Hello again,

You have heard, have you not, the right wing call for the underpants bomber to be taken to a secret prison and tortured? Unless and until we repudiate torture, it will remain on the table for Obama, or God forbid, Sarah Barracuda to use...

If we DON'T stop it cold, do I think it'll eventually be OK to torture criminal suspects? Sure. What's the difference, once you step over that line?

Just HOW do we repudiate it?? By trying, as war criminals, those who ordered it, and those who participated in it. That's how.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

You have heard, have you not, the right wing call for the underpants bomber to be taken to a secret prison and tortured?
excon

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No, I haven't. Who called for it? When and where would be nice to know, too.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

No, I haven't. Who called for it? When and where would be nice to know, too.

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Hello again, Cats:

Bill Krystol and Kit Bond on Fox this morning. What? You want him in Gitmo, so you can give him tea and crumpets? Who're you trying to fool??

excon

The latest Rasmussen poll says that 58% Americans favor the use of enhanced interrogation use on the attacker of flight 253.

71% of all voters think the attack should be investigated by the military . 22% say it should be handled by civilian authorities as a criminal act.
58% Favor Waterboarding of Plane Terrorist To Get Information - Rasmussen Reports

It isn't just a handful of "rightwingers" who get it.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It isn't just a handful of "rightwingers" who get it.

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Hello again, tom:

I don't disagree. The politics of fear works. That's why our country wasn't founded on fear. If it was, do you think we would have given criminals all those rights we give 'em?? Nahhh...

We scream out every time something threatening happens: please, take more of our privacy away; please torture more people, monitor more of our communications; ban more of us from flying; imprison more people without charges; take more and more control and power just so you can keep us safe.

But, it's the road to oblivion. Fortunately, our founders were smarter than that. Here's what John Adams had to say about it:

"Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it."

Maybe we'll wake up and reassert the America I love... Or maybe we'll continue on down this path toward fascism. But, it'll be over my dead body.

When I joined the Navy, lo those many years ago, this is what I promised my country: "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...." When I was discharged, they didn't tell me that I was relieved of my oath.

I fought once for liberty in this country, and I'll do it again.

excon

Would anyone complain if we had just knocked him off in Yemen via drone attack?

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The politics of fear works. That's why our country wasn't founded on fear.

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This isn't fear however . This is just prudence. This guy failed .But before his gvt appointed lawyer told him to clam up he freely admitted that he was just one of 300 AQ trainees for similar missions.

In otherwords ;this is the ticking time bomb scenario that we are told doesn't exist. When I weigh the so called moral dilemna against saving hundreds of lives ,I find it a no brainer .

As a criminal he no longer is an intelligence asset . None of the normal incentives exists . This guy was going to blow himself up . What are you offering to him for information ? A shorter sentence? The only incentive is comfort as opposed to discomfort .

As far as the argument of it being against who we are ;that fails in the face of history . Roosevelt ordered Nazi saboteurs hung and the civil libertarians were AWOL .

Now you mentioned Richard Reid and I mentioned Zacarias Moussaoui, the "20th hijacker" in another OP. These cases happened early after 9-11 when no military system was in place to handle the "GWOT" . In both cases they were picked up on immigration violations and had both not plead guilty ;who knows what type of circus their criminal trials would've become. As it is ;I doubt we got the intel we could've gotten from them .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It isn't just a handful of "rightwingers" who get it.

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Uh yea because Rasmussen polls are done by right-wingers for right-wingers.

Show me evidence that this isn't as they describe it... a list of 1000 likely voters. Show me evidence that it is biased sampling .

Rasmussen vs The Rest - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Rasmussen, the Only Poll that Matters The Washington Independent

Who is Scott Rasmussen?

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2003-2004 - As a campaign consultant, Rasmussen received $95,500 from the Republican National Committee and another $45,500 from the George W. Bush campaign.

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Hello again,

Let's not get sidetracked... There is NO question that people, even logical ones, react to fear this way. It's not really a matter of majorities, though, as the rightwing argues... They seem to think we live in a democracy.

They argue the majority is against gay marriage, so there. They argue the majority is for drug prohibition, so there. They argued the majority is against black children going to white schools. They argue here constantly, that the Constitution ISN'T a suicide pact, meaning I suppose that it can be violated if somebody get's scared enough...

That's WHY the founders made sure the character of our nation couldn't change based upon the latest poll. We haven't been, up until now, a nation defined by fear.

Hopefully, our institutions are strong enough to withstand, not only the terrorists assault, but the right wing's as well.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Rasmussen vs The Rest - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Rasmussen, the Only Poll that Matters The Washington Independent

Who is Scott Rasmussen?

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In April a Gallup poll found that 55 percent of Americans thought enhanced interrogations, including waterboarding, were justified. Launch your Gallup attack now.

Stop worrying about the CIA torturing detainees, they're busy watching arctic ice.