I have some question/comments on Child masturbation.
I was shocked a few days ago when I walked in to my adopted daughters room to ask her a question and was greeted with pjs off and hands very busy in the nether regions. This totally throw me for the biggest loop of my life. I know she has had 6 very messed up years. She started living with us at the age of 6. I always wondered why she had the heavy covers on her in the middle of summer and why she just seemed like a very sweaty sleeper. I now have my answer but in my upbringing, the only time that portion of your body is to be touched is to clean it and wipe after going bathroom at least until you marry. Speaking about sex makes me uncomfortable and now this going on under my roof is even more disturbing. I do not understand how a child masturbating can be accepted as a society norm. We already know that she may never develop a sense of right and wrong or be able to distinguish between them. She has been in counseling for over 2 yrs and we do not see any significant positives from it yet. She is self destructive defiant and becoming very verbally abusive to my biological children. She has had many problems at school throwing things to actually threatening the life of one child with scissors to the child throat and even physically hitting staff.
What can be done to help her? We are begging for some answers. Should we seek new a psychiatrist and counselor?

How old is your adopted daughter ?

As for masturbation, young men masturbate and no one finds anything wrong with it; adult men masturbate. At least you won't have to worry about her becoming pregnant for the time being.

She does sound to be out of control though, but I don't think masturbating has anything to do with that.

If counselling hasn't helped then you have to seek a better source such as pyschological counsellling.

Tick

First, have you discussed this with her therapist? How can you suggest that she needs a change if you haven't done so? If you are concerned about the lack of progress have you discussed that with the therapist? From what you have said, this is a troubled girl who may need years of therapy.

Second, I think you need some counseling. Your attitude towards child masturbation is so 1950s. You need to change that attitude and your general comfort level about discussing sex before you traumatize your other children and send them to therapy.

You really left out some very important details. Like your adopted daughter's age and some details about why she is the way she is.

As you can note, yes, children developing sexual habits, TV shows showing increased sexual use, just read the numbers of children 12 and younger having sex on a regular bases.

Yes society has accepted children being sexual and if you try to go against the flow of society you are called names.

If you have "old fashion" morals and values you are considered wrong now a days.

First off, I stand strong, tall and proud of my morals. I am not going to apologize for my view on sex. I am opened minded to almost anything. But child masturbation being normal? NO I never did it, my kids never did it. I spoke with my brothers and sisters and none of their kids ever did it that they know off. They are very liberal with they children.
Second, Television in our home is strictly censored. It does not matter what a persons stance is on something anymore, everyone is wrong to someone.
Third, She is the youngest at 9 yrs. My children have high self esteem and seem to be secure in who they are, what they wish to do with their lives. They have promised God to not have sex till they are wed.
Her life has been a war. I realize that it may take years of therapy. My husband and I have spoken on several occasions with the therapist and the Dr on the lack of progress. Nothing changes and their only response is to give it time. She lost her brother when she was 3. They were taken away from their mom for neglect. Her brother and her were split. Although I did run in to his adopted mom and she would like to set up some time for them to be together but he also has the same problem. But his only is when his sister is around. Her stipulations are that they will not see each other until they are both mentally stable. The family they were removed from has many mental instabilities. Everything from schizophrenia and bipolar to aspbergers and other forms of autism to physical, mental and sexual abuse. So as you can see, this not just a simple undertaking. To top it all off, her IQ is off the chart. I just keep wondering if there is any one out there that is better equipped to handle the counseling then where we are at right now.

I think may help you all understand me a bit better.
I was raised in a strict Catholic family and I have Aunts and great Aunts That are nuns.

First, there is a big difference between morals and acknowledging natural behaviors. I'm not saying you should give up your morals, but if you think that masturbation in children is abnormal then you are in for a rude surprise. I suggest you do some research on this issue.

I'm not going to say you aren't being truthful that you never did it, because I believe you truly believe that. However, especially for girls, this is very common. For girls, the act of "wiping" is usually how they learn that touching that way can be stimulating. With boys its more word of mouth since the action is not as natural. So I suspect that you have experimented when you were very young but have repressed the memory.

I also wonder if you really believe that, with your repressed sexuality and strict households your kids are actually going to be honest with you about this? I'm sure your kids have decided to save sex for being wed, just as I'm sure that they mean with another partner.

But that is neither here nor there. I would suggest that you ask for a copy of this girl's medical records and take them to another therapist and ask if they think that she is getting the proper treatment.

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Originally Posted by TimberSheWolf

I think may help you all understand me a bit better.
I was raised in a strict Catholic family and I have Aunts and great Aunts That are nuns.

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You know I would have bet on that!

I respect your Catholic views. I too am Catholic and understand what the expectations of the Church are.

But it is a very normal thing for kids to explore their bodies, and do the things that feel good.

But 9 years old is young to be doing it.

Yes, it is a "sin" in the eyes of God, as you have been taught. But we are not perfect, and puberty is a confusing time.

And as far as the other children that you mentioned, how can you be so sure that none of them were not doing "self gratification"? No offense, but odds are that someone else was doing it.

It is very common, yet not admitted to by all that do it. Probably a top confession, however.

I know that this is upsetting for you.
Hopefully someone will help her with her past.

God bless you both.

I have to agree with JMJ here. I too am Catholic, however, I have had Child Development and Child Psychology classes. This is very common and rarely do the children tell their parents as they are embarrassed.

Exploration of their bodies is normal and natural. Although we are taught it is a sin, children do this and it is very natural. It is all part of the growth process.

jmjoseph agrees: I agree, yet wonder why girls and women were excluded. Oversight? Don't be shy tick.

Me shy, JM ? Don't think so if you read my responses to people asking about sexuality. I probably didn't mention girls and women because I assumed it was a given. I can clearly remember me exploring my body when I was five. . It is a way of touching and knowing and learning what sexuality was all about.

That was in the 40s, JM, when one's own sexual behavior was not discussed, one didn't hear their parents discussing sex and absolutely you were lucky if your mom told you about menstruation.

So, no, JM, tick is not shy. Tick went full speed ahead without asking questions and learned all the good parts first.

Tick

Thank you all. I just wish I knew where to find her some indepth help. As for her medical record... The guardian (who was he biological aunt, why in the world would a court put a child that had been removed for neglect, in the care of a woman who had two, children removed from her care for gross neglect and abuse?) The aunt would not tell us who her doctor was but we had tracked it down and it seems that she only went to the dr a few times while in the care of her aunt. There are times when I watch the news and just want to shut the world out so my kids will not see how hateful this world has become but yet I know its not practical. But the wish that the worlds people can just live in peace and harmony is still there.
As the time has gone by that she has been with us, I see how she was never taught the basics of living. She still struggles to get dressed and not rip her clothes in the process, she would go through one toothbrush a week(she chewed them to clean her teeth), she did not even know how to wipe her behind. Heck, she had never been to the dentist even. If everything she has said about her life is true, the aunt and uncle that had her, should be in prison. She suffered from failure to thrive when she came her and is still small for her age. I used to have infinite patience but there are times when I find myself having to check the frustration I feel.

I'm a Lutheran preacher's kid and grew up with all of the same restrictions and warnings you did. We knew our parents loved us and we did not feel repressed, but did those restrictions keep us from exploring our bodies? No. Even babies and toddlers will touch themselves in places that their parents frown on. Why? Because the little ones don't understand there is a difference between pleasure while stroking an arm and pleasure while stoking private parts. Pleasure is pleasure. They do it because it feels good.

God put that sensitivity there for a good reason, to encourage us to enjoy nudity and sex, and to be eventually interested in adding to the human race.

I'm wondering if your adopted daughter has been sexually touched by an older child or an adult, so that she wants to continue for herself the pleasure that someone improperly gave her. Yes, sexual abuse can give pleasure to the abused child and changes how that child forever after thinks about sex and sexual pleasure.

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Originally Posted by TimberSheWolf

Thank you all. I just wish I knew where to find her some indepth help.

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Would you be willing to give us a general idea of where you live? I'm a professional counselor and might be able to direct you a bit.

If that's no good, please go to the reference department at your local public library. One of the reference librarians should have available a directory for your county or township or area listing social services and child psychologists and child management specialists. The last one is what you really need to find.

Or if there is a college or university near you, that may have a psychology department that offers clinical services to the community.

Or call Catholic Charities in your area or Lutheran Social Services to get a social worker to advocate for your daughter.

Since our health insurance does not pay for mental, the state of Michigan picks up the tab since our income is low but not low enough to get any other help from them. Lol It's the community mental health dept that referred us to Bethany Christian. We started with home based but there was just too many distractions and we felt that she may feel freer to talk in the private setting. I totally agree that she may have been sexually abused. My 14 yr old was being groomed by her father who was just released from prison so she clammed up again. She also goes to Bethany but she does not seem happy with her therapist. Now her dr there, is more then willing to try different meds but our 9 yr olds is very reluctant.
I had a conversation one time in a grocery store of all places. This woman was trying to decide what to make for dinner and I made a suggestion and our conversation just skyrocketed from there. It turns out she is a psychiatrist. She feels that my 9 yr old had basically locked herself behind a wall and can not see the light at the end of the tunnel. So to speak. She had never went through the state for payment before but is willing to do it for my child. I have not tried catholic social services, never really thought about them but will give them a call Monday. Thank you.
You know now that I really think about it and remember back, I did do the curiosity of having to see a male and do remember touching myself on one occasion but then I felt extremely shameful. Right now, sex is almost nonexistent between my husband and I because our bedroom shares a wall with my 19 yr old and grandson. Honestly, I can't wait for her to graduate and get an apartment. Love them but I struggle to not do the parenting with him. It would not be good for me to do it.

Are you in Easter Michigan or Western? I may have a suggestion for you.

Gr

Well, now, my old stomping grounds!! I graduated from FHC and lived in Ada!

Have you tried Pine Rest? They have, or had, a wonderful children's program. Inpatient AND outpatient.

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Originally Posted by TimberSheWolf

You know now that i really think about it and remember back, I did do the curiosity of having to see a male and do remember touching myself on one occasion but then I felt extremely shameful.

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You felt extremely shameful because of your strict upbringing. I'm not criticizing here just explaining. But do you want your children to feel the same shame?

I do not want them to feel that it is appropriate out of wedlock.