I went to Home Depot and the plumber said for Hot Mop shower use cast iron, for membrane use plastic.
I had a new tile shower put in this July and since I found 22 problems with it I had an expert witness tile man look at it and removed some tile and mortar and found weep holes clogged with mortar, I went to Home Depot to see what a drain looked like.
Guy there said for hot mop use cast iron, for membrane use plastic drain
Is this right?

Hi Gail,
Are you removing the old shower and rebuilding a custom tile shower from scratch? Is this on a cement slab?
You describe a flange type shower drain,(see image) what type of shower pan did the old installation have? What type drainage pipes do you have? Cast iron? PVC? Come back with more details. Regards, tom

Thanks for your reply,
It was a fiberglass one piece 3x3 shower for 35 years. In July 2009 removed it down to studs, put in absolutely awful tile shower (sueing them, ) with hot mop and plastic drain(with weep holes clogged with mortar, mortar no grid, tiles on mortar and on drywall--those on drywall are already falling off, tiles set on air--only connected to next tile with a little thinset, sliver tiles, floor lower than drain etc. etc, I could have done better myself, and have done so 30 years ago, but not a shower), trying to figure out what to put in specs for the next contractor(I now know to specify ANSI standards and supply a tile layout). Will remove this mess down to studs again to do the job. The drains are way down in dirt cannot tell but think plastic, won't know until this mess is torn out.
gailquilter


Oh, yes concrete slab but a 20" hole around the drain, building inspector told them to put in dirt then 4" of concrete, they refused, that's when I should have told them to get out and call the police.
So the fiberglass shower finally broke (5" crack near drain) and I decided to get the ugly thing outta here. What I got was worse, overcut L-shaped tiles, miters off from corners, twisted tiles, grout ranging from nothing to 3/8" so how do you grout between tiles which are touching? I have checked out about 15 tile books from the library and read, read, read. I Would expect black mold within months. Mortar walls not plumb, but the drywall next to mortar is plumb, quarterround set FLAT against wall, walls not perpendicular, walls below floor rather than floor under walls, tile around toilet not same level, expecting that puppy to rock. Tile set on drywall MUD. 1" along one wall when tile is 12".
They wanted to grout 5 minutes after setting tile. Where would all that moisture go? Into the bellies of mold spores I guess. Then they wanted to grout and seal and install toilet and tear out second bathroom same day. Huh? No toilet or shower for weeks that way.
I wouldn't let them grout they got sarcastic and said 'If you wish" I said "NO, ACCORDING TO THE THINSET MANUFACTURER"
25 things wrong with shower and 8 more with the 9 other little projects around here.
gailquilter

Okay. Basics.

The drain for a tile shower is what speedball posted above. Hot mop doesn't mean much, existing drain/pipes etc. do mean more.

If you are building a dry deck mud pan from scratch, there are plenty of better methods. It's on slab, so are you going to start from scratch completely? Sounds like you should.

You do not need to hot mop when building this pan. Please post back with demensions and I can assist if you need help.

When building your pan, it can be tricky. If it's a brand new build, you may want to consider the Kerdi method. They have preformed trays, but I still do the old fashioned mud bed for many installs for "on slab" work.

Plan were your drain is, how it will be centered. Do not install and glue until you need to plan this all out first, or your drain can be too low, or too high. Having a proper slop is very important.

If you plan not to do a tiled floor, please state that. Even if you have an opening under the shower pan of a preformed/fiberglass floor, it should be supported, and they are ways to do that as well.

Quote:

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concrete slab but a 20" hole around the drain, building inspector told them to put in dirt then 4" of concrete, they refused,

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What you had was a tub dap-out.
The inspector was correct. To convert to a shower you extend the trap raiser a few inches over the pour and cement and patch the hole. I hope the hole has been filled and patched by now. Answer Cybers questions and get back to us. We can give you directions on panning out \your shower. If the dimensions fit a Kerdi System ,(see image)is the way to go. Good luck, Tom

the new contractor will put in the concrete and center the drain. The shower is 3x3, a tiny one, almost minimum for code. They do hot mop here.
This guy could see the errors, they are obvious. And he showed me a few I hadn't noticed. Like the plumbing was set to wrong depth for tile.
I will specify 1/2" slope, standard here. Also the porcelin tile was ceramic and just sucks in the moisture, a drop or two disappears in a split second, the floor and the bath floor don't. The wall tile is also much lighter. So any moisture would wick up high. and go into the wallboard which was not taped.
I will be putting in the new wallboard(about 10" wide floor to ceiling) and the missing stud behind it, and eliminating the quarter round, this guy does an excellent job of grouting the edge of regular tile, I wouldn't have believed it but I saw it. No, not bullnose but looked great.. and I'm picky.

I am wondering if I am capable of screwing two pieces of wallboard to one stud, that only allows 3/4" for each board. I may add a stud to the existing one as well as the missing one. I got a tool for furniture which will allow me to drill a hole at the end of the studs like toenailing but I'll use screws I worry about banging around the wall. It has suffered enough damage from the contractor, when they removed the fiberglass they cut out into the three surrounding rooms and all that had to be patched and mudded.
There is a diagonal brace and I have to router out grooves on the new studs, and of course they cannot go in as one piece, but sistered should be OK. One will need a patch. That's a lot of support for my little attic up there. But hey, for the price of studs I'll do it. My car will hold ONE 8' piece of lumber and trunk closes. Honda Fit. My truck. More than one 8-footer or anything longer I have to tie the lid down using the windshield washer, I don't like that.

Kerdi depends on the contractor, I don't want him doing anything he is not familiar with.
Also having no luck getting estimates from other contractors, do I need 3 for arbitration?
There is more work to be done now than there was originally, they did damage.

Okay, I am trying understand.

Two different bathrooms? You state one is tiled, and one had an enclosure?

Tiled shower base; 1/4 (or a bit more) inch per foot for slope to drain.

"Wallboard" for tiled shower or enclosure? Please explain.

If you use Cement board, it should have a waterproof membrane applied for the best waterproofing standards.
Cement board (any kind) may not break down from water, but it is not water proof. How is the shower pan being built? (very important).

I feel like you are going from one project to another between two different bathrooms, is this correct?

No, one bathroom. The old shower was fiberglass, it came out in July, and this tile mess was put in. Next to the mortar is drywall for the rest of the bathroom. The mortar is where there used to be fiberglass and it ends at the end of the tile, just outside the shower door.
The new shower has to come out because the mortar bed is not reinforced, the underlayment is loose sand in the center (20" circle), and mortar was forced into the weep holes so much you can see it going down the drain. Also where walls meet floor there is no gap for caulking. If I put caulk outside it will get washed off by normal cleaning, not to mention this is Long Beach and the first earthquake will mess up whatever gets put there. I wanted 1/4" space for flexible grout or caulk because of movement there.
The drywall next to the mortar is a continuation of the wall and will merely be painted and with a wallpaper border.
Maybe this will help, the room is 8'x3' the shower being the 3x3' on one end.


I checked the Calif building code on Tuesday, cast iron MAY be used for 6" or more ABOVE grade, plastic to be used below 6". Above grade can also use plastic. So Home Depot is not the place for expert advice. Cast Iron rusts.
gailquilter

Not sure about HD. Sometimes they have real plumbers, some do not.

Anyway. The shower. Did the tile come down before the floor was laid?
We don't have to have a movement joint at that point - grout and caulk is fine, but if there is not a space from the floor up to the first row of tiles on the wall, you can have craking - ah as in earthquakes.

Sand? I am confused. Dry deck mud looks like sand. If there is a 20" hole around the drain, how did they cement the weep holes? I am just not clear - that's all.

If you have a mud shower floor, then that hole should have been covered up just prior to laying tar/or plastic, then we float our fiirst coarse. Sometimes (depending on what I am using for water proofing) I will use a slurry of thinset to bond the 1st coarse to the slab. Then lay my liner and go up the walls at about 16 inches up. Then I do my second coarse. All this is sloped properly. Let me know how you are going to do your build your pan. If you tear the whole thing out - I will point you some things that may be easier.

Not sure what you mean by mud, sand is loose, I poked a hole and probed with ice pick after expert was done there, I want to show it to the building inspector so I will cut out a chunk.

Under old fiberglass was concrete with big hole around drain 1 1/2 feet deep 1 1/2 feet across. They put in dirt then sand
Then without sloping before hot mop they hot mopped, this was sloped
Then mortar--bag said mortar
Then thinset
Then shower wall tile
Then shower floor tile

Then bath floor
Then dam on top of floors, touching tightly with thinset oozing out
TCA Handbood shows floor in first then space then tile the walls
OR do the walls right and insert floor tile in the space(harder I think) all I saw was the diagram
I wouldn't let them grout the same day because I'd heard it needs to cure and evaporate

Weep holes clogged during the mortar step
Walls meet floor, tight joints cannot even get a business card in there.
I think in an earthquake with movement some tile would break
Floor under walls some places, floor stops short of walls some places inconsistent
Remember Long Beach is the home of a well known large earthquake some years back. Still getting them.

NEW Contractor will be doing work, he has a shower in his showroom, absolutely beautiful work. He has been most helpful, telling me to give old guys another chance (law on this) and his contract states no extra pre payments, it is illegal, that's how I found that out.

I now have to wait for Calif License Board to send out construction expert witness for all the other problems no related to shower and to look at the shower. He should be able advis me to fix with new people, or wait for arbitration.
Complete lack of confidence, 5 months without that bathroom.

Here we are about two months later. Expert tile man documented many ansi standard violations. I found 4 Calif. Building code violations in the shower floor. Had building inspector come out and I showed him empty space under hot mop, used a level to show tile lower than drain, showed no pebbles aroung weep holes, showed mortar coming out of weep holes and dribbling down drain. Showed him highlighted pages from the code book, so he wrote them up. Later found another code violation, the dam was soooooo wide the shower was too small to meet code. Next time a narrower dam, about 3 inches narrower will make the floor 32 inches, code requires 30.
Contractor wanted $3000 more. After hearing from License Board they wanted to give me 1490. After hearing from bond company they said get 3 estimates and they would pay the one I choos.