Ask Me Help Desk - Paul and Peter's doctrine on salvation

Some try to form a division between the doctrines preached by Peter and Paul. I want to state that both preached the same doctrine. We know both men spent time with Christ at some point in their lives, and both preached the "terms of pardon" as Jesus did Himself. The concise explanation of Christian behavior to merit salvation and acceptance of God's grace is found in Acts 2:38. God's "Grace" was presented to humanity through the innocent blood of Christ, and our part is found in Acts 2:38. In other words, God gave us a check-Christ's sacrifice, but we have no money yet-salvation is what the cashed check represents, until we cash the check-Acts 2:38. This would be : hear the gospel,;believe the gospel; confess this belief and sinful sorrow; repent these sinful ways of your past; be baptized fully in water, and 2 things happen that cannot be found in the gospel by any other way. These are the (1) remittance of sins-God forgets these because of obedient faith made possible by Christ's attoning life and subsequent death in our place, and (2) the gift of the Holy Spirit is given us by obeying these commands -again because of the prior workings of Christ. This is the sermon preached in Acts 2:38, and is the very "seal" written about by Paul in Romans when he tells us that unless the Spitit of Christ is found is us we are none of His. The 2 Apostles actually agree completely. Paul and Pete both baptized repentant believers who at that point were added to the Church. In fact paul writes in the Corinthian letter that all scripture is doctrine. That would include his writings as well as Peter, and Luke who scribed Acts-which holds vast amonts of info about Peter and Paul. In Galatians we see where Paul spent 3 years conferring with Christ-not with "flesh and blood". He tells us that very plainly, and Peter spent 3 plus years with Jesus as an appointed and chosen Apostle. Both agreed upon scripture, and anyone rejecting either rejects the very essence of the teachings of Christ- which they both reflect in their own contributions to the gospel by their pen but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit God is the author of scripture acting through inspired men-and both Peter and Paul are included in this list. So the question must be-how can you not agree with both as they both reflect exactly what was taught by Christ?

Hi, Harrell.

May I do some good natured guessing?

You do not see Father and Son as separate individuals.

You do not see the Holy Ghost as a person.

You believe that one has to speak with other tongues to be saved.

You do not baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Am I wrong?

They disagreed on the role of the Gentiles in the church

Paul did not personally baptise, he noted that in scripture that he was glad he did not personally baptise anyone but a few.

Paul did not physcially spend anytime with Christ and was not converted till after Christ death.

The Spirit is in us and is gifts of all sort, teaching, waiting on others and many more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galveston

Hi, Harrell.

May I do some good natured guessing?

You do not see Father and Son as separate individuals.

You do not see the Holy Ghost as a person.

You believe that one has to speak with other tongues to be saved.

You do not baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Am I wrong?

Trinity-yes, Father, Son, Holy Spirit (Comforter)
Holy Ghost-Comforter promised by Jesus and 3rd part of Trinity
Tongues-no only Apsotles and House of Cornelius and a few who had hands laid on them who got some gifts from God but not the office of Apostle.yes. These "tongues" were simply the ability to speak in any language or dialect for the benefit of the LISTENER without the benefit of formal training in those languages

Baptize in the name of Jesus-yes as commanded in Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3, Matthew 28:19,20 and others
I believe the Bible is inerrent and the will of God. As far as disagreeing on the Gentiles issue- this was resloved in Acts 10 where Peter had a hand in the conversion of the entire House of Cornelius. The entire Church was Jewish until then, which was a period of approximately 10 years. ALL Apostles preached to all people after that.
As far as a division in doctrine the essence of the Apostles preaching was unity, and they held to that for the duration as their source in all matters was Christ. There were a number of gifts (power) these men received from God in order to prove they were sent from Him, and remembering and discerning the truth was included. Let's make this short. The Will, Word, and Mind of God is revealed in scripture, and as Paul stated" all scripture is good for doctrine". To deny the inerrency of the Bible is to reject the idea God is God. One mistake means the entire body of work is suspect-and open to man made doctrine added as one's beliefs. This is how we have maybe 2000 denominations worldwide. The fact that Christ founded only 1 (One) Church should be all we need to know, but it is not an easy path to follow what the Bible has in store for us even though the reward is unbeatable. Good luck to all that must decide what to believe. Become Christian only by adhereing to the Bible only. Acts 2:38 is the most concise statement of what is required to attain salvation. The Calvinists of the world would have you believe otherwise-as in it only takes "belief from the elec"t. That means only the elect make Heaven, which is blasphamy. God wants all to find Him. Be sure to understand there are "terms of pardon", and God has provided the grace through the sinless lfe and attoning death of His Son- Jesus of Nazareth. The rest is up to us. Hear the gospel. Believe the gospel. Confess you wrongdoing and belief. Repent-change your mind about Jeus and understand you were wrong and His teachings are the Way, Thruth, and Life. Be baptized in water. Hold steadfastly to trying to obey God's commandments until death. These are those "terms of pardon" required of all to enter Heaven. The thief on the Cross? Well Jesus Himself pardoned his sins, and he was dead before the 2nd Covenent was established anyway. Romans 10-well the text was written to saved Christians, and not a discourse on salvation. John 3:16-well the entire conversation goes from John 3:3 to about John 3:24 and we see Jesus tells us Himself that salvation is to be through water and spirit. The Greek word is the same word found when talking about the "much water" found in the Jordan River. The "spirit" part can only be found as being part of a believer in Acts 2:38. I hope everyone choses correctly. May Heaven be your reward.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

they disagreed on the role of the Gentiles in the church

Paul did not personally baptise, he noted that in scripture that he was glad he did not personally baptise anyone but a few.

Paul did not physcially spend anytime with Christ and was not converted till after Christ death.

The Spirit is in us and is gifts of all sort, teaching, waiting on others and many more.

The fact is that Paul did baptize-12 on the road to Demacus and others brother. Paul spent 3 years somewhere conferring" not with flesh and bone" as recorded in Galatians. It alludes to Paul being in the"Spirit" with Jesus Himself. Jesus appeard to Paul many times after His ascension, so Paul was not 2nd fiddle by any means. Peter wrote Himself that Paul was an Apostle, and even though hard to understand was correct-and they all agreed on doctrinal issues. The "Spirit" you speak of is not anything but the "seal" Paul wrote about in Romans 6 which identifies us as Christians. The thought that we have to have the"Holy Ghost" in us is not scriptualo The fact that we all have different jobs is the Church is correct. SOme are teachers, elders, evangelists, and workers. We are either Christian or not, and the Bible plainly teaches the things we must do to become saved, stay saved, and explains what our goals must be after becoming saved. The secret is understanding the Bible is the only source of knowledge about God. Nothing else, and completely sufficient to become a Christian. Paul was a Roman citizen, a member of the Jewish relgious society before conversion, and did preach to the Gentiles and the Jews as did the rest of the Apostles after the episodes of Acts 10 and Acts 11 happened. I do not understand why some try to make a difference between what Paul and the other Apostles preached, because the Bible meshes as a great writing should, and there are no conflicting doctrines there. There are some bad interpretations by some groups like the Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Catholics, Lutherens, and Baptists that deviate from what the scriptures say-hence the difference in their beliefs, and additions or subtractions from the Bible. This is the basis for the creation of denominations, which goes against the idea of unity promoted by the Jesus and His Apostles.

Harrill,

This is a perfect example of how to rightly divide the word of God that Paul instructs us to do.

When Peter is preaching in the beginning of acts.. what is going on? Well, they were STILL under the Law, they were still going to temple, they were waiting for the Lord to come at ANY second to set up his earthy kingdom. They had no real knowledge of grace or the church. It was revealed to them slowly... SO I agree, Paul and Peter DID end up on the same page as the Lord started to reveal his whole plan to them. BUT when Peter was preaching and 3,000 got saved... He still didn't fully comprehend everything because it hadn't been revealed.

In John we see Jesus "breathed on the Apostles". They were ready for action , and had been given these 9 gifts to build the Church already IMO. The occurrences on Pentacost were a sign to "go, teach, and baptize". They already had the full effect of the Holy Spirit which included healing, discerning tryuth, tongues, interpretation, remebering the doctrine of Christ word for word with full understanding. In Galatians we see Paul spent his time "in the Spirit" with Christ and himself was prepared. The Apostles-including Paul and Mathias (who had been there from the beginning) had about the same amont of time with jeus in one form or another. I do not believe they learned much as time went on except in the case of Peter (who passed this to the others) who had to be tagged 3 times to understand Gentiles were to be preached the gospel as were all people. This was not given for the first 10 years anyway, so it really would not be an acquired info-simply revealed when the time was nigh. The basic stories in the Bible are great to study, but the world has missed the point about slavation. There are "terme of pardon" that so many denominations have defined as "works' and have abandoned them for a ""Calvinistic "belief only" ritual". This is the most important message of the entire Bible-how to become a Christian. I hope someone reads this and gets upset to the point of reading the scripture to prove me wrong. The first step would be to highlight every conversion in Acts-and compare to what I have written, what Christ preached-and the Apostles also preached. I feel it will be a life changing endeavor. Good luck-thanks for the comments, and let's agree to disagree for the sake of the lost.

Harrill,

Like I said early, when Peter told the Jews to repent and be baptized he meant it. By being baptized they were identifying themselves with the Lord Jesus who was just rejected by THEM and crucified. It was a BIG deal.

BUT that isn't Paul's gospel and Peter didn't preach that gospel that day. Why? Because he didn't fully understand all the Jesus was going to do. The Lord hadn't revealed it to Peter. ( remember Peter is STILL this law abiding Jew who still went to temple) Like I said, they ( Peter and the 11) were waiting for Jesus to come back any day to set up his earthy kingdom. Peter still didn't fully understand what the Lord was going to do regarding the Church and grace and whosoever will.

How you become a Christian is by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He died for MY sins he took My punishment and he rose for MY justification. (Just as if I had never sinned.) If you think Peter understood THAT in Act 2:38, I'd say you were wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrill7

Some try to form a division between the doctrines preached by Peter and Paul.

True.

Quote:

I want to state that both preached the same doctrine.

I agree.

Quote:

We know both men spent time with Christ at some point in their lives, and both preached the "terms of pardon" as Jesus did Himself. The concise explanation of Christian behavior to merit salvation and acceptance of God's grace is found in Acts 2:38. God's "Grace" was presented to humanity through the innocent blood of Christ, and our part is found in Acts 2:38. In other words, God gave us a check-Christ's sacrifice, but we have no money yet-salvation is what the cashed check represents, until we cash the check-Acts 2:38. This would be : hear the gospel,;believe the gospel; confess this belief and sinful sorrow; repent these sinful ways of your past; be baptized fully in water, and 2 things happen that cannot be found in the gospel by any other way. These are the (1) remittance of sins-God forgets these because of obedient faith made possible by Christ's attoning life and subsequent death in our place, and (2) the gift of the Holy Spirit is given us by obeying these commands -again because of the prior workings of Christ. This is the sermon preached in Acts 2:38, and is the very "seal" written about by Paul in Romans when he tells us that unless the Spitit of Christ is found is us we are none of His.

This is quite close to the truth. But if I'm not mistaken, you are confusing the Sacrament of Baptism with the Sacrament of Confirmation (the seal). We see that these are two separate Sacraments in Acts 8:14-17

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Quote:

The 2 Apostles actually agree completely. Paul and Pete both baptized repentant believers who at that point were added to the Church. In fact paul writes in the Corinthian letter that all scripture is doctrine.

I'm not familiar with that verse. Although I agree it is a true statement.

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That would include his writings as well as Peter, and Luke who scribed Acts-which holds vast amonts of info about Peter and Paul.

It is actually St. Peter who says:
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his (St. Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

St. Peter also says:
2 Peter 1:19-21 (King James Version)

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Pretty much equating the Christian writings with (or perhaps elevating above i.e. a more sure word) OT Scripture.

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In Galatians we see where Paul spent 3 years conferring with Christ-not with "flesh and blood". He tells us that very plainly, and Peter spent 3 plus years with Jesus as an appointed and chosen Apostle. Both agreed upon scripture, and anyone rejecting either rejects the very essence of the teachings of Christ- which they both reflect in their own contributions to the gospel by their pen but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit God is the author of scripture acting through inspired men-and both Peter and Paul are included in this list. So the question must be-how can you not agree with both as they both reflect exactly what was taught by Christ?

That is true.

How do you feel about St. James and St. Paul's teaching on faith?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrill7

This is how we have maybe 2000 denominations worldwide. The fact that Christ founded only 1 (One) Church should be all we need to know, but it is not an easy path to follow what the Bible has in store for us even though the reward is unbeatable…

I think the number is between 32,000 and 38,000 different denominations today. I agree that there is only one Kingdom of Christ, One Body of Christ, which is one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

JoeT

Corrrection Grumpy Joe. Your definition is not accurate. Oe Body of Christ is all placed IN CHRIST.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Corrrection Grumpy Joe. Your definition is not accurate. Oe Body of Christ is all placed IN CHRIST.

But Christ only established One Church:
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And one Baptism as the ritual entrance into this Church:
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And this Church is the body of Christ:
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

So, if Scripture says that Christ is not divided, how do we divide His body?
1 Corinthians 1:13
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

So, which are these, who are not members of Christ's church who are yet in Christ?

DeMaria,

We will have to agree to disagree. Peter and Paul were no more involved in catholicism than I am. Nor did Jesus start it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrill7

The basic stories in the Bible are great to study, but the world has missed the point about slavation. There are "terme of pardon" that so many denominations have defined as "works' and have abandoned them for a ""Calvinistic "belief only" ritual". This is the most important message of the entire Bible-how to become a Christian. I hope someone reads this and gets upset to the point of reading the scripture to prove me wrong. The first step would be to highlight every conversion in Acts-and compare to what I have written, what Christ preached-and the Apostles also preached. I feel it will be a life changing endeavor. Good luck-thanks for the comments, and let's agree to disagree for the sake of the lost.

I agree totally! God Bless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna Mae II

I agree totally! God Bless.

I totally disagree. When Peter was speaking to the Jews, he had no idea of what the Lord was going to do concerning the Gentiles and the church. It is IMPORTANT to read every conversion... but understand what is going on... and what they understood. I do not believe anything in Christianity is a "ritual". I also ADD nothing to salvation but the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and believeing it by faith. Period.

Sorry, I sound like a broken record... but that is how I see it and why.