Hi. I'm really grasping here and hoping one of you might be able to help without this costing me a fortune.

I have torn walls and ceilings out in my house to find the problem and attempted the hardware store advise to fix it but it didn't work.

I have a vertical cast iron drain pipe with a toilet that has been drained horizontally into it. It apparently worked for 20 years, but now it has a leak at the joint.

The toilet is drained with pvc (plastic) pipe and the joint where the pvc goes into the cast iron pipe is leaking.

We took out all the old putty around the pvc, scraped it good and dried it. We got some 'Soil Seal" stuff from the hardware store which was all they sold. One problem is, I had talked with someone about the drain and they suggested oakum/lead sealing system and educated me on how to do that. But in NY I have been told that they no longer sell oakum or lead for state guidelines.

The soil seal I bought here in NY, actually says to use oakum first then this product. So I ordered oakum online and had it shipped in, packed the pipe connection with it and then applied this product. We let it sit four days to be sure it was dry. Well, it didn't work. We have a leak at the very same place.

Since this is a side connection into the vertical drain, I cannot pour anything into it. It has to be somehow packed into it. I can't replace the cast iron pipe because it goes through the wall down three floors of my house and I'd never be able to afford that. Besides, I don't think the cast iron is the problem.

We contemplated cutting off the pvc about 10" and inserting a new pvc piece into the cast iron pipe but before I do that, I was hoping that I could find some advice.

This bathroom is on the third floor of a three story house. Since I haven't cut out the pvc pipe but tried to reseal what was there, I have no idea what the inside of the joint looks like or if the pvc is pushed all the way into the joint either.

Please help if you can.

Before I address your problem let me explain about lead and oakum joints. You just happened to reach a plumber who broke in on cast iron. A short course: It's not the lead that makes the joint water tight. It's okum, a hemp like material that swells up when water hits it. The lead is just to make sure the okum is packed in tight enough to seal. You should also know what special tools are needed to yarn and pour a joint from scratch. A lead ladle and a gas torch hot enough to melt it. Then you need lead and okum. Next you will need a , yarning iron to push the okum down in the joint. A packing iron to pack the okum down tight. If the joint is a horzontal one you will need a well oiled running rope to hold the lead in the joint until it cools. And last you will need inside and outside caulking irons plus a ballpean hammer. If this were my problem I would take my caulking irons and recaulk the joint.(Don't beat it so hard that you crack the cast iron bell.) In time the lead joint may shrink and not keep the okum packed down tight enough. That's what I think happened here. Before I even thought about melting out the old joint and making a new joint, I would recaulk it. Nine times out of ten that will do it. But if it don't then you're going to have to find a plumber that can pour a horizontal joint. If it were anything but the male end of PVC going into the branch female end of a Tee I could give you options but unless you can locate a neoprene gasket that fits on the end of PVC and pushes into the bell end of a cast iron fitting a lead joint is the best solution. More questions? I'm as close as a click. Tom

I would try to make the caulk work. Even if you managed to find somebody like Tom that could do a good lead and oakum joint, I am not sure the PVC could take the heat of the lead. You might inspect the cast iron carefully for a crack. If cracked, you might have to remove the whole thing. Again, I would try caulk first.

I am trying to remember more details. Many years ago we were teeing a new drain into an old cast iron drain. We bought a rubber seal that you wet with gasoline, and quickly insert into the joint. The gasoline swells the rubber sealing the joint. It went together quickly and easily and never gave us any problem.

If you haven't gotten your leak fixed yet I have a solution for you. 1. If the cast iron joint is what we call hub and spigot the fix will be to go to a plumbing wholesaler and purchase a Ty-Seal gasket. The gasket will fit into the cast iron then all you have to do is push the pve into the gasket. Since PVC has a larger outside diameter than cast iron it will be difficult to push it together but with a little effort a some lubricant it will go. Or you could replace a shot section of the pvc with cast iron, after pushing the cast iron section into the fitting you can join the cast iron to the pvc with a nohub coupling.

I have been remodeling amy bathroom and the toilet flange was some kind of metal going into the cast iron drain pipe. I cut the metal down to the cast iron then took out the metal in the bell of the cast iorn.
PROBLEM: I cracked the bell on the cast iron when I took outh the metal. My 4 x 3" bushing didnt fit anyway, even if i wouldnt have cracked the bell.
i dont know what i need to put in the bell so it wont leak. it is 4" cast iron and I am putting 3 " pvc into the cast so I can run my drain line. Can anyone help me ? Thanks

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Originally Posted by eb brown

i have been remodeling amy bathroom and the toilet flange was some kind of metal going into the cast iron drain pipe. i cut the metal down to the cast iron then took out the metal in the bell of the cast iorn.
PROBLEM: I cracked the bell on the cast iron when i took outh the metal. my 4 x 3" bushing didnt fit anyway, even if i wouldnt have cracked the bell.
i dont know what i need to put in the bell so it wont leak. it is 4" cast iron and i am putting 3 " pvc into the cast so i can run my drain line. can anyone help me ? thanks

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Same answer my friend,

That "metal" was a lead and oakum poured lead joint that you removed. I wish you would have contacted me and I would have walked you through taking the joint out. Did you just crack the hub or is there a piece out of it? What do you mean 4 X 3 bushing. Do you mean a 4 X 3 neoprene doughnut? Because if you didn't trash the bell that's what your going to hafta use. If you did take a chunk out of the bell then I hope you have room to work because the next step will be to cut the bell off and couple a 4" Cast iron to PVC No-Hub band to the cast iron with a 4 X 3 PVC bushing on the other end to convert to 3" PVC. Let me know. Regards, Tom
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Dude,

save yourself the hassle... bust that cast iron bell out and use fernco couplers to join up your PVC to cast iron. Check fernco.com for the items you need. Home Depot or Lowe's carry these (big rubber sleves that slide over the pipe and secured with big hose clamps). The outside diameter of PVC and cast iron drain lines are identical... ie. 2 inch PVC = same size as 2 inch cast iron. You can slap on some extra PVC with a PVC adapter to make up for the cast iron bell material you take out.

Make sure you support the cast line before you take things apart and make sure to use primer and cement if you have to join up PVC to PVC.

Aclick back if that doesn't make sense.

I have 4" cast iron and will use a coupler from fernco or home depot to jooin up the 4" cast iron but what do I use on the 3" pvc im adapting to? i am going to 3" pvc. So is that where I need an adapter tommytman? Nothing is easy around this 65 year old house. While I was taking apart the bathtub I found a post card from march of 1943written from the roosevelt in new orleans. Trippy eh? It was in calligraphy.

I think fernco sells a 3 inch to 4 inch part (check their web site/give them a call). If not or if you can't wait place a 3 inch PVC to 4 inch PVC adapter or hub on your 3 inch PVC . Then use a fernco 4 inch to 4 inch to join to your cast iron.

Thank you I appriciate it

No problems. If you end up joining PVC pipe make sure you follow the directions that come with the PVC primer and cement. Once you have the cement on the parts push them together while twisting at least 1/4 turn and hold the parts together for approx. 30-60 seconds. If you don't hold the parts together they will come apart as the chemical reaction between the glue and PVC takes place.

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Originally Posted by tommytman

Dude,

save yourself the hassle....bust that cast iron bell out and use fernco couplers to join up your PVC to cast iron. Check fernco.com for the items you need. Home Depot or Lowes carry these (big rubber sleves that slide over the pipe and secured with big hose clamps). The outside diameter of PVC and cast iron drain lines are identical...ie. 2 inch PVC = same size as 2 inch cast iron. You can slap on some extra PVC with a PVC adapter to make up for the cast iron bell material you take out.

Make sure you support the cast line before you take things apart and make sure to use primer and cement if you have to join up PVC to PVC.

Aclick back if that doesn't make sense.

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The problem with using a Fernco Neoprene Coupling on a vertical piece of pipe is that they aren't ridgid and won't steady a vertical raiser like a No-Hub Band will. While Tommys way will work mine will be the steadest. This raiser will stub up to a closet flange and the last thing you want is a joint that "floats". With a NO-Hub Band you can couple to the cast iron pipe with one end and convert to 3" PVC with the other. Your call. Tom

If you're absolutely intent on keeping that old cast iron soil pipe you could always pack some "pc4" into the joint. It's the some what modern method of joining used when repairing or maintaining old hub and spigot pipe. It's basically hemp and portland cement, all you have to do is moisten it and pack it into the joint(s).
It can be found at most plumbing supply stores.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theBigkill

if youre absolutely intent on keeping that old cast iron soil pipe you could always pack some "pc4" into the joint. its the some what modern method of joining used when repairing or maintaining old hub and spigot pipe. it's basically hemp and portland cement, all you have to do is moisten it and pack it into the joint(s).
it can be found at most plumbing supply stores.

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Sorry Big Kill,
Not a good idea! You're caulking a bell and spigot joint with cement. We used to do that when we connected a house sewer to a street raiser.
However over the years the cement begain to shrink allowing roots to find their way past the crack. So we begain to use neoprene gaskets instead.
Regards, Tom