up for myself finally and feel pretty good about it. I will not respond to anything else she has to say via email or whatever and let her stew in her own negative juices.

The reason I posted this is that I want to make sure that I have done the right thing. I would like ya'll's opinion and while I am 85% sure that I have done what is right-- I don't want this to backfire at work or wreck whatever semblance of a friendship that Jen and I have. However, I feel like I am not the one destroying things here.

Was it a faux-pas to tell Mallory what was bugging me?

Am I right to feel like I am the one being punished at work when I am not the one creating drama?

What should I do if she blows up at me again at work? I don't want to get written up when she can't control herself-- especially if she claims at any point that I provoked her or something when it seems that even when I leave her alone she insists on creating drama out of situation that doesn't really exist. It is impossible to smother someone if you make an active effort to avoid them!

So please let me know and like I said before I will evaluate ya'll's responses carefully.

Once again, thank you so much for your consideration and time to answer my problems.

Drama stinks!

Sincerely,
Kitty

Kitty,

I'm sorry you are having to put up with this at work. I recommend having a chat with your boss and perhaps explain that you have chosen to ignore her but she is the one who is making things difficult.

Is there any chance you and her can have a chat, try to find out where all this animosity is coming from and then agree to drop it. If necessary, promise to keep your distance from now on. Whatever makes the working relationship work. Right?

At least you will know you tried. Sound like this girl has a lot of problems to work out. If you keep your distance then at least you'll know it is her problems, and not you that is doing anything wrong.

Sometimes things can be so confusing that we begin to doubt our own words, actions and behaviour. The only way to make sure it is her own problems that are causing her to behave this way is to give her a wide berth.

It doesn't sound like she's really interested in any kind of friendship with you, regardless of how casual. That said, I'd just let her be, which is obviously what she wants. There's no law that says you have to be friendly with her just because she's your neighbor. If she comes over at the wee hours of the morning drunk because of her latests "crisis", just simply say "I'm sorry but it's really late. Can this wait until tomorrow, please?" Then leave her to deal with it. Don't worry about her "hurting herself" or accept any guilt for her actions. You are not responsible for her problems nor are you responsible for how she chooses to deal with them.

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Originally Posted by PinkParisKitty

So please let me know and like I said before I will evaluate ya'll's responses carefully.

Once again, thank you so much for your consideration and time to answer my problems.

Drama stinks!

Sincerely,
Kitty

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It might be a good idea to write a formal letter to your boss and cc it to Jen (via ordinary snail-mail.) Be sure to type it using a professional-type template from Microsoft Word or similar word-processing software and keep both hard and electronic copies for yourself. Word it something to the effect that "Dear (Mr./Mrs./, etc... ), In response to our conversation on (date when incident occurred), I wish to reiterate that I highly resent Jennifer(Smith's) [be sure to use her full name] conduct towards me on the aforementioned date. Please understand that, without any provocation whatsoever, she stormed up to me, as you witnessed, and yelled "when I say I want space I don't need you to go f-ing talking about to it other co-workers" [be sure to include the whole expletive, no matter how potentially offensive it may be.] As you are aware, this behavior occurred in the presence of other employees and customers and was totally inappropriate and unnecessary. There was certainly ample opportunity during the day in question for Ms. (Smith) to speak to me privately and discretely about any problem she may have been experiencing. Also be advised that part of Ms. (Smith's) motivation may have been generated by the fact that, at the start of the shift on the day in question, she was upset with me because I had to require her to wait a few seconds before clocking her in as I was speaking with a customer when she arrived to be clocked in to begin her shift. Be further advised that, should Ms. (Smith) behave towards me in a similar matter again while on duty I will report the incident to the appropriate authorities." Obviously you don't have to use my exact wording but be sure to include all the ideas. Be factual, impersonal and emotion-free when you write it. By putting it in writing and placing the onus on Jen, it becomes that much harder for your boss to blame you and attempt to discipline you. And, if (s)he does, you have this letter to back yourself up with. Furthermore, by including a veiled, mild threat to your boss (about reporting any further incidents and getting outside authorities involved, which you can bet (s)he doesn't want), it gives your boss an incentive not to attempt to discipline you as the incident wasn't your fault.

I agree with all of the above. If she continues to have these outbursts she could eventually be terminated.

Hello Everyone once again: This is a continuation of another thread, but with a different question and/or an update at the end. Any advice would be appreciated. --K
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Bonjour All,
Once again, I would like to thank you all for your answers to my question! It is very nice of you to take time out of your day to help.

I talked to my manager about this situation and she has assured me that she has had a discussion with Jen to let her know that behavior like the one described is intolerable and that she will write her up if the behavior continues. I am grateful that something has been done, but a little bit worried that Jen and my manager are friends outside of work.

They go out for drinks and get together on a regular basis as far as I know. They make no effort to include me in this, but as things stand I am OK with this. On another interesting note Jen isn't very pleasant to me at work now.

I have decided to "kill her with kindness" and be extra sweet to her. She has been very confused about why I don't return her hostility and once when I thought she was a customer at the front of the store I greeted her with a smile, and she gave me the look of death.

Interestingly enough, I was asked by my manager at work to call all of the employees to let them know that there wasn't going to be the scheduled meeting yesterday evening. When I called Jen and identified myself she said to me, "don't call here" and hung up. I was at work at the time and was not calling on personal business but by request of my manager.

So I told Jade what happened and she took the opportunity to call Jen back and emphasize that her behavior to me over the phone just then was completely unprofessional and that I was calling on the store's behalf-- not to just chat or annoy her.

I was satisfied that Jade could see that this situation's escalation to the work environment was not my fault. My friend Mallory started talking about a myspace comment that I left on her page concerning the incident and I quickly told her that I am not to talk about "nothing" at work because it could get me fired.

She caught on and I told her that we can talk outside of work, but I don't want the manager over-hearing any mention of said situation-- I just can't afford to lose my job over this nonsense.

Jen also deleted her me from her "friends" list on myspace after sending me a horribly offensive email basically belittling me and telling me that our friendship was over even after in the last email I ever sent to her I told her in no uncertain terms that I could not deal with her drama and that she is too old to be behaving like this. I ended the friendship and all she wanted to do was sling arrows. Her response was an abusive tirade calling me "stupid" and "petty" and that I negated her feelings (which in my opinion came out of no where- I was simply being friendly).

She even dragged her boyfriend into the mix telling me not to post things on his page even though he and I are friends independently of her-- the both of them deleted their myspace which I am happy about because I blocked the account that she did have. Now I don't know if she is still on myspace with a different page, but her behavior is bordering on stalker-esque.

She continues to insist that I am out to cause her stress and make her feel "trapped". I haven't spoken to her, save for work business and then this unfortunate business on the phone yesterday. So I can't imagine how she is coming to the conclusion that I am out to make her work-life hell and that she can't stand living in the same apt complex when I don't ever go over anymore and haven't in 3 weeks.

So anyway-- this situation is somewhat resolved except for the fact that I have to see Jen at work, but I think that my kindness idea is the best route. Others at work are now remarking that they are amazed that I can be so nice given that she continues to treat me like crud (ignoring me, making snide comments, and bragging on herself in front of me) at work.

Just wanted to update you on how this thing is going and make sure I am on the right track. All of my family and friends have come to the conclusion that I am better off without this fake friend and user.

I have toyed with the idea of sending her a card at christmas and letting her know in the message that there is no reason to be unpleasant at work and "in the spirit of the season" we should put this whole messy business behind us and try to resurrect our friendship.

I don't know if I am being a pansy or maybe I am just lonely (my boyfriend is away on business and finals are stressing me out as well as my impending graduation) but I don't like having negative vibes constantly assaulting me at work and aside from quitting or sending a missive to patch things up via email I can't see this thing getting any better, but instead worse.

However, I have talked myself out of the christmas card idea given the fact that even friendly advances seem to be unwanted and any hope of salvaging whatever this relationship was (it seems it wasn't friendship, but it certainly felt like one there for a while, but maybe I am deluding myself) would make me feel better. I don't want to apologize because I don't feel like I have done anything but be friendly and try to be there for her when she needed me. I just got this in turn, and I don't want it to make me bitter so I am trying to think of positive "higher-minded" ways of resolving it to myself and making it known to her that I honestly thought of her as a friend and was only trying to do what I believed that friends are supposed to.

I had no idea it would come to this and it is kind of depressing. Please let me know what you think of my email/card idea and what you think I should do. Should I scrap the email idea in favor of complete isolation for Jen and just leave things the way they are? Or should I send the email to make myself feel better and then forget about any kind of response and/or block her email after I have sent it? I really want to send the email to resolve it to myself and then let the chips fall where they may. I just don't want to do any more damage to myself in the process personally or professionally. I am a little bit torn and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Kitty

You have made great progress, Kitty. And have handled yourself amazingly well in some really big turmoil too. I think you are 90% there too. It is hard to lose a friend and especially so in the manner you have ---I send my condolences for your loss.

She is a sick person... and I don't mean sick bad, I mean sick dysfunctional. What Al-Anon taught me years ago about sick people (in Al-Anon it pertains to alcoholics but its relevant to all dysfunctional people as a principle) is to... let go with love. And it sounds like you mostly have. Except for the letting go completely part.

I support you continuing to only deal with her only at work and only when necessary in as polite a businesslike manner as possible, which you have been admirably doing. That is the first part of what Al-Anon says, the love part so to speak. And you got it too!

However, here is the harder part. Let go means to let go of EVERYTHING ELSE. It means no further contact, especially no Christmas card, no further discussion of her, and no thoughts of her either. It means you simply closed the door and there is remains, closed, completely closed (except for the limited contact at work). This is not unkind so please don't think of it that way. This action is not only essential to your well being (which is kind to you) but its part of what is needed for the continued success of this plan too. If you don't let go and become like a "sheer cliff" to her, she will find a way to make another grappling hook of her sick ways grab on. And it will begin all over again. And how kind is that? So my advice is to cultivate being a sheer cliff without guilt. Learn to say to yourself (especially LOL) and others -- "no comment, I think I've said enough!." You will eventually train yourself to not think of it much like when you leave this job and stop thinking about it then too.

To feel any guilty over someone being sick is not proper or to remain unable to make yourself let go completely out of guilt is a sign that you are, in some ways, not that well yourself. If you can identify that you are stuck in guilt, we can talk more about that-- I just need you to confirm that before I go off on that tangent, okay? Otherwise if not, then practice, practice, practice sheer cliff!

Thank you Sorrow! I read your post and it made me feel exceedingly better about this whole thing. I agree with you completely that I should, indeed, simply close the door on this chapter of my life. It is a small chapter, but I really think that you are right that it is a good idea to truly let go of all of this for the sake of my own mental and emotional health.

Another friend of Jen's had a similar falling out with her and has said that after months of doing what Jen requested that Jen has come back essentially feeling sorry for herself and begging to be friends again. This girl, Christie, assured me in an email over myspace that this would eventually happen in my situation too. I really hope not because I just don't want to be associated with all of her drama and yo-yo-ing back and forth about what she thinks our friendship should be.

I feel like the entirety of our friendship has been based on what makes her comfortable and that she is only out for herself and doesn't bother to think about how her actions affect others. It is this self-centered mentality that has caused me to distance myself.

She is also an AA member, and a former drug-addict (though I don't know if like AA stuff that drug addiction is a continuous battle... I think so but I am not versed in that regard) so I think she is well aware of the attitudes that she is supposed to adopt, and that should I cite them as my intentions that she will grow increasingly hostile towards me. She has already gotten rather ugly at work (looks of death, not referring to me by name, but simply "the cashier") when all I have done is let her know that her drama, vascillations in emotion, and mood is simply too much for me to handle and I would prefer it if she would seek some professional counseling or other support to deal with her issues and not put them on me whenever she feels like things are spiraling out of control.

One of the reasons I had (yes, past tense) a hard time letting go of this situation was that I prided myself on being her confidante. Now I realize that I was sort of a chump and sounding board for her, but she was not willing to return the favor even if I really needed it and that is not how friendships should work. I should not be a dumping ground for her negative, destructive and malevolent emotions whenever she feels like it but then accused and alienated whenever I have out-lived my use to her (whether for material objects or a shoulder to cry on).

I did, in fact, send an email to the effect of a last email to let her know that I am letting go of the situation and no further contact (bad or good) is necessary. That the tension and negativity associated with remaining her friend was too much for me to handle and remain emotionally, spiritually, and mentally healthy. That it is best that we go our separate ways. I also requested that she try to be more pleasant at work because it would be extremely helpful to me and most likely be more healthy for her. I just don't need her to be a dark cloud milling about at work and trying to bring me down. It is a simple request and hopefully she will be able to abide by it, but I am not holding my breath to be honest.

So hopefully I am handling this well. I become very attached to my friends-- I know this and sometimes it threatens to destroy me if I don't recognize this fact. It appears that I suckered this time around and that I should be way more careful who I befriend.

So aside from any further developments that might occur that stem from her destructive behavior I most likely will not discuss it further or think about it further. I have graduation, a good job (in addition to the one I share with her) and some exciting travel plans to look forward to. I also have other relationships that I can focus on positive things and feel more like I am contributing to the good in the world as opposed to the destructive.

Thank you so much for your help and your reflections on this post would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Kitty

Girl it sounds like you have a serious problem and I think I can help you! You should move on in life and find a new best friend because it sounds like she hates you. I know how it feels I was in the same situation but she did not live right beside me.
Hope this helps!

Dear Kitty,
I am glad you found so much of what I had posted useful. I see that I am invited to comment further and so I am. You are making some very nice progress with this but there are still places where I think you don't exactly speak the truth to yourself. And that, dear Kitty, will get you in trouble. So it is with the hope of heading off that bad results for you that motivates me posting more here. You seem interested in making more progress.

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Originally Posted by PinkParisKitty

One of the reasons I had (yes, past tense) a hard time letting go ..... I become very attached to my friends-- I know this and sometimes it threatens to destroy me if I don't recognize this fact. It appears that I suckered this time around and that I should be way more careful who I befriend.

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No offense but after a bunch of beating around the bush, LOL you finally told the truth here. You have codedpendency tendencies in your relationships and that needs to be looked at with honest courage and seen for what it is. And you can do that too! It will continue to be something you have to fight against unless and until you find a way to heal it instead. I am telling you this as one who has overcome it myself. If you are interested in getting results, I would recommend doing what I did --- start with reading the book, Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie.

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Originally Posted by PinkParisKitty

I did, in fact, send an email to the effect of a last email to let her know that I am letting go of the situation and no further contact (bad or good) is necessary. That the tension and negativity associated with remaining her friend was too much for me to handle and remain emotionally, spiritually, and mentally healthy. That it is best that we go our separate ways. I also requested that she try to be more pleasant at work because it would be extremely helpful to me and most likely be more healthy for her. I just don't need her to be a dark cloud milling about at work and trying to bring me down. It is a simple request and hopefully she will be able to abide by it, but I am not holding my breath to be honest.

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I am glad to hear you aren't holding your breath, since I have to tell you she is not likely to respond well to any of this (it was just more gas on the fire, frankly) and your need to send "just one more email" is a whole lot like the alcoholic needing "just one more drink"! How do I know this? The recovery business was my profession for the last twelve years. An alcoholic and a codependent are almost flip sides of the same record-- which is why you two are able to get under each others' skins so well. Be done telling her anything. That is what I meant by a sheer cliff. Be done no matter what. That is your form of sobriety. Leave her to hers.

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Originally Posted by PinkParisKitty

So aside from any further developements that might occur that stem from her destructive behavior I most likely will not discuss it further or think about it further......Thank you so much for your help and your reflections on this post would be much appreciated.

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Oh but you will think about it, in fact you violated your own rule the minute you asked me to make further comment. See how much you are not in alignment with your own intentions here? That is you doing it, not her and that's that part you need to look at. Read the book and ask all the questions you like and sooner or later, we won't be talking much about her at all simply because we'll have so much to talk about your recovery instead! Won't that be nice?

Respectfully,
Val... aka Mrs Miyagi (an old joke here and one I hope makes you laugh and feel at ease too)

In our quest for mental and emotional health and spiritual enlightenment we're blessed with gurus and anti-gurus. Jen is your anti-guru, Val is your guru. Listen to Val. Stop thinking about Jen.

I am doing my best to be honest with myself and I know that I invest a lot into my friendships which is why I should be more selective about who I trust and invite into my emotional domain, so to speak.

I suppose that I should look at this as a form of recovery-- It's a little bit odd to me, but I really am trying to not think about this any more.

I will honor your effort not to think about it anymore. I won't be montioring this thread either so you'll have to hail me to ask any questions concerning recovery, if they arise. Good luck Kitty.