Here is a thought for you campers


There are some people who live in a dream world,

And there are some who face reality; and then

There are those who turn one into the other.

Douglas Everett

I cannot help but notice as we come into the second week of Copenhagen talks on climate change that the newspapers have fallen silent on the subject. Excepting for a small article on release of several hundred protesters the fickle press have taken the most important conference since time began off the list.

My question is therefore have the delegates living large in CopenhagenLuxury digs at climate talkfest | The Courier-Mail turned the dream into reality or has reality taken on a dream quality. I think we must all realise that in the face of reality the dream of a world cooperating to solve a mutual problem has evaporated into water vapor, hot CO2 and much methane.

We can only hope the effort has fallen apart.

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I think we must all realise that in the face of reality the dream of a world cooperating to solve a mutual problem has evaporated into water vapor, hot CO2 and much methane.

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They are all waiting for the chosen one to make his appearance . The interesting things that have come out of Copenhagen so far is the clear chasm in positions between developed and developing nations and a leaked secret draft agreement prepared by the Danish government... by a group of individuals known as the 'circle of commitment'.

According to ABC :
The document abandons the Kyoto Protocol, sidelines the United Nations in future climate change negotiations, and hands most of the power to rich countries.
Leaked agreement rocks Copenhagen - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Environmental groups are fuming ,claiming that the deal is a “behind the scenes negotiations...focussing on pleasing the rich and powerful countries rather than serving the majority of states who are demanding a fair and ambitious solution”.

Bolivia's delegate Angelica Navarro meanwhile has been ranting about 'carbon colonialism' and is demanding “reparations" from industrial nations.She called for a 'Universal Declaration of Mother Earth Rights' which Bolivian President Evo Morales says "supersede the rights of human beings". VII ALBA-TCP Summit: Special Declaration for a Universal Declaration of Mother Earth Rights Mother Earth

There was this Canadian reporter with 2 children of her own who called for a Malthusian restriction of 1 child per couple to reduce humans carbon footprint. International Planned Parenthood is putting on a show about how to increase contraception use in the third world to stop them from making carbon producing babies.

There is a women's rights group calling for more female environmental scientists .
And of course reporters asking scientists about Climategate are being suppressed at gunpoint
http://www.examiner.com/x-3704-Colum...gate-questions... and... there are plenty of protesters dressed like polar bears.

Suppressing questions at gunpoint, nice. I guess they feel justified since al-AP has determined the science was not faked. I guess it's settled.

Yes check out the way it is spinned .

The scientists were keenly aware of how their work would be viewed and used, and, just like politicians, went to great pains to shape their message. Sometimes, they sounded more like schoolyard taunts than scientific tenets.
The scientists were so convinced by their own science and so driven by a cause "that unless you're with them, you're against them," said Mark Frankel, director of scientific freedom, responsibility and law at the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He also reviewed the communications.
Frankel saw "no evidence of falsification or fabrication of data, although concerns could be raised about some instances of very 'generous interpretations.'

This is the best defense they have. It was faked but it's accurate .

And the rift is growing at Copenhagen.

Developing countries boycott UN climate talks - Yahoo! News

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in the face of reality the dream of a world cooperating to solve a mutual problem has evaporated...

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Yes reality is frequently is the stumbling block to utopianism .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

called for a 'Universal Declaration of Mother Earth Rights' which Bolivian President Evo Morales says "supersede the rights of human beings". VII ALBA-TCP Summit: Special Declaration for a Universal Declaration of Mother Earth Rights Mother Earth
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Now we have come full circle and religion has been exposed. This is the Earth Mother religion, the notion that the Earth is a living being to be worshiped and all of this fanaticism associated with climate change is exposed for what it is pagan religion, they will be bowing down before rocks next

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes reality is frequently is the stumbling block to utopianism .

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"Greenpeace added that the negotiations had five days "to avert climate chaos"."

No alarmism there. And in a surprising discovery, scientists have discovered that a surge in sunshine helped Swiss glaciers melt faster in the 1940's than today. These scientists are really smart people.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

"Greenpeace added that the negotiations had five days "to avert climate chaos"."

No alarmism there. And in a surprising discovery, scientists have discovered that a surge in sunshine helped Swiss glaciers melt faster in the 1940's than today. These scientists are really smart people.

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Not only was a surge in sunshine responsible but

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A phase of less sunshine -- global dimming -- from the 1950s to 1980s also corresponded with the advance in the snout of glaciers.

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Could it be we have entered a new phase of global dimming?

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could it be we have entered a new phase of global dimming?

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One environmental subject that is going relatively unnoticed is the deepening Solar Minimum. The number of sunspotless days has continued to expand over the past three years despite the solar cycle 24 to have been expected to have revved up by now. In 2008 73% of days featured o sunspots. 2009 stands at 76% and still growing. This makes 2009 second only to 1913 in terms of spotless days. The trough of Solar Cycle 23 and 24 has reached 768 days which is 58% longer than the average of 485 long term average.
Deep Solar Minimum: Not getting enough attention?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

One environmental subject that is going relatively unnoticed is the deepening Solar Minimum. The number of sunspotless days has continued to expand over the past three years despite the solar cycle 24 to have been expected to have revved up by now. In 2008 73% of days featured o sunspots. 2009 stands at 76% and still growing. This makes 2009 second only to 1913 in terms of spotless days. The trough of Solar Cycle 23 and 24 has reached 768 days which is 58% longer than the average of 485 long term average.
Deep Solar Minimum: Not getting enough attention?

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Hi Tom whilst you are spot on, this isn't exactly what I was meaning. I think you have to be particularly dim to miss all the peripheral evidence that what is happening isn't necessarily attributable to CO2. There are no straight line correlations over anything like reasonable statistical periods but there is tremendous variability in the observations. You and I both know that someone tried to cover this up because it didn't fit the story. To use political parlance; they put spin on it.

Rather than putting our efforts into half-hearted CO2 abatement we should be putting our efforts into preparing for coastal inundation, drought, water shortages, food shortages and mass relocation

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Now we have come full circle and religion has been exposed. This is the Earth Mother religion, the notion that the Earth is a living being to be worshiped and all of this fanaticism associated with climate change is exposed for what it is pagan religion, they will be bowing down before rocks next

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http://image.patriotpost.us.s3.amazo...ef-cartoon.jpg

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Originally Posted by tomder55

http://image.patriotpost.us.s3.amazo...ef-cartoon.jpg

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Brilliant:D

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You and I both know that someone tried to cover this up because it didn't fit the story.

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It is deeper than that . There is another smoking gun in your part of the world at a station called 'Darwin One ' in Darwin Airport. The data from the Global Historical Climate Network dataset (GHCN) was clearly and intentionally misrepresented .The raw data when graphed shows a decline in temperatures of 0.7 Celsius per century .But the "scientists" there massaged the data to show an increase in temperatures of 1.2 Celsius per century.

With the CRU ,NASA ,the phony Mann hockey stick graph ,the New Zealand NIWA ,and now this revelation at GHCN we are clearly looking at systemic fraud .

I posted the scoop on Darwin earlier but of course it was dismissed because of the source.

Also, there is a ‘ClimateGate: California Edition’ which is apparently based on a study by Stefan Rahmstorf of the CRU email gang. You can actually watch the bay area submerging thanks to the state of California and Google.

Hello:

I don't want to break up the pity party, but the reason the Copenhagen conference is in trouble has NOTHING to do with climate change, or even "climategate". It has to do with the inability of the world to organize anything.

Please don't confuse politics with science... But, of course, you will.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

I don't want to break up the pity party, but the reason the Copenhagen conference is in trouble has NOTHING to do with climate change, or even "climategate". It has to do with the inability of the world to organize anything.

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Perhaps if everyone didn't have their own agenda they could, but that's what makes the world a great place, we're not all alike.

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Please don't confuse politics with science... But, of course, you will.

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It's not the confusion between the two, it's the mixing...

And by the way tom, best cartoon of the year.

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Please don't confuse politics with science... But, of course, you will.

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Here is the politics behind Copenhagen.Poor countries have gone from defending their right to economic development as a reason for exemptions to emissions cuts to claiming a ”legitimate” right to vast wealth transfers from the West to prevent emissions. They call it ”climate justice.”

It started with the proposal from Bolivia and will end with Robert Mugabe,Hugo Chavez and the Mahdi-hatter lecturing the West and demanding a shakedown.
U.N. to give Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Mugabe podium at Copenhagen – osmoothie

George Soros wants the IMF to shell out billions in cash to third world countries for climate control... a pool of cash for kleptocrats to dip into without accountability .
Use IMF money to fight climate change - Soros, International News - By Indiaedunews.net

The World Bank plans to syphon development and disease prevention funds for this fraud.

Meanwhile the phoney's at the UN IPCC ;who were doing the chicken-little act about the urgency now say they will suspend a review of goals for emission reduction until the middle of the next decade .
Copenhagen stalls decision on catastrophic climate change for six years - Times Online

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A draft text published by the UN says that there should be a review in 2016, which could result in an “update of the long-term global goal for emissions reductions as well as of the adequacy of commitments and actions”.

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Maybe they see the new "truths" based on an honest plotting of the data and realize there isn't the urgency they predicted ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Maybe they see the new "truths" based on an honest plotting of the data and realize there isn't the urgency they predicted ?

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Hello again, tom:

I don't know. Steve posted something from the AP. I suppose you think THEY have an agenda too, huh? Here's part of what the AP said:
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(AP) – 2 days ago
LONDON — E-mails stolen from climate scientists show they stonewalled skeptics and discussed hiding data — but the messages don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked, according to an exhaustive review by The Associated Press.

The 1,073 e-mails examined by the AP show that scientists harbored private doubts, however slight and fleeting, even as they told the world they were certain about climate change. However, the exchanges don't undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.
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Don't look like THEY think there are any new "truths", and they actually read every single email.

excon

Greenpeace said we only had 5 days to save the world, now we're pushing it back 5 or 6 years? Must not be quite as urgent as thought.