My 20 y/o son moved back home a couple of months ago- again. Basically, this is what he does each time he 'burns a bridge' elsewhere. This time, however, he did get a job and has taken it very seriously.

In the meantime... he has a dtr who is almost 3y/o... has no relationship with her, nor pays any child support. This past Thursday, his girlfriend of 2yrs gave birth to their son. So now he has two children, and while he is still 'with' the girlfriend, he is in no position to support this new child either. The only reason he hasn't married her, despite an inability to support a family, is because he is still married to his dtr's mother...

Back at home, I have required nothing of him monetarily. His only recurring expense is 'gas' for his truck... and cigarettes. He has NO real-life bills to pay. Yet, he manages to save little to nothing out of each pay check. And, he is not very 'approachable' when it comes to discussing issues of 'responsibilities'. He quickly becomes hostile and disrespectful. Yesterday evening, he got home from work, changed clothes, and told me he was going out, & that "if Paula calls, tell her I'm already asleep..." And off to be with the guys and spend the money he should be saving.

My husband, his step-dad, has run out of patience much quicker then I. While I KNOW my son's behavior is intolerable, I find myself very confused and emotional while trying to figure out what is best to do... I love my son... watching him make all the wrong decisions and putting me in a position to decide just HOW TOUGH tough-love should be & execute it- is killing me... At the same time, I'm angry with my husband for acting as though all this has a greater negative effect on him then anyone. There is little communication between the two of them, so there is no drama there... 'I' pay ALL additional expenses that my son creates on the household. I work full time and pay ALL of MY OWN expenses for that matter. I support myself and ask him for NOTHING either. While still taking care of 90% of 'homemaking' and taking care of routine errands for him. I'm angry that he doesn't AT LEAST show some understanding... some compassion FOR ME as to how hard this situation must be for a parent. He has LESS emotions involved then he would if it were some family down the road. :(I am so STRESSED over the totality of it all that I don't know where to begin in sorting things out... I'm hoping that perhaps someone on the 'outside' can see this picture more clearly and put some perspective on it for me..? Doing the right things for 'everyone' IS very important to me...

I think you are enabling your son to live the livestyle he has chosen. Sometimes the biggest favor you can do for a child is throw the child out to stand on his/her own two feet.

I'm a stepmother. I know all about the parent's torn loyalties between spouse and child.

I think you are sacrificing your marriage for your child. If this has been going on for some time (and it apparently has) I do understand why your husband has run out of patience and understanding. I appreciate that you work full time, pay your expenses as well as your son's, keep the house up - but maybe your husband didn't plan on/want all of this drama in his house. If you are stressed, he is stressed.

Is your son going to be 50, still living off you, still running the streets? If not, now is the time to give him a time frame and then boot him out. I think you are putting yourself between your son and your husband. Neither one is forcing you into your present position.

Only my opinion and I'm sure other people will have other thoughts on the subject.

JudyKayTee, I do appreciate your time and input. I totally agree that I have 'enabled' my son. I do not defend his behavior, nor have I ever disputed the 'need' to take action. I realize there is a lot of information I did not include, so I would like to clear up some false assumptions. You seem to have assumed that my husband is innocent... a victim... and even that perhaps we are newlyweds (HIS house?): We have been married for 17 years (together for 19+ years). My son calls him 'dad'; He didn't plan on the drama? No one does. I did not plan on his either. All families face struggles that they did not 'plan' on. I could tell you about the years of 'drama' that I had to endure surrounding 'his' child (daughter) from a previous marriage. Yes, I'm a step-mother too. And she will tell you that I have 'always' been loving and fair to her. I'm afraid my husband fell short of that with my son. In fact, he once admitted that he struggled with the fact that he wasn't his 'real' son. Does my son have issues related to that? Of course he does. Am I struggling with guilt related to that? You can't even imagine. I keep trying to reach back and save the 'little boy' I no longer have...

As far as me "sacrificing my marriage for 'my child'." O.k.. I filed for a divorce only a couple of years ago... and if not for his crying and begging and emotional collapse, I would have only one problem now instead of the 'two'. But I felt sorry for him... I still loved him of course... just like I love and feel sorry for my son right now. Neither one is forcing me into my present position? Wow... um... this is my family we're talking about, not a mortgage lender.

With all that being said- I still do not excuse the way my son is carrying on with life right now... we all have a sad story. And I did not include all those details in my first post because I guess I did not realize how I left it sounding. I was viewing it from the 'inside'... I was just looking for a little advice... a little moral support from perhaps another mom out there who may have survived a similar situation and could offer some reassurance.

By the way, my husband apologized to me yesterday. He admitted that he should have put his energy into 'helping me' instead of criticizing me, that he didn't really know how to go about dealing with it either. We went on to have a really good talk about things- and we got a plan. That wasn't too much to ask for.

It's time to tell your son to fish or cut bait.

He has two children, doesn't support either one of them. He's a deadbeat dad living in the lap of luxury and you're paying for it.

Yes, I'm going to be harsh, because I think you need to hear this.

How are the mothers of his children doing without his support? He made these children but doesn't pay for them? What he's doing is wrong. He has a job. He shouldn't be buying cigarettes, he shouldn't even have a vehicle, he should be buying diapers and supporting the children he helped bring into this world.

The fact is, he has a safety net. Why work hard when mom will work hard for him? Why not go out and have fun. Heck, maybe he'll find another willing lady to have another child with him. Another fatherless child that he won't support.

He's a deadbeat. It's time for him to realize that actions have consequences. If he doesn't learn this then I think you'll soon be the grandmother of multiple fatherless children of multiple husbandless women.

Sometimes the best thing you can do for a child is stop mothering him. He has to stand on his own two feet. Yes, he'll probably fall, but that's the only way he'll learn to walk.

I'm really sorry, but I'm going to have to be blunt as well.

You're supporting your son to behave the way he does. You're supporting your son to avoid his responsibilities. You're supporting your son to remain a child and avoid growing up.

I too am a step parent. My stepdaughter is a spoilt monster. She is 17 and feels that she can throw 6 years old tantrums. I have been extremely clear that behavior like that is unacceptable in our household. Her response? "At least mum loves me and puts up with my behavior"...
My response? "If I put up with that behavior then I'm condoning it and depriving you of the opportunity to think about it and change".

This is what you're doing with your son. You're condoning his behavior and depriving him of the opportunity to take responsibility for his actions (past and future) and make positive changes.

I'm sorry, but your husband is right. He chooses not to put up with your son. You chose to support his daughter - that was your choice. Don't try and deflect the blame onto him, when it is your son who requires your focus.

Time to stop playing 'nice mummy'. Time to stop paying you son's bills, cleaning his room, washing his clothes, cooking his food - whatever else you do for him.

This is YOUR challenge. To support your son in his growth by stopping being his mummy.

I realize you don't agree with me and I didn't expect you to. As far as your husband's house - I actually held the title to our house during my entire marriage. (I am now widowed.) I owned the house when we married and we just never bothered to change the title. Nevertheless, it was as much HIS house as it was MY house.

You are enabling your son's bad behavior. If you are unhappy in your marriage, by all means get out of the marriage.

Everyone has problems; everyone has a story; everyone has guilt. It's my experience that that's how life goes.

And, again, I see your son as a deadbeat dad and I see you enabling his behavior. Painting your husband your stepdaughter as the bad guys in this scenario (which may very well be another scenario) simply further enables your son.

I'd suggest counselling but nobody ever listens.

JudyKayTee- No, I did not disagree with you. Did I not specifically agree with you at sentence number 2... right off the bat? And although not verbatim, some of you are even quoting my very own words... as if I have not already acknowledged the degree of this problem. The only reason you are aware of the details is because I told you... because I 'acknowledge' it. I'm a horrible person because I seek some direction in facing it head on? And yes, exactly, our home is OURS. That's the point I was making to you.

And the assumptions still continue... I did have my son in counseling- he was angry with me at first, no surprise, but then he began to look forward to talking to her. Then, he moved out... things spiraled from there. My husband and I, yes, we too attended individual, then joint, counseling after I filed for the divorce. I was really proud that he was willing to go. Week number six, on a Thursday, right in the middle of a session, our 32 yr veteran psychologist counselor stood up and told my husband that she "did not believe she could help him"... that he was "self absorbed and after weeks of counseling he continued showed very little effort to empathize with anyone other then himself." And she asked him to leave. I continued to see her for a couple of more weeks. She knew, in quite the depth, the whole family dynamics, and my last session with her, I was upset that day and I asked her point blank, "what is wrong with me?!" She quickly shot back- "You put up with him... you sacrificed yourself for him... including the mental health of your son... probably both of them." (we have a son together-13y/o). How's that for counseling JudyKayTee. While she did insist, as I do, that he is responsible for his actions and must work on the 'issues', she understood how he, we, got we're we are.

GEMINI54: You refer to your step-dtr as 'a spoiled monster- as in 'present tense'. So, if your not condoning it, what exactly have you done that has effectively redirected her behavior. What great dramatic action did you take with 'someone elses' child that has made her the mature, well behaved 17 y/o she is today. I know there's a lot of parents out there who are struggling with similar circumstances who would PAY to know your secret. No, I did not 'choose' to support his daughter... being a decent human being comes 'natural' for me. And I have NEVER SAID that I expected my husband to "put up" with my sons behavior. All I wanted was for him to 'join me' in a solution, rather then be a part of the problem. "Don't deflect the blame onto him"? Your kidding, right? I in no way said that the kind of person my husband was excuses the kind of man my son is... . You actually believe that are life experiences day in and day out do nothing to shape how we feel... how we view things... who we are? You think a little bit of 'back ground' info was irrelevant? Funny, seems our counselor believed it is the 'foundation' for most of our dysfunctions. In fact, I wonder a little bit about YOUR family's history... and how it may relate to your step-dtr's personality disorder. On the other hand, I could be completely wrong. It would be wrong of me to assume you are guilty of anything simply because you're the 'step-mom'. So, if YOU will stop deflecting your own biased frustrations onto to me and focus them back where they need to be- I will certainly do the same. K?

In the meantime, I found a really helpful website focused on helping parents with "adult children". It assumes that you acknowledge the problem and the need to take action, otherwise you wouldn't be at the website, and gets right down to the 'How-To'. Hmmmm, clever.

And there we have it. Another person that tells us her story, expects sympathy, gets the truth instead, now she's upset.

The truth hurts. Funny how all of us came up with pretty much the same solution.

As for the therapist that you saw. I have never heard of a therapist kicking a patient out of her office and telling him that he's beyond help. What kind of therapist is this? Did she get her license at Toys R Us?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

And there we have it. Another person that tells us her story, expects sympathy, gets the truth instead, now she's upset.

The truth hurts. Funny how all of us came up with pretty much the same solution.

As for the therapist that you saw. I have never heard of a therapist kicking a patient out of her office and telling him that he's beyond help. What kind of therapist is this? Did she get her license at Toys R Us?

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And, again, it happens - we should all be used to it by now. I would assume the mother's confrontational attitude has carried down to the son.

I would guess we were supposed to agree that the son is 100% correct and the husband is 100% incorrect - or something.

At any rate, this is NOT a discussion/chat board and I think it's time to close the thread.

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GEMINI54: You refer to your step-dtr as 'a spoiled monster- as in 'present tense'. So, if your not condoning it, what exactly have you done that has effectively redirected her behavior. What great dramatic action did you take with 'someone elses' child that has made her the mature, well behaved 17 y/o she is today. I know there's a lot of parents out there who are struggling with similar circumstances who would PAY to know your secret. No, I did not 'choose' to support his daughter... being a decent human being comes 'natural' for me. And I have NEVER SAID that I expected my husband to "put up" with my sons behavior. All I wanted was for him to 'join me' in a solution, rather then be a part of the problem. "Don't deflect the blame onto him"? Your kidding, right? I in no way said that the kind of person my husband was excuses the kind of man my son is... You actually believe that are life experiences day in and day out do nothing to shape how we feel... how we view things... who we are? You think a little bit of 'back ground' info was irrelevant? Funny, seems our counselor believed it is the 'foundation' for most of our dysfunctions. In fact, I wonder a little bit about YOUR family's history... and how it may relate to your step-dtr's personality disorder. On the other hand, I could be completely wrong. It would be wrong of me to assume you are guilty of anything simply because you're the 'step-mom'. So, if YOU will stop deflecting your own biased frustrations onto to me and focus them back where they need to be- I will certainly do the same. K?

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Er, what? Wow, what a defensive reaction.

Now I see why you're not able to deal with your family problems.

Just another angle here.

While this counselling was going on, was one of the focus points how to deal with your son? Were there any recommendations for insisting that he pay rent, or room and board? I don't know what the child support amounts are, but if he's working, maybe up the rent a bit, and start setting aside some money for the two children he has.

While that degree of responsibility might get him thinking, the next step would be for him to have his own place. He is a 20 year old man, not a wayward teenager.

While this continues to cause a great divide between you and your husband, you offer no solutions, and do not like what has already been suggested.

The main one, and what I agree with, is that he has to grow up. It's not a choice here. He's got responsibility on his plate for two babies that did not ask to be born. It's not an option to abandon them, and he should get his act together, because he's going to have to do a lot better than he is now, for the next 18 years at least.

Set some goals with him that you and your husband agree upon. Start with room and board, and give him a reasonable amount of time to find a stable place to live, maybe a month, two-tops.

You are not doing him any favours by not allowing him to take responsibility for his own life. You really do have to force the issue that you can no longer provide a 'parenting' role to him, because he has to be a parent now, and do what he has to do to provide for them.

As to the children he has created, have you had any contact with them? I would imagine that they are going to need all the love and support (not just financially) they can get, and you are a grandparent now.

Try to be less defensive and critical of others, and more open to opinions and suggestions. There is a lot of work to be done, and it is going to start with you taking control of your life, putting your marriage first, and following through with your son, in order that he can become a man.